BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 kSons are nothing special in melee and our 5+++ after save really hurts them a lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5799829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 only if you build an army against it. If you play a normal universal list which should work against everything ( and under strict law not to play Dreads ) then you will have a bad time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5799868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 only if you build an army against it. If you play a normal universal list which should work against everything ( and under strict law not to play Dreads ) then you will have a bad time. If you're building a competitive black templars list that leverages their strengths, you'll crush them. Those are, by definition, a universal list that has the best chances against everything. If you make a fun list with a lot of bad units, poor synergy, and no ability to shift the scarabs then it'll suck. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5799950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) What do you all think about scout bikers? I’m considering them due to the volume of shots and their mobility. Lame that they’re the same cost as regular bikers. Edited February 25, 2022 by Khornestar Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5799977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) What do you all think about scout bikers? I’m considering them due to the volume of shots and their mobility. Lame that they’re the same cost as regular bikers. GW shouting "don't buy it" as setting it W2, instead of W3. If they have W3 they may have some use. As a relatively fragile unit, scout bike need to make good trade in the first arrived turn(they could outflank). They can deliver 22 S4 shots with a 95pts squad of 3(3 twin bolters, 3 shotguns, 1 storm bolter), score 14.7 hits, with doctrine AP-1 that will kill...1.8 marines on average, or 1.2 shield drone. Not good trades. T3 W1 units are their prey, but I am afraid that most such units are not exposed(e.g. druks or TAU warriors stay in transports, GSC hide underground, Admech robemen has ridiculus early game cover save bonus) target. Edited February 26, 2022 by Tokugawa Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) Hypothetically, which vow would be best for a defensive “siege battle” game? Thinking about running a narrative game with templars holding a choke point in a wall, so I want to get the most use out of terrain. edit: it finally happened… my poor leviathan was taken down in a game. It took a chaos knight shooting a titan killing weapon at it, but Brother John fell to enemy fire! Edited February 27, 2022 by Tiger9gamer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 Hypothetically, which vow would be best for a defensive “siege battle” game? Thinking about running a narrative game with templars holding a choke point in a wall, so I want to get the most use out of terrain. edit: it finally happened… my poor leviathan was taken down in a game. It took a chaos knight shooting a titan killing weapon at it, but Brother John fell to enemy fire! never ask again^^ in each case "uphold" is the best except you are saying you want to tell a story about it. Fluffy reasons are the only ones who allow to take other vows. BLACK BLŒ FLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 It's kind of funny, because swearing to hold a point would actually be the best fluff reason for UtHotE. I could see accept any challenge as a decent runner up. BLACK BLΠFLY, Medjugorje and Tiger9gamer 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urkh Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 The best defense is a good offense. Suffer not the unclean and meet them on the battlefield! (Not serious, I don't even remember what that vow does have so little consideration for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 played with the new Eldar codex against another friend who played Black Templars. It was a desaster. I dont know what I had done against my list although my list wasnt that strong. Its really time for a new Space Marine codex or strong point drops. comparison: WL Trait BT -> +1 for advances and charges for the WL WL Trait for Harlekins -> +6 to charge and 3+d3 for advance (and movement 8 + advance and charge as core rule) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshalMittermeier Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 unfortunately you are correct about sm codex. i believe the black templars codex is good-you can take the best sm units and slap a 5++. problem is, space marine datasheets are so overcosted, even the 5++ for 0 points doesnt make them competitive. Medjugorje 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 I would rank them at top of B tier. They’ve won some GTs for sure… can’t ignore that either. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 I had a game against my TTS buddy a couple nights ago. He's the one who I tried crusader tide against a 3 dreadknight+tank commander list and lost very badly to. This time I was using my traditional 2 redemptors and 2 melee blocks of Elite units, expecting to go into Tau. Instead, it was GSC. I've played against GSC once in 8th and zero times in 9th. Not super sure what his list was as a result; it was the 6+ invul subfaction, two bricks of aberrants that could both get 5+ fnp, two units of bikes a car with a mining laser, a unit with drills and then seismic cannon squads. We rolled conversion or whatever it's called. 