BA and 9th Ed

[smileyjim]

I get that but we are talking about a game, you have to nudge players to use units a certain way and SG sitting on aback objective is just kinda sad.

 

Regardless though there is many ways to make units obsec so it doesn't really matter. Id actually argue for removing all those abilities, at least from space marines

[Charlo]

I get that but we are talking about a game, you have to nudge players to use units a certain way and SG sitting on aback objective is just kinda sad.

 

Regardless though there is many ways to make units obsec so it doesn't really matter. Id actually argue for removing all those abilities, at least from space marines

 

You'd..... remove obj sec from marines?!

[Warhead01]

 

I get that but we are talking about a game, you have to nudge players to use units a certain way and SG sitting on aback objective is just kinda sad.

 

Regardless though there is many ways to make units obsec so it doesn't really matter. Id actually argue for removing all those abilities, at least from space marines

 

You'd..... remove obj sec from marines?!

 

I guess the question is would it matter. 

In any SM vs any SM games it would be even play.

In SM vs any other codex the SM player would have to kill loads of enemies to take objectives. I don't know that SM's can't do that. Would seem to come down to target priority and a generous application of fire power and some planning over 5 turns. 

I don't know off the top of my head of any single model character units with Obsec that could put a cramp in that. 

 

So would removing Obsec from Space Marines really matter? 

[Indefragable]

What if the objective is the enemy’s throat?

 

TAKE IT

[smileyjim]

No id keep trooos as obsec, id removes any other way to get it. Its not like marines are struggling at all. I'm not going to like it but I won't be surprised if the raise points on SG

[Thoridon]

I wonder if it would be better to get rid of Ob Sec across the game and simply have it count as whoever has most active wounds next to an objective. Got a full health 24 wound Knight standing on one? Congrats, the objective is now yours and not given to those 6 Guardsmen about to be crushed. Got a Knight that's crippled, leaking oil and bits falling off with 4 wounds remaining? Now those 6 Guardsmen are able to evade the knight and claim it.

 

5 Terminators would outweigh those 6 Guardsmen too.

 

There'd still be room to give certain units a boost to their count but the way it is there are often times where you just think it makes no sense who's getting points for an objective.

[Karhedron]

I quite like ObjSec as it gives Troops a clear role in the game against more exotic choices available in other force org slots. We are all familiar with the term "Troop tax" from older editions but now we actually have a reason to take more than the bare minimum number of Troop units required by a particular Detachment.

Marines are probably spoiled for choice in the Troop department. Spare a thought for poor Eldar whose toughest Troop units are about as resilient as a wet paper bag. 

[The Unseen]

I like that troops are obsec.

Yeah, those 6 guardsmen aren't going to live long vs a full health knight, but narratively though could easily accomplish something important (vox a message, rig up explosives, drop a beacon, etc) before the knight has time to find and squish them all with its big awkward feet.

 

I do think though that units should really count wounds though. Maybe not all of them in the case of big vehicles, but something.

I would say for infantry, bikes, cavalry you could do straight wounds. Vehicles maybe less than 10 is 5, more than 10 is 10.

Give those degrading tanks some oomph for holding objectives.

 

And bring back that objectives are impassible terrain, knights standing on it and preventing you from reaching it until the knight, or other similarly large model is dead just feels gamey. Narratively it makes sense, presumably something important is there, you wouldn't just run over whatever it is with a land raider and then expect it to still be valuable.

 

Having to go around big models to reach it is fine, being physically unable to reach it because a models base covers the objective and all 3" around it is dumb.

[Karhedron]

The Knight base is only 2" from edge to centre on the narrow axis. This means it is impossible to keep models 3" from the Objective if they are willing to risk engaging in melee. A Baneblade of similar SHV might work.

[Jolemai]

Make sure the tournament/whatever has 3D objectives, problem solved. If it's coins, tokens, etc, then it needs a ruling.

Sort of thing you agree with your opponent beforehand. tbf though, as you're supposed to measure from the edge of the objective, you can't see that if there's a model parked on top of it.

