Prediction on 9th & how it will affect DA

[Berzul]

 

 

 

According to leaks the Astartes Chainsword is AP-1, the storm shield is now 4++ but it grants +1 armour so the Bladeguard is 2+/4++ and the relic shield of the captain is also FnP4+ against mortal wounds

this makes the bladeguard a solid HtH unit for DW (if they can teleport even better) but the Ancient is useless cause he doesn't have a ++ save, no melee weapon and the power of the banner is crap (+1 to hit but only for Bladeguard units). Belial (reroll to hit for DW units) or a DW ancient (+1A for DW units) are a lot better cause they give bonus to all DW and not to just one unit and they can fight better in HtH cause belial have a nice sword and the DW Ancient can take THSS or 2LC

 

The other units are nice with the Judicar that can be very annoying forcing one enemy unit within 6" to fight last

Yeah agree here, I'm going to be running them as a trial with a DW Ancient w/ Pennant of Remembrance and using the Fury of The First 1 CP strat for the +1 to hit.

Unless they FAQ it, Fury of the First can’t be used with the Bladeguard as it specifically references the TERMINATOR keyword.

 

Also, with the Pennant of Remembrance it affects models, and not units within 6”. So if you deepstrike in, then you have to guarantee that your Ancient also makes the charge and thus allow your models to all be within that 6” bubble.

 

 

Yeah I haven't got my codex to hand so fingers crossed they FAQ it.  I knew the rules for the pennant, with a big enough squad you used to be able to daisy chain back to him to get the benefits and tank the wounds on those within 6" first.  Now with the new coherency rules it's going to require an extra model in the squad to pull off.

 

Yeah, you are going to have to make the charges in two-men ranks, i order to ensure coherency, if the squad is large enough to ensure the Ancient is in range.

 

I always give either him, or a TDA Librarian I bring along, the Master of Maneuver Warlord Trait, to ensure those charges. So far, it has worked wonderfully. Using a bike squad to drop even closer is even better.

[Skywrath]

Rules are now live, check the warhammer page.

 

Primaris outrider stat sheet full has been revealed on page 8. Blurb of text incoming for those that are lazy..

 

OUTRIDER SQUAD 6 power

 

Outrider 14" 3+ 3+ 4 5 4 2 7 3+ 1

Outrider Sergeant 14" 3+ 3+ 4 5 4 3 8 3+

Every model is equipped with: heavy bolt pistol; twin bolt rifle; Astartes chainsword, frag grenades; krak grenades.

 

WEAPON RANGE TYPE S AP D ABILITIES

 

Heavy bolt pistol 18" Pistol 1 4 -1 1 

Twin bolt rifle 30" Rapid Fire 2 4 -1 1  

Astartes chainsword Melee Melee User -1 1 When the bearer fights, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon.

Frag grenades 6" Grenade D6 3 0 1 Blast

Krak grenades 6" Grenade 1 6 -1 D3

 

ABILITIES Angels of Death (see Codex: Space Marines)

 

Devastating Charge: If this unit makes a charge move, add 2 to the Attacks characteristic of models in this unit until the end of the turn.

Turbo-boost: When this unit Advances, add 6" to the Move characteristic of its models until the end of the Movement phase instead of making an Advance roll

[G8Keeper]

I'm very tempted to blackmail the wife into a game this evening. Aching to try those Outriders (proxies of course).

[UtariOnzo]

The new Psychic Actions from the Thousand Son’s article seem interesting too, especially the mental interrogation. I see my Librarians in narrative matches going hunting for Agents of the Falle... I mean screening the enemy’s minds for valuable strategic intelligence!

[Skywrath]

Full points list (generic units only). 

 

http://natfka.blogsp...oint-costs.html

Edited July 3, 2020 by Skywrath

[Angel of Solitude]

That’s such an odd points list. For some units - Hellblasters, Inceptors come to mind - they’ve reduced the weapons cost but increased the unit cost for an almost nil effect. Why?

