Prediction on 9th & how it will affect DA

[G8Keeper]

Woohoo we're getting a chaplain on bike!

[Varizel]

I am more interested in the primaris Techmarine... i thought it looked pretty sweet... the chaplain on bike kinda makes wonder why they retires the old one.... not only that... when i look at the new chappy helmet, all i could i think of it's looks like Mr. T....... "no, i don't hate Xenos... i just pity the fool"

[G8Keeper]

To be fair I'll be getting both at some point. GW have overloaded my positronic net with all the new goodies now and resistance is futile!

[jaxom]

I have two simple goals before I buy the new hotness; finish the Guard models I have and an AoS army. That’ll give two good armies to play with as I make new things for ninth.

[aura_enchanted]

judiciar rules are out, he seems like hes kind of made for the shroud of heroes giving him -1 to hit against is probably going to save his bacon quite frequently. 

[UtariOnzo]

Pretty cool, but seems to push champions out of the same ‘character killer’ slot. Smash chap/cap still has a place around him as they’re more flexible, being able to go after monsters and tanks, as well as threatening big damage to multiwound characters

[WrathOfTheLion]

From what I've seen of the new rulebook from unboxing videos, they've removed the faction sections for Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves.

 

They also did remove the standalone page for Ultramarines, so not certain if that means much.

Edited July 6, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Skywrath]

Forgeworld unit points: 

 

 

Dark Angel unit points (From 22.25):

 

 

Discuss.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Skywrath

[oldmanlee]

Deathwing Knights going to 45pts clearly show gw have no clue on how to balance anything

[Skywrath]

Deathwing Knights going to 45pts clearly show gw have no clue on how to balance anything

 

I would hold off on that statement, sorely because the point increases seem to be across the board for a lot of factions. The reason I say this, over at the Grey Knights forum we also received a fair amount of point increases, which make some of our lists pretty unfeasible (at least at the 2k point mark). Putting the pieces together, it seems like this was calculated at us having longer games, which indirectly translates to us buying more units from them. 

[Mattias]

It seems as though Deathwing Knights are now completely redundant.

 

As they now cost more than regular Deathwing Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields and the points cost for the Cyclone Missile Launcher has also dropped, is there any reason you would ever play Deathwing Knights, when the two below units are so close in cost (i.e. only two Meltabombs more):

 

5 x Deathwing Knights (4 x Maces of Absolution, 1 x Flail of the Unforgiven, 5 x Storm Shields)

5 x Deathwing Terminators (5 x Thunder Hammers, 5 x Storm Shields, Cyclone Missile Launcher)

 

Genuinely curious, as I have just bought another box and trying to decide on whether to bail out of building them as Deathwing Knights?

[Skywrath]

It seems as though Deathwing Knights are now completely redundant.

 

As they now cost more than regular Deathwing Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields and the points cost for the Cyclone Missile Launcher has also dropped, is there any reason you would ever play Deathwing Knights, when the two below units are so close in cost (i.e. only two Meltabombs more):

 

5 x Deathwing Knights (4 x Maces of Absolution, 1 x Flail of the Unforgiven, 5 x Storm Shields)

5 x Deathwing Terminators (5 x Thunder Hammers, 5 x Storm Shields, Cyclone Missile Launcher)

 

Genuinely curious, as I have just bought another box and trying to decide on whether to bail out of building them as Deathwing Knights?

 

Points value wise? Not great. Redundant, absolutely not. They have a 3+ invuln, assuming the shield rules haven't changed, have that FnP from the Ancient, and still hitting on 2's (correct me if I am wrong here) with S8, -2AP, 3 damage maces. If you were to take terminators, you'd be hitting on 4's, with just an additional point of AP with a 5+ invuln saves. 

 

However, that being said, this is definitely not a good thing.

 

EDIT: I wonder how the Bladeguard will compare to the Deathwing Knights in terms of this. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Skywrath

[Mattias]

Hi Skywrath,

 

The two units have an identical profile, including the same saves, as both units have Storm Shields, and equal access to FnP from the Ancient.

 

The only difference is equipment (4 Maces & 1 Flail vs 5 Thunder Hammers & Cyclone Missile Launcher).

 

In combat they are very similar (S8 -3AP D3 -1 to hit vs S8 -2AP D3), but the Knights must take a Flail over a 5th Mace. Given that negative hit modifiers are now capped if there are ever any additional negatives they would be hitting on the same value.

 

But the Deathwing Terminators would also get the Cyclone Missile Launcher for very little more, which massively expands their threat range/capabilities.

 

In what scenarios/lists would the Deathwing Knights be superior?

[Skywrath]

Sorry, I had a brief case of mind going blank when you clearly mentioned the terminators have a storm-shield and a thunder-hammer. If the terminators Thunder-hammer is unwieldy (hitting on 4's), then the Deathwing Knights would be hitting on 3's. The Cyclone missile launcher is a bonus, but I'm pretty sