SkimaskMohawk Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Big thing to remember is that additional point changes are coming in February. So uh, don't worry too much about the points. Especially since at most the competitive lists went up 40 points lol. So gw might seem incredibly out of touch, and they are, but we get to see if it's a bad read of the meta and print material delays, or a Nottingham brit-bubble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5787638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) which begs the question of why even having these kinds of printed point updates, but hey, they can correct stuff later!Anyways, got stomped in my first 2k game against deathguard. Nothing like seeing a 303pt veteran squad bouncing off two mephrit crawlers because your dice betrayed you and getting tabled as a result! this was probably a fluke or really bad dice rolls, but I was way too aggressive with my army engaging the DG in the center and not waiting.Also, Chaos spawn HURT. killed my captain, finished off my vets, almost killed my redemptor.... yea, they are target number one next time. didn't get litany of hate when it mattered either, and my LRC was crippled turn 1 when my opponent went first, so overall my list got countered by his. The guy is a tourney vet so I kinda expected this, but I think I need to be more careful with my how aggressive I am . Edited January 24, 2022 by Tiger9gamer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5787700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 It is beyond astonishing to me that Space Marines get several popular-model nerfs (Bike Chappy, Dreads) when Space Marines aren't placing, but of the big 4, both Drukhari and AdMech make it through unscathed. Anyway, going to local tourney saturday. This is before the latest points changes take affect, so I'm bringing: Helbrecht Biker Chappy (divine protection, remorseless persecution, hate), MoS, T-Bones, Wise Orator Primaris Lt. 5 Ints 10 Ints (auto bolt rifles) 15 Pr. Crusader 3x red dreads (MPI, 2x SB, IRP, OGC) 1 relic contemptor dread (2x twin volkerite helverins, cyclone) 5x BGV (heinman, feast, sword of judgment) Pr. Apothecary (aurilian shroud) 1998 pts / 8 starting cp's 4 characters 35 infantry 4 dreadnoughts thoughts? Tiger9gamer, Khornestar and BLACK BLΠFLY 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 I'd say we're a way off a Pyreblaster barbecue yet but we're on the road to this getting heated, brothers. Let us remember the true foe is the xenos. i would bet, GW will not change the point costs for that weapon. (and even for 5 points the weapon is pretty garbage). I've run 4 in a 20 man a few times: it's hilarious. Advance + bbq at 15" or hit them with 4d6 auto hits on overwatch. Remember they're ap2 in tactical doctrine as well. remember that all armies kill your unit before you will do anything with it. I do not play BT competitive anymore because they are too weak. And the most funny thing is a quote which always be in 40k "some things will never change". Its so funny that the Tau comes out with that stupid strong codex which everyone fears but the Eldar codex will be the perfect counter and even stronger against everything else. Should compare Banshees to our sword brethren. Its a joke. More movement, no overwatch, -1 to hit, +1 to wound, inbuild "fight last", advance and charge and that all for 4 PL (wich is cheapter then our cheapest troop choice) .... And then they have buffs, great transports too, new miracle dice ... I am so sad how BAD this chapter approved was. Marines are so trashtier right now... And sorry for everyone who like to play gladiators ( do it, have fun) --- but in terms of competitve play they are changed from super trash tier into trash tier and everything else is even higher in points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) It is beyond astonishing to me that Space Marines get several popular-model nerfs (Bike Chappy, Dreads) when Space Marines aren't placing, but of the big 4, both Drukhari and AdMech make it through unscathed. Anyway, going to local tourney saturday. This is before the latest points changes take affect, so I'm bringing: Helbrecht Biker Chappy (divine protection, remorseless persecution, hate), MoS, T-Bones, Wise Orator Primaris Lt. 5 Ints 10 Ints (auto bolt rifles) 15 Pr. Crusader 3x red dreads (MPI, 2x SB, IRP, OGC) 1 relic contemptor dread (2x twin volkerite helverins, cyclone) 5x BGV (heinman, feast, sword of judgment) Pr. Apothecary (aurilian shroud) 1998 pts / 8 starting cp's 4 characters 35 infantry 4 dreadnoughts thoughts? Well, templars have been winning events with redemptors and bike chaplains, so they're certainly arguable in being a bit too good. As to your list, I feel that it's a little too heavy on elite units to go the route of Aurelian shroud and larger troop choices. My list in comparison has 31 infantry, but there's 6 blade guard and 7 thss termies. If you do want to go heavy on the infantry, I'd recommend dropping a redemptor and the Lt (his aura can be used by a dread). Bulk up the infantry presence and add another chaplain; make one the tank and one the actual caster. I do not play BT competitive anymore because they are too weak. But they win and place far, far more than before. They're one of the most highly rated factions in the game outside of the Dark Eldar tier. Glad I wasted my time compiling that list of wins and placings a page ago. Edited January 24, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk Tiger9gamer, Sword Brother Adelard and Urkh 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Thanks for the feedback, Skimask. I have some question though - -are you running Aurelian Shroud on your list? If you got 31 infantry models, and 13 of them (BGV and THSS Terms) already have 4+ invuln, that means you only have 18 infantry models benefitting from the Shroud. I have 30 infantry models in my list. (plus the lt and apoth if I should feel the need to deploy them in such a way that they can actually be shot). I honestly can't think of how much else one might need to run to benefit from the Shroud. Eradicators? Devastators? Also, thought about swapping out Lt/Chaplain. Problem was that WotA costs a CP, and