 

For other units, it’s evident that they’ve adjusted costs to reflect the new blast rule, and also the ability for indirect fire - Whirlwinds and Thunderfire cannons seeing big increases, but also Landspeeders also seeing increases.

 

The big missing piece is the wargear points, notably the cost of storm shields, given the potential changes to their rules. My fear is that DWK might see an unhealthy points increase as a result...

 

Ultimately though, the points could be completely wrong. If it’s a list for the play testers to use to build armies, then there could be plenty of revisions to those points prior to the final release.

 

Oh well, at least we have time scales - less than 3 weeks for definite!

[Grand Master Raziel]

So, Primaris Outriders. T5, 4 wounds, twin bolt rifles, 2 attacks on the profile, +1 for the Astartes chainsword, +2 attacks when they charge. So, 16 total attacks when they charge. Does anyone feel like they're overcosted at 45pts each?

[Angel of Solitude]

So, Dark Angels Faction Focus is now up. A few interesting comments:

 

 

Many Dark Angels players can get trapped by playing too aggressively and overestimating the survivability of their force. With your expensive units or Flyers in particular, you need to be conscious of positioning and to make sure you don’t get caught out when taking advantage of your fun and potentially devastating Stratagems, such as Combined Assault... 

 

"Expensive units"...moreso than in 8th edition? Potentially worrying about the direction points are going for our unique units.

 

Coupled with a Chaplain’s litanies, you can mitigate your losses from supercharged plasma weaponry...

 

This is interesting because the new Primaris Lt refers to an unmodified 1 roll, and so indicates that existing datasheets and rules will not be updated. This could suggest that DWK SS will remain as they are - 3++.

 

Ravenwing Talonmasters went from scary to outright terrifying. With the ability to move and shoot without penalty, along with firing their weapons in close combat, this already deadly unit just got some staying power over multiple rounds of combat!

 

Firing their weapons in close combat...ouch!

 

...we can confirm that the Outriders will be able to gain the ‘Ravenwing’ keyword and the Bladeguard Veterans are fully inducted members of the Deathwing.

 

Does that imply a stratagem or some other mechanic to make Outriders Ravenwing, akin to the "Inner Circle" stratagem we have for Deathwing?

[Angel of Solitude]

So, Primaris Outriders. T5, 4 wounds, twin bolt rifles, 2 attacks on the profile, +1 for the Astartes chainsword, +2 attacks when they charge. So, 16 total attacks when they charge. Does anyone feel like they're overcosted at 45pts each?

 

15 points more expensive than an Attack Bike (30 points per leak), ignoring the heavy weapon option. For that extra 20 points, you're paying for:

• AP-1 on the twin-linked bolt rifle shots;
• +2 attacks on the charge, +1 attack for the chainsword, all attacks at AP-1
• As yet unknown stratagem support.

I don't think that extra 15 points is too unreasonable for all that. Those things coming in from reserve are going to be terrifying.

[Skywrath]

 

So, Primaris Outriders. T5, 4 wounds, twin bolt rifles, 2 attacks on the profile, +1 for the Astartes chainsword, +2 attacks when they charge. So, 16 total attacks when they charge. Does anyone feel like they're overcosted at 45pts each?

 

15 points more expensive than an Attack Bike (30 points per leak), ignoring the heavy weapon option. For that extra 20 points, you're paying for:

• AP-1 on the twin-linked bolt rifle shots;
• +2 attacks on the charge, +1 attack for the chainsword, all attacks at AP-1
• As yet unknown stratagem support.

I don't think that extra 15 points is too unreasonable for all that. Those things coming in from reserve are going to be terrifying.

 

 

I agree, but for completely other reasons - 4 wounds, T5 is nothing to scoff at, as well as their movement speed. Although, I am a bit saddened to see that they don't come with plasma upgrade options, although that would have made them overpowered admittedly.

 

The only real question here is what chaplain should we be running, with that tidbit of information - Asmodai, Terminator or a regular Interrogator-Chaplain? 