5 objectives, gain points if you hold the no man or opponents objective, but lose points if you don't hold your own... Feeling like fate was cruel, I took Oath, Investigate Signals and stranglehold, because I'm used to holding it down. I also forgot that the list I was using was built to take advantage of combing Honour vehement with Accept, even after tweaking it to account for the new point changes. So I took Accept. At least his shooting didn't necessitate Uphold. I went first and used Acclamation to fast move my termies on the middle objective to investigate, sent other units to hold the no man's objectives. A redemptor killed ~17 hybrid? from a blob that spawned from a token. One of his bike units also finished off by helbrecht. His first turn had purestrain snipe my bladeguard on the one no man's, and a patriarch my eliminators on the other. Thankfully, I still had my rites of war chaplain on the genestealer one, so I went into turn 2 scoring high on primary. This is where the game basically degenerated into me throwing more supporting units into the objectives to counter charge and shooting exposed stuff with the dreadnoughts. He failed three critical rolls over the rest of the game; aberrants into a tactical squad on the bladeguard/chaplain objective, drill guys into helbrecht, and not killing a redemptor with shooting and needing to use the patriarch to finish it. When the dust had settled at the end of 5, it was 93-92. For Templars. The terminators scored me 30 points for holding the middle through signals and oath, even though they didn't enter combat once. Pretty happy with the win, even though I really shouldn't have. Making any of those three rolls would have won him the game. Tiger9gamer 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Arthur Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Congrats on the win. One of the guys in my crusade league runs GSC and I find Uphold is usually the best choice against him. His shooting relies on a relatively small number of high strength high AP shots so hurting his wound rolls and AP really puts a dent in his shooting, and his guys have little armor anyways so the extra AP from Assault Doctrine isn't always essential, nor is the consistent +1 A when his melee units really want to finish you off in one round or they risk annihilation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Congrats on the win. One of the guys in my crusade league runs GSC and I find Uphold is usually the best choice against him. His shooting relies on a relatively small number of high strength high AP shots so hurting his wound rolls and AP really puts a dent in his shooting, and his guys have little armor anyways so the extra AP from Assault Doctrine isn't always essential, nor is the consistent +1 A when his melee units really want to finish you off in one round or they risk annihilation. Something my friend told me in the post game talk was that his list is really off meta for GSC. Almost all his quality shooting was -2 str 6, and it never really benefited from exposed on the infantry. The aberrants would have blunted a little by Uphold, but I figured they'd come after units that would never beat them in combat, far away from my stronger ones. I expect against a more normal list I'd want uphold. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Arthur Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 That's fair. My friend runs a lot of mining lasers and relies on glass cannon melee units like acolytes who usually don't survive more than one round of sustained combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5800924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 GSC have many glass cannon type units. They are about making trades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5801134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 So turns out, Tzeentch at 1k points is really bloody hard. I also had bad luck… I also had such bad luck all around today. Also had my puny jump pack marshal do 15 wounds to a lord of skulls on 11 wounds, killing it before he struck thanks to master of arms. I gotta say that guy is mean for 140 points CastellanDeMolay 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5802192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Thinking about Eradicators and Heavy Intercessors. Might not be the absolute most efficient loadouts, but I'm thinking of arming them all with their respective assault weapon variants, i.e. melta rifles and hellstorm bolt rifles. My thought is that the stratagem to allow a unit to advance and shoot assault weapons with no BS penalty can be used to add extra range/mobility options. Probably still multimeltas, too. Anyone been using either unit? What loadouts are you using? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5802282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Can Black Templars use Company Champions? I am aware they can not use the Chapter Champions, as they use the Emperor's Champion for that role, but I am asking specifically for the Company Champion models... Priamus! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5802329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Thinking about Eradicators and Heavy Intercessors. Might not be the absolute most efficient loadouts, but I'm thinking of arming them all with their respective assault weapon variants, i.e. melta rifles and hellstorm bolt rifles. My thought is that the stratagem to allow a unit to advance and shoot assault weapons with no BS penalty can be used to add extra range/mobility options. Probably still multimeltas, too. Anyone been using either unit? What loadouts are you using? One non-etb eradicators box give you 4 melta(or heavy melta) rifles and 1 multi-melta bits. They are fully swapable with heavy intercessor kits. That is how heavy intercessors could be useful. CastellanDeMolay 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5802400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) Well, that isn’t a particularly helpful response frater, as I’m seeking an actual answer. Does the value of advance and shoot assault weapons with no BS reduction offset the benefits of the other guns? Edited March 7, 2022 by Khornestar BLACK BLŒ FLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5802444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Agreed on the reply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5802498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) Well, that isn’t a particularly helpful response frater, as I’m seeking an actual answer. Does the value of advance and shoot assault weapons with no BS reduction offset the benefits of the other guns? One game my shooty Crusader squad used it so they could target two squishy Drukhari units and wiped them both… it’s quite janky imo. Edited March 8, 2022 by Black Blow Fly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5802554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrystalSeer Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 I would say no, as there's not enough shots to really benefit from a 15% increase on accuracy. Dice will still be swingy. That strat is more useful on things like aggressors or crusader blobs. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364086-the-big-9th-edition-room/page/108/#findComment-5802655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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