I'm already only starting at 8. But I might go back. So if you were going to do it, would you go: biker chap, t-bones, iron resolve (self buffing littany) foot chap, MoS, Wise Orator (divine prot, remorseless persecution)? Edited January 24, 2022 by 9x19 Parabellum Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Thanks for the feedback, Skimask. I have some question though - -are you running Aurelian Shroud on your list? If you got 31 infantry models, and 13 of them (BGV and THSS Terms) already have 4+ invuln, that means you only have 18 infantry models benefitting from the Shroud. I have 30 infantry models in my list. (plus the lt and apoth if I should feel the need to deploy them in such a way that they can actually be shot). I honestly can't think of how much else one might need to run to benefit from the Shroud. Eradicators? Devastators? Also, thought about swapping out Lt/Chaplain. Problem was that WotA costs a CP, and I'm already only starting at 8. But I might go back. So if you were going to do it, would you go: biker chap, t-bones, iron resolve (self buffing littany) foot chap, MoS, Wise Orator (divine prot, remorseless persecution)? No, I don't run it. Shroud sees play/ competitive success in lists with 42+ crusaders (usually in units of 14 to max out on the cheaper neophyte profile). Stuff like eradicators are placed behind ruin walls and then pushed up the board as the range is pretty small. My lists usually sit at 8 starting CP as well and I haven't felt a big drain. I think it's easy to use push too much and drain your CP while also leaving you out of the bubbles for command phase buffs. My main spending point is Bombastic really. Push, Obsec, Wisdom, Transhuman, etc... are all reactionary and the better you position, the less you have to spend on most of those. For double chaplain, I actually tend to give my bike chaplain rites of war so he can really help snag objectives. My foot chaplain doesn't get a Trait, but does get ancient breviary so he can reliably cast. 5++ and +1 attack, but that's kind of interchangeable with mortal wounds. 9x19 Parabellum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 WBCharges/HI = reroll hits5+++ vs MWWhen using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) thats the rumors about the CSM Word Bearers. They have 3 abilities as their legion traits (Chapter tactic). I hope we will get something new next to our current ones. The first one would be exact what I would really LOVE to see. If we would get that then I would love our supplement. Rerolling hits in close combat was THE mechanic which I loved back then in 5th edition for my BTs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 but maybe i am too excited and then I will hate the new rules when they are released. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) half year then there will be a new Marines Codex. And of course Marines will be stronger then before. And of course they will be close to Chaos Marines. It would be soooo nice to have similar rules. But instead of 3MW we still have reroll charges. This would give us everything we need. the coolest, best buff for close combat, with 5++ and 5+++ the best durability and with reroll charges the reability to reach combat. New points or better rules for Impulsors and I have everything I ever wanted. regardless - i am hyped Edited January 24, 2022 by Medjugorje Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Can't wait for you to play new word bearers and call them garbage too as they're performing well in tournament. Or call them great when they place twice a year in 4th. Crimson cowboy and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) I'm sorry why are we talking about heretics in the BT forum? The only time they should be brought up is when talking about killing them.Anyways, I am trying to determine what would be the best unit that I have currently available and own (no buying new things) to replace my LRC with. I got 2 or 3 landspeeder Typhoons, 2 attack bikes a bunch more primaris crusaders, and an impulsor and bladeguard unit. I feel I don't have enough anti-tank, so maybe I should go for 2 typhoons? Edited January 24, 2022 by Tiger9gamer Khornestar, BLACK BLΠFLY and CrystalSeer 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Redemptor Dreads with Macro plasma incinerators. Venerable Dreads with Las cannon / missile launcher. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Redemptor Dreads with Macro plasma incinerators. Venerable Dreads with Las cannon / missile launcher. as I said, I am looking for something that I already own atm, as money is very tight, and I listed what I already owned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I'm sorry why are we talking about heretics in the BT forum? The only time they should be brought up is when talking about killing them. Anyways, I am trying to determine what would be the best unit that I have currently available and own (no buying new things) to replace my LRC with. I got 2 or 3 landspeeder Typhoons, 2 attack bikes a bunch more primaris crusaders, and an impulsor and bladeguard unit. I feel I don't have enough anti-tank, so maybe I should go for 2 typhoons? If those attack bikes have multimeltas, go for them. You can get 2 for almost the cost of 1 typhoon. BLACK BLΠFLY and Tiger9gamer 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 "Primaris lieutenant" is a boring meme. A walking chaplain with extra litanies is almost always better in that slot for BT. If you want wound rerolls, activate the stratagem on redemptor could be an option. The big base is good for aura. BLACK BLΠFLY, 9x19 Parabellum and SkimaskMohawk 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I'm sorry why are we talking about heretics in the BT forum? The only time they should be brought up is when talking about killing them. Anyways, I am trying to determine what would be the best unit that I have currently available and own (no buying new things) to replace my LRC with. I got 2 or 3 landspeeder Typhoons, 2 attack bikes a bunch more primaris crusaders, and an impulsor and bladeguard unit. I feel I don't have enough anti-tank, so maybe I should go for 2 typhoons? If those attack bikes have multimeltas, go