[Angel of Solitude]

Interrogator with Jetpack will be my go-to I think. Three litanies for tactical flexibility, 12” movement that cares not for terrain, and the ability to start on the board for that turn 1 litany...

[Isual]

 

Coupled with a Chaplain’s litanies, you can mitigate your losses from supercharged plasma weaponry...

 

This is interesting because the new Primaris Lt refers to an unmodified 1 roll, and so indicates that existing datasheets and rules will not be updated. This could suggest that DWK SS will remain as they are - 3++.

 

 

What I wonder the most is how a fnp should prevent a model from being slain. Could be an indicator that in 9th edition overcharge only gives mortal wounds instead instand kills.

[solarisqc]

However, if you’re looking to dominate the field with stalwart, lethal units, you’ll be bringing plenty of Deathwing Knights and Ravenwing Black Knights. With Combined Assault, you can use your Ravenwing units to position a Deathwing unit where it’s most dangerous. Both units are quite hard to kill while putting out a serious amount of damage. Coupled with a Chaplain’s litanies, you can mitigate your losses from supercharged plasma weaponry or give yourself insanely high odds to make that all-important Morale check.

 

I don't like this sentence, Deathwing Knight and blacknight both have inner circle, why will they need to even do a morale check when inner circle say they automaticly pass morale test.

 

Nothing new in this preview, we already know that outrider will be Ravenwing and bladeguard  are Deathwing. Why they don't talk about grim resorve and inner circle transition to 9ed.

[Angel of Solitude]

 

 

Coupled with a Chaplain’s litanies, you can mitigate your losses from supercharged plasma weaponry...

 

This is interesting because the new Primaris Lt refers to an unmodified 1 roll, and so indicates that existing datasheets and rules will not be updated. This could suggest that DWK SS will remain as they are - 3++.

 

 

What I wonder the most is how a fnp should prevent a model from being slain. Could be an indicator that in 9th edition overcharge only gives mortal wounds instead instand kills.

 

The new Assault Intercessor datasheet states that "the bearer is destroyed...". No mention of mortal wounds, so no scope to use a FNP bubble to avoid this.

[Angel of Solitude]

However, if you’re looking to dominate the field with stalwart, lethal units, you’ll be bringing plenty of Deathwing Knights and Ravenwing Black Knights. With Combined Assault, you can use your Ravenwing units to position a Deathwing unit where it’s most dangerous. Both units are quite hard to kill while putting out a serious amount of damage. Coupled with a Chaplain’s litanies, you can mitigate your losses from supercharged plasma weaponry or give yourself insanely high odds to make that all-important Morale check.

 

I don't like this sentence, Deathwing Knight and blacknight both have inner circle, why will they need to even do a morale check when inner circle say they automaticly pass morale test.

 

Nothing new in this preview, we already know that outrider will be Ravenwing and bladeguard  are Deathwing. Why they don't talk about grim resorve and inner circle transition to 9ed.

In fairness, the Warhammer Community team aren't exactly known for their accuracy in such matters! I mean, case in point here - which Litany actually gives a benefit to the morale check? The Chaplain itself has a 6" Ld 9 bubble, but that's it. I imagine that this comment was made by the playtester, but in reference to other units. On editing, it's then been taken out of context.

[JimVandy85]

That faction focus article was phoned in. No new information really. I honestly wonder what the point of them are.

[shabbadoo]

"Though a noble and storied Chapter, their deeds are ever tainted by a secret, treacherous past when nearly half their original Legion turned traitor during the Horus Heresy.*"

 

So, the Dark Angels left half of the Legion on Caliban to train up the next few batches of Caliban recruits, and only went to fight the Horus' traitors with half the legion? 

 

We are supposed to believe that The Lion left near 100,000 Dark Angels, rather than a few thousand (which is still enough to wipe out sectors), on Caliban with Luther to train up the next batches of recruits?

 

Half of a Legion is enough Dark Angels to wipe out swathes of sectors, and that number would be completely unnecessary to defend/train up the recruits from one planet.

