Tokugawa Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 LVO Swiss rounds finished. No marine players entered top8. There are 27 BT players in total,1 got 5-1 and 5 got 4-2. Here is the 5-1 list. Worth to notice, he get 500 VPs in his 5 victory games. ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [108 PL, 1,999pts, 9CP] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Chapter Selection: Black Templars Detachment Command Cost + Stratagems + Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics + HQ + Chaplain Grimaldus [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 4. Fires of Devotion, Epitome of Piety, Litany of Hate, Warlord High Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 160pts] Primaris Chaplain [5 PL, 85pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Litany of Hate, The Crusader's Helm + Troops + Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts] . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . Incursor Sergeant Primaris Crusader Squad [20 PL, 247pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword . 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol . 8x Primaris Neophytes: 8x Frag & Krak grenades . Primaris Sword Brother: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword Primaris Crusader Squad [20 PL, 247pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword . 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol . 8x Primaris Neophytes: 8x Frag & Krak grenades . Primaris Sword Brother: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword + Elites + Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, 115pts, -1CP]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Aurillian Shroud Servitors [2 PL, 30pts]: 4x Servo-arm + Fast Attack + Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts] . Attack Bike: Multi-melta . Attack Bike: Multi-melta . Attack Bike: Multi-melta Inceptor Squad [15 PL, 375pts]: Icon of Heinmann, 5x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2 + Heavy Support + Eradicator Squad [15 PL, 315pts, -1CP]: Heavy melta rifle, The Crux Obsidian . 5x Eradicator: 5x Bolt pistol . Eradicator Sgt: Stratagem: Champion of the Feast ++ Total: [108 PL, 1,999pts, 9CP] ++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) man, what difference 55 points make! I picked up my Leviathan today and used that instead of my LRC straight away in a game against admech. That thing is a damn monster! killed 6 breaches, a plane, a ranger squad, a robot and a dominus. that thing is pretty good, and probably will remain a mainstay for a few more games. Unfortunately the odd ones out this game were my rhino crusaders, my venerable dread, and my poor, poor vindicator... Also holy crap is oath of moments a good secondary. Edited January 30, 2022 by Tiger9gamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) So I got 2nd in a 10 man local tourney today. Here's the best coast pairings link: https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/eventlanding/2t0t0vfv?embed=false&fbclid=IwAR1vVZ014x7q1w0IU-eKoFrd9jaMI4zBgjCY5jZx0Mak2l_tf49XpmgQj1I Game 1 vs. Necrons: Tabled him, final score like 100-31 Game 2 vs. Custodes: Got tabled turn 4. Final score something like 26-96. Seriously... :cuss custodes. Game 3 vs. Harlies: Opponent conceded turn 3. Final score something like 94-35. The games vs. Necrons and Harlies were like playing on easy mode vs. Custodes. I can't even begin to describe how unfun Custodes are to play against. My list was: *Biker Chappy - Master Sanc, TBones, Wise Orator. Littany Div. Prot, Psalm of Remoreseless Persecution. Helbrecht 5 Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifle 10 Intercessors with Auto bolt rifle and 2x Grenade Launchers 15 Crusader Squad (1 SB, 10 Inits, 4 Neos, 1 Power Sword) 3x Red Dreads (MPI, IRP, 2x SB, OGC) 1 Apothecary - Chief Apoth, Aurillian Shroud, Selfless Healer 5 Blade Guard Vets - Champ of Feasts, Sword of Judgement, Icon of Heinman 5 Eradicators (1 multimelta, crux obsidian) 1998 points, 8 starting CP. (1 Champ of Feasts, 1 Revered Repositories, 1 Open Reliquaries, 1 Hero of the Chapter) Edited February 2, 2022 by Marshal Mattias Tiger9gamer and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofSigismund Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Loving the big crusader squads people are taking, makes me happy I got more than the bare minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Loving the big crusader squads people are taking, makes me happy I got more than the bare minimum. Lot of people are saying big squads are a blast liability but so far I haven't seen it. To be honest, I love when people are incentivized to shoot at my crusader squad because it just makes it an easier decision for