for them. You can get 2 for almost the cost of 1 typhoon. actually if I pay for multi-meltas on typhoons, then two attack bikes equal 1 typhoon. Only thing I would be trading is frag missiles and range, really. I think I may go for attack bikes to start out, and take one typhoon? I also have a second vindicator that I have to strip the paint from, but I could use that as well for a complete heavily armored list Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 The real kicker is core allowing to gift rerolls, strats, and prayers. They also have some light chaf clearing from storm bolter+melee and can take the grenade. Tiger9gamer 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 "Primaris lieutenant" is a boring meme. A walking chaplain with extra litanies is almost always better in that slot for BT. If you want wound rerolls, activate the stratagem on redemptor could be an option. The big base is good for aura. Agreed, except I have to pay a CP for that strat. And I can still do it, even with a Lt., to get extra coverage. Still, I think you guys have convinced me. Tiger9gamer 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 hey, I am going to use a lieutenant when I drop my LRC for VVets with jump packs. Apothecary just can't keep up, so I gotta rely on Divine protection. Going to give him the crusaders helm too. The real kicker is core allowing to gift rerolls, strats, and prayers. They also have some light chaf clearing from storm bolter+melee and can take the grenade. oh yea, that's right... I may just get more attack bikes. I really do want to have a full on templar blitzkrieg, but all the tanks don't really seem to good still. Maybe sometime I could do it for fun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Do attack bikes really receive much for being core in a BT army? BT don't have tools like ravenwing bike apothecary. You may often need to move attack bikes out of reach of buffing heroes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Do attack bikes really receive much for being core in a BT army? BT don't have tools like ravenwing bike apothecary. You may often need to move attack bikes out of reach of buffing heroes. Well you can deploy them close to pick up full reroll and then move them out on their own. You can then use push and obsec to snatch objectives due to core. And if you have to play them a little tighter to your clump, then all the buffs and auras can be leveraged. Tiger9gamer and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) It is beyond astonishing to me that Space Marines get several popular-model nerfs (Bike Chappy, Dreads) when Space Marines aren't placing, but of the big 4, both Drukhari and AdMech make it through unscathed. Anyway, going to local tourney saturday. This is before the latest points changes take affect, so I'm bringing: Helbrecht Biker Chappy (divine protection, remorseless persecution, hate), MoS, T-Bones, Wise Orator Primaris Lt. 5 Ints 10 Ints (auto bolt rifles) 15 Pr. Crusader 3x red dreads (MPI, 2x SB, IRP, OGC) 1 relic contemptor dread (2x twin volkerite helverins, cyclone) 5x BGV (heinman, feast, sword of judgment) Pr. Apothecary (aurilian shroud) 1998 pts / 8 starting cp's 4 characters 35 infantry 4 dreadnoughts thoughts? good luck vs vehicles Edited January 25, 2022 by noigrim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 11 macro plasma incinerator shots per turn should do fine if someone has the temerity to bring a vehicle. I'm far more worried about custodes jetbikes. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5788581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) Speaking of lists, I may be getting a leviathan dread this weekend. While not the best I am trying to play in a more casual setting, so I came up with this list. Kinda stuck with WYSIWYG so leviathan load out will stick ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [100 PL, 1,978pts, 6CP] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Chapter Selection: Black Templars Detachment Command Cost Gametype: Matched + Stratagems + Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics Captain [6 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: Tannhauser's Bones, Jump Pack, Master of Arms, Storm shield, Stratagem: Heir of Sigismund, The Imperium's Sword, Thunder hammer, Warlord Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, 150pts, -1CP]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 5. Fervent Acclamation, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Adamantine Mantle, Wise Orator Crusader Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power axe . Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power axe Crusader Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power sword . Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power sword Crusader Squad [6 PL, 115pts]: Bones of Mordred . 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power axe . Sword Brother: 2x Lightning Claw Crusader Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power axe . Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power axe Leviathan Dreadnought [13 PL, 220pts, -1CP]: 2x Heavy Flamers, Grav-flux bombard . Leviathan siege claw Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 190pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon Vanguard Veteran Squad [15 PL, 333pts, -1CP]: Fist of Balthus, Jump Pack . Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer . Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Power fist, Storm shield, Stratagem: Champion of the Feast Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 140pts]: Multi-melta . Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter Land Speeder Typhoons [6 PL, 110pts]: Land Speeder Typhoon Vindicator [7 PL, 140pts]: Vindicator siege shield Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Storm bolter Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Storm bolter ++ Total: [100 PL, 6CP, 1,998pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Edited January 26, 2022 by Tiger9gamer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/103/#findComment-5789088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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