 

Let's get this straight. We are talking nearly 100 current Chapters worth of Space Marines being seen as needed to do this duty?

 

I guess we are back to being on the receiving end of the ret-conn stupid treatment...

 

...because Dark Angels?

 

... or because the next next campaign book series will be Indomitus: Schism Wars themed, and there needs to be something ginormously big and flashy (because the Traitor Legions are sooo last week) for the Imperium to go up against?

 

...or because GW has 20,000 Fallen boxed sets and they need to offload them on somebody/anybody?

Edited July 3, 2020 by shabbadoo

[ValourousHeart]

Well just based on the leaked points, so far I'm only losing 1 model/unit from my 2k RW list, a Nephilim.  Just need to see how the base cost of Sableclaw, Talonmaster, Dark Talon and Nephilim are affected by the points change to see if it is more than that.  Ironically that almost takes me back to the list I was running at the start of 8th edition, except I'm keeping my Invictors over the Ven Dreads I was running back then.

 

I'm currious if the Invictor Heavy Bolter is going to change.  It appears now that the model if in engagement range can either fire the Heavy Bolter (pistol) at BS, or the main gun and stubbers at -1 BS.  It feels like taking the -1 penalty is better choice, especially if you have the Flame Cannon, but even the Autocannon seems worth it.  -1 BS in exchange for +3 shots, +2S, +1 Damage, and also the 6 shots for the stubbers.

 

And since the Heavy Bolter counts as a pistol if there is an enemy within 1 inch, it isn't like you can shoot the heavy bolter first to kill the one guy left in assault and then be free to shoot the rest of your guns because you can't shoot both pistols and other guns.

 

So, Primaris Outriders. T5, 4 wounds, twin bolt rifles, 2 attacks on the profile, +1 for the Astartes chainsword, +2 attacks when they charge. So, 16 total attacks when they charge. Does anyone feel like they're overcosted at 45pts each?

 

Don't they also have Angels of Death giving them Shock Assault?  2 base, +1 for the Chainsword, +2 when they charge (Devastating Charge), and +1 first round of combat (Shock Assault).  Then the Sarg would have 3 base attacks.  19 attacks for a unit of 3 on the charge, 13 attacks if they get charged, and 10 attacks on the 2nd round of combat.

 

This would give RW the following:

 

Speeders and Attack Bikes - Dedicated shooting units.

RW Bike - Primarily Shooting but could assault in a pinch.

RWBK - Our middle of the road unit.

Outriders - Primarily Assault but you will still shoot with them every turn.

Invader ATV - We don't know for sure yet, but it will probably end up between RW Bikes or RWBK, primarily shooting but could assault.

 

And then we have the Primaris Land Speeder that I'm just chomping at the bit to finally see and find out more.

[ValourousHeart]

Interrogator with Jetpack will be my go-to I think. Three litanies for tactical flexibility, 12” movement that cares not for terrain, and the ability to start on the board for that turn 1 litany...

 

Or the new Primaris Chaplain on Bike.  I wonder if he will get the RW keyword as well?

[jaxom]

Interrogator with Jetpack will be my go-to I think. Three litanies for tactical flexibility, 12” movement that cares not for terrain, and the ability to start on the board for that turn 1 litany...

Plus Stoic Persecution is an aura; you can use the jump pack mobility to position where your reserves are going to come on and now they count as remaining stationary.

[Angel of Solitude]

 

Interrogator with Jetpack will be my go-to I think. Three litanies for tactical flexibility, 12” movement that cares not for terrain, and the ability to start on the board for that turn 1 litany...

Plus Stoic Persecution is an aura; you can use the jump pack mobility to position where your reserves are going to come on and now they count as remaining stationary.

 

So that only applies to when an Infantry unit is shooting. Some potential candidates for that:

• Aggressors to allow them to shoot twice
• Hellblasters with the Heavy variant to allow them to hit on full BS

Given the new character targeting rules, the IC would need a bodyguard unit - don't know why but Inceptors with Assault Bolters might do the trick...clear out a screen too to allow space for the reserves to arrive. But given the points investment, I suspect there may be more efficient ways to do the same thing...