me to Transhuman them, combined with Littany of Div Prot and 5++ Invuln from Uphold, they just soak up sooooooo much shooting. Tiger9gamer and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I had a game today on TTS and wanted to try out the Tom Ogden crusader spam to see if I wanted to eventually expand into it. My buddy had a 4 dreadknight + 2 demo tank commander + full payload manticore list. The cool stuff was that shroud, transhuman and the 5++ are really quite strong and a demo tank commander with 2x multi meltas and las cannon killed 5 models. That unit then almost one-rounded a grand master in combat. Unfortunately I played super risky and a couple of things didn't go my way, so the game was largely over by turn 2. If I had killed the grandmaster and piled into his tank commander and guard squad OR if I had made a 9" rerollable charge with a second crusader unit onto that guard squad and piled into the other tank commander OR if I had managed to shut down the teleport pyschic power and killed the grandmaster and piled in I would have been able to win. A combination of the first two would have been a slam dunk. But, it all failed and I was left with a rather un-buffed and strung out force. Certainly not a great list to bring against the guard components due to he huge number of high strength, high damage blasts. But it's also my buddy's go-to TTS list for competitive games and I was trying a style I wasn't used to with a few unit choices I wouldn't make again. Fun stuff, and I look forward to having a second fun style of list to make down the line. Tiger9gamer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 LVO Swiss rounds finished. No marine players entered top8. There are 27 BT players in total,1 got 5-1 and 5 got 4-2. Here is the 5-1 list. Worth to notice, he get 500 VPs in his 5 victory games. ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [108 PL, 1,999pts, 9CP] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Chapter Selection: Black Templars Detachment Command Cost + Stratagems + Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics + HQ + Chaplain Grimaldus [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 4. Fires of Devotion, Epitome of Piety, Litany of Hate, Warlord High Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 160pts] Primaris Chaplain [5 PL, 85pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Litany of Hate, The Crusader's Helm + Troops + Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts] . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . Incursor Sergeant Primaris Crusader Squad [20 PL, 247pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword . 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol . 8x Primaris Neophytes: 8x Frag & Krak grenades . Primaris Sword Brother: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword Primaris Crusader Squad [20 PL, 247pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword . 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol . 8x Primaris Neophytes: 8x Frag & Krak grenades . Primaris Sword Brother: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword + Elites + Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, 115pts, -1CP]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Aurillian Shroud Servitors [2 PL, 30pts]: 4x Servo-arm + Fast Attack + Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts] . Attack Bike: Multi-melta . Attack Bike: Multi-melta . Attack Bike: Multi-melta Inceptor Squad [15 PL, 375pts]: Icon of Heinmann, 5x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2 + Heavy Support + Eradicator Squad [15 PL, 315pts, -1CP]: Heavy melta rifle, The Crux Obsidian . 5x Eradicator: 5x Bolt pistol . Eradicator Sgt: Stratagem: Champion of the Feast ++ Total: [108 PL, 1,999pts, 9CP] ++ That is exactly what i told before... the real strong BT lists are just made from shooting units which are tough. Inceptors and Eradicators... thats not how I want to play them. Very sad in my opinion that eradictors and Inceptors are way stronger then Sword Brethren, Bladeguards or Terminators AND even stronger then Vanguard Veterans which are one of the strongest melee units for all Marines. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) LVO ... <snip> That is exactly what i told before... the real strong BT lists are just made from shooting units which are tough. Inceptors and Eradicators... thats not how I want to play them. Very sad in my opinion that eradictors and Inceptors are way stronger then Sword Brethren, Bladeguards or Terminators AND even stronger then Vanguard Veterans which are one of the strongest melee units for all Marines. More or less agree with this, with two exceptions. 1. One big unit of Crusaders (or something similar) that you can buff defensively (littany of divine protection, aurillian shroud) did and does MAJOR work for me holding the center of the board with objective secured. You want this unit to be melee centric, because it WILL get engaged in melee and you don't want ~300 pt shooting unit to get shut down by being tagged in combat. 2. Bladeguard Vets. Bladeguard Vets are a meat and potato unit. They continue to work for me in almost all situations. After that, yes, the rest of your BT force should be shooty units. Eradicators (amazing), Redemptor Dreads (Amazing), even my Intercessors with autobolt rifles did great against the appropriate targets. My BT is themed to primaris/new models only, otherwise I would include melta attack bikes and/or devastators, but they are similarly good for BT. The force I took to yesterday's game, I would argue, was very strong. Every unit did what it was supposed to do, and it made for 2 devastating games against 2 of my opponents. (I will continue to argue that Custodes are the new broken as heck army right now, and there was nothing I could do to counter them. They have a transhuman, they can shutdown rerolls, they can move units around quickly, and even BGV can only last so long against 15 attacks from Trajann (fight twice) doing 3 damage per swing. They are cheaper than ever and the sheer amount of models that my opponent put out was amazing to me. ) So I don't see my game against Custodes as a fault with BT, it's a problem with that army. Edited January 30, 2022 by 9x19 Parabellum Khornestar, Tiger9gamer and BLACK BLΠFLY 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 You’ve got to take some shooting to make a competitive list and there’s no way around that… so just cause there’s some ranged AT you can’t honestly say an army isn’t melee based. Khornestar, SkimaskMohawk and Tiger9gamer 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I know primaris are pretty much better than my firstborn by default, but I still find it really hard to start putting them together... I dunno, they almost seem boring to me. Going to try and get them ready though, but for now I am sad for it.speaking of which my firstborn are dying pretty quickly. I think I need to stop bringing four 5 man squads and start bringing 2 5 mans and 1 ten man? they need to have some more wounds in order to not die horribly. Will have to see how it works out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Aside from buffed blocks, pretty much everything dies once it's in the open. You can transhuman one squad, but usually you need to keep things hidden or in reserves/vehicles. Edited January 31, 2022 by CrystalSeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Primaris 5 men troop units die quickly, too. You will use transhuman on more valuable target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Same marine unit have different power in different chapters. Is that surprising?? Looking to the 5-1 and 4-2 BT lists in LVO, none of them bring vanvets. IIRC all the previous tops BT lists in GTs after new codex take 0 or 5 vanvet models. Is that coincidence? I don't think so. Vanvet is less important and good in BT than in some other chapters: 1, they lose advance and charge in BT; 2, 5pts shield is excellent option to make a model to 4++ from no inv save, but it generated less value when 5++ to 4++; 3, if put them in terrains when moving forward, other chapter get 1+ save while we get 2+, which made them less tough against small arms/mortar fire. Tiger9gamer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 #Tokugawa where are the LVO army listings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 You prolly can’t see them any more unless you have a paid subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Same marine unit have different power in different chapters. Is that surprising?? Looking to the 5-1 and 4-2 BT lists in LVO, none of them bring vanvets. IIRC all the previous tops BT lists in GTs after new codex take 0 or 5 vanvet models. Is that coincidence? I don't think so. Vanvet is less important and good in BT than in some other chapters: 1, they lose advance and charge in BT; 2, 5pts shield is excellent option to make a model to 4++ from no inv save, but it generated less value when 5++ to 4++; 3, if put them in terrains when moving forward, other chapter get 1+ save while we get 2+, which made them less tough against small arms/mortar fire. Honestly I am bringing VVets because of the modeling opportunities. my squad of ten with SS's survived almost a whole army shooting at them, and my Fist of belthas Feast champ killed cawl and tanked wounds. it's a nice unit regardless of having an invuln save naturally instead of with the vows. I found out after my last game I have been short changing myself attacks. I thought lightning claws only gave you an extra attack when paired, but apparently you get a +1 when you have just one. this is a nice surprise honestly. also, I think I found my favorite litany after divine protection. Fervent acclimation to get Suffer not the unclean vow on a punchy unit is pretty good if I am being honest, and it's what helped me kill cawl and some infiltrators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Aside from buffed blocks, pretty much everything dies once it's in the open. You can transhuman one squad, but usually you need to keep things hidden or in reserves/vehicles. One nice kittle thing js why firstborn crusaders with the abilith to smokescreen ks not fo be underappreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) Any changes on chapter aproved? M6 little neophyte is keeping me busy, I'm out of the loop. Edited February 1, 2022 by Sete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) Any changes on chapter aproved? M6 little neophyte is keeping me busy, I'm out of the loop. No changes to Templars directly: This is from spiky bits and is a sort of lame way of presenting this information, but the last +/- x at the end of the line is the change... Primaris chaplain on bike 115-125 +10 Redemptor Dreadnought 175-185 +10 Storm Speeder hailstrike 135-125 -10 Storm speeder hammerstrike 155-145 -10 Storm speeder thunderstrike 160-150 – 10 Centurion Devastator from 70-55 -15 Gladiator Lancer 180-165 -15 Gladiator reaper 210-195 -10 Gladiator Valiant 230-215 -10 Chief Librarian Mephiston 155-140 -15 Death Company Marines 22-20 -2 Death Company Intercessors 24-22 -2 Ravenwing 40-35 -5 Nephilim Jetfighter 190-175 -15 Ravenwing Dark Talon 210-195 -15 Wulfen 22-20 -2 (thunder hammer goes 16-10 and frost axe 8-5) Thunderwolf Cavalry 45-40 -5 Corvus Blackstar 180-165 -15 Edited February 1, 2022 by Khornestar Sete 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Any changes on chapter aproved? M6 little neophyte is keeping me busy, I'm out of the loop. No changes to Templars directly: This is from spiky bits and is a sort of lame way of presenting this information, but the last +/- x at the end of the line is the change... Primaris chaplain on bike 115-125 +10 Redemptor Dreadnought 175-185 +10 Storm Speeder hailstrike 135-125 -10 Storm speeder hammerstrike 155-145 -10 Storm speeder thunderstrike 160-150 – 10 Centurion Devastator from 70-55 -15 Gladiator Lancer 180-165 -15 Gladiator reaper 210-195 -10 Gladiator Valiant 230-215 -10 Chief Librarian Mephiston 155-140 -15 Death Company Marines 22-20 -2 Death Company Intercessors 24-22 -2 Ravenwing 40-35 -5 Nephilim Jetfighter 190-175 -15 Ravenwing Dark Talon 210-195 -15 Wulfen 22-20 -2 (thunder hammer goes 16-10 and frost axe 8-5) Thunderwolf Cavalry 45-40 -5 Corvus Blackstar 180-165 -15 I will say that at least the gladiator points drop made me somewhat interested in them. If only a little, but I still can't help but think a lasback would be better. Still, would be some cheaper anti-armor in my blitz list. Also, Has anyone tried out the landspeeders? they look... interesting at least? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 Land Speeder or Storm Speeder? The Land Speeders are great (just the normal one and the Scout transporter). The other Speeders are okay to play on normal terms but if you go a bit more into competitive lists you will be just sad - before and after point reductions. Tiger9gamer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Land Speeder or Storm Speeder? The Land Speeders are great (just the normal one and the Scout transporter). The other Speeders are okay to play on normal terms but if you go a bit more into competitive lists you will be just sad - before and after point reductions. yea, the new ones. I was looking at them just for fun, but I think that a predator may be better overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Old speeder have 2 melta shots at 70pts. New speeder have 3 melta + 2 missile shots at 145pts. I don't know whether the output of 1 new speeder is really better than 2x old speeders, but the survivability is not good as 2x old speeders. Tiger9gamer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 140 points vs 145 points 2x6 wounds vs 1x10 wounds both have same save, inv and T. 4 sthots melta vs 3 shots melta and 2 shots rocket 18" movement vs both can get the same buffs, both have fly. Land Speeder are not great but situative good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 New speeder is harder to hide but I do like it. Is it BS2 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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