[keeblerartillery]

So I just got absolutely steamrolled by black templars. It was my first game of ninth, so makes sense to an extent, but dear lord. Outriders and assault intercessors were very underwhelming. Dante was really the only bright spot

[SnorriSnorrison]

So I just got absolutely steamrolled by black templars. It was my first game of ninth, so makes sense to an extent, but dear lord. Outriders and assault intercessors were very underwhelming. Dante was really the only bright spot

Care to elaborate a bit on that game? Did the Templar player just bring a whole lot of Eradicators? :)

[Thoridon]

The thing with assault intercessors is they have nothing devastating weapon-wise. They’re another version of basic infantry killers and see their effectiveness rapidly drop off when facing anything with good armour the same as any other chainsword wielding unit. They then lack the extra mobility of DC or VV with jump packs.

 

They might shine one game where they get change to charge into big packs of basic infantry and then really struggle the next game if you’re up against elite units more spread out.

 

The advantage they have over DC / VV is using a troop slot, though the value of that is arguable somewhat lesser in 9th as we don’t need to fill out bigger detachments to gain CP. It leaves objective taking/holding as their bonus, so if you’re not using them for that there are other units that will kill more effectively.

[smileyjim]

I've found opponents really worry about assault intercessors which is great as they will leave other things alone.

 

I've a question for you chaps. What about the following captain,

Captain 85

Jumpack 25

Xenophase sword 10 NO INVUN SAVE

Storm shield 10

Imperiums sword WLT +1A +1S

Shield eternal relic- 5+++

 

the idea is basicly about using that sword to prevent all invun saves, it only does 1 damage but you'd have x6 S6 attacks on the charge, 7 with super doctrine hitting on 2s wounding almost everything on 2s.

 

Negating the ++ saves is pretty cool while keeping yours intact though the damage isn't great. Maybe if we get our +1 damage trait back?

[Karhedron]

I think the Xenophase sword is Deathwatch only.

 

I think the Relic blade is a good choice for the Captain. +3S, Ap-3 and 2D is pretty good for 10 points. Granted he is not Captain Smash with a Hammer but he don't swing it like he used to.

 

I think we still have the +1D "Master Crafted" relic so we can stack that the "Imperium's Sword" WLT for an S8 Ap-3 3D with 5 attacks. Not too shabbby.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Karhedron

[SnorriSnorrison]

Yeah xenophase is only for Death Watch.

 

I’ve toyes around with a similar build the Karhedron mentioned, the relic blade seems to be the go-to until/if we might get access to Hammer of Baal again. Hammers that ignore the -1 to hit are very strong on Captains now since their re-rolls don’t affect them anymore.

 

I’m more intrigued by a Master of Sanctity though. He can drop in turn two with any unit, use commanding oratory and kick off the Canticle of Hate for either Terminators or any other unit that might need the +2 to charge range.

[smileyjim]

yeah good point guys I missed the deathwatch bit.

My backup was teeth of terra but relic blade is good too. Thing with BA is our +1 to hit means we dont need a hammer unless you want to hunt knights and we would still be hitting on 4s

[SnorriSnorrison]

yeah good point guys I missed the deathwatch bit.

My backup was teeth of terra but relic blade is good too. Thing with BA is our +1 to hit means we dont need a hammer unless you want to hunt knights and we would still be hitting on 4s

Edit all references to the word “hit” and replace it with “wound” and I’m inclined to agree. :)

[keeblerartillery]

So he DID bring a bunch of eradicators but a couple of things were key. A) a huge blob of assault termies. B) devout push and fervor (bubbles get +3 inches) so a judiciar with the vox relic had a 9 inch bubble running with them and bladeguard. Plus a Levi with dual storm cannons. It was just filthy.

[Karhedron]

The Judiciar doesn't have a bubble exactly. His Tempormortis has a range of 6" (or 9" with the Vox) but still only affects 1 unit. Can I take it from the filthiness of the list that victory was not your?

[keeblerartillery]

The Judiciar doesn't have a bubble exactly. His Tempormortis has a range of 6" (or 9" with the Vox) but still only affects 1 unit. Can I take it from the filthiness of the list that victory was not your?

That cheater mc chest face!! (Lol he steamrolled me with or without that)

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

So there was some doubt about chapter specific primaris units being released this year...well the wolves just got a their own unique unit, so I think we still have hope for an all new unit or a primaris kit for something like SG before Christmas.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Also darkness in the blood is being rereleased

[Jolemai]

Imperial Armour Compendium is out on Friday :D

[smileyjim]

I thought death guard where coming, can't wait to see what they will do with chaos