[INKS]

Are they bring back Chap on a bike for Ravenwing? That would be nice.

[jaxom]

Even a 5 man devastator squad walking onto the board turn 2 or 3 could be nasty.

 

As for guarding the Chaplain, a 5 man unit of Assault Marines if they’re cheap enough, or bikers if you want something more generally useful.

[aura_enchanted]

"Though a noble and storied Chapter, their deeds are ever tainted by a secret, treacherous past when nearly half their original Legion turned traitor during the Horus Heresy.*"

 

So, the Dark Angels left half of the Legion on Caliban to train up the next few batches of Caliban recruits, and only went to fight the Horus' traitors with half the legion? 

 

We are supposed to believe that The Lion left near 100,000 Dark Angels, rather than a few thousand (which is still enough to wipe out sectors), on Caliban with Luther to train up the next batches of recruits?

 

Half of a Legion is enough Dark Angels to wipe out swathes of sectors, and that number would be completely unnecessary to defend/train up the recruits from one planet.

 

Let's get this straight. We are talking nearly 100 current Chapters worth of Space Marines being seen as needed to do this duty?

 

I guess we are back to being on the receiving end of the ret-conn stupid treatment...

 

...because Dark Angels?

 

... or because the next next campaign book series will be Indomitus: Schism Wars themed, and there needs to be something ginormously big and flashy (because the Traitor Legions are sooo last week) for the Imperium to go up against?

 

...or because GW has 20,000 Fallen boxed sets and they need to offload them on somebody/anybody?

yea i dont know either, its clear either they didn't care or the person who wrote this really doesn't know the first thing written in the Horus heresy books and laid down as canon. and this makes me genuinely mad at games workshop, if i could say something about it to them i would. it was really poorly written to the point if money was no object i would pay my relatives in Nottingham to travel down to their offices and file a formal complaint in person. they wouldn't do it for free they live all the way across Nottingham from their offices so its a trip for them to do.

 

in addition the whole rules reveal was terrible, that's just insult on injury that was.

[jaxom]

 

 

"Though a noble and storied Chapter, their deeds are ever tainted by a secret, treacherous past when nearly half their original Legion turned traitor during the Horus Heresy.*"

 

So, the Dark Angels left half of the Legion on Caliban to train up the next few batches of Caliban recruits, and only went to fight the Horus' traitors with half the legion?

 

We are supposed to believe that The Lion left near 100,000 Dark Angels, rather than a few thousand (which is still enough to wipe out sectors), on Caliban with Luther to train up the next batches of recruits?

 

Half of a Legion is enough Dark Angels to wipe out swathes of sectors, and that number would be completely unnecessary to defend/train up the recruits from one planet.

 

Let's get this straight. We are talking nearly 100 current Chapters worth of Space Marines being seen as needed to do this duty?

 

I guess we are back to being on the receiving end of the ret-conn stupid treatment...

 

...because Dark Angels?

 

... or because the next next campaign book series will be Indomitus: Schism Wars themed, and there needs to be something ginormously big and flashy (because the Traitor Legions are sooo last week) for the Imperium to go up against?

 

...or because GW has 20,000 Fallen boxed sets and they need to offload them on somebody/anybody?

yea i dont know either, its clear either they didn't care or the person who wrote this really doesn't know the first thing written in the Horus heresy books and laid down as canon. and this makes me genuinely mad at games workshop, if i could say something about it to them i would. it was really poorly written to the point if money was no object i would pay my relatives in Nottingham to travel down to their offices and file a formal complaint in person. they wouldn't do it for free they live all the way across Nottingham from their offices so its a trip for them to do.

 

in addition the whole rules reveal was terrible, that's just insult on injury that was.

Take a deep breath. They’re just copying the elevator pitch for Dark Angels that has existed since second edition. The articles, according the the WC Facebook team are primarily aimed at people unfamiliar with the factions and interested in branching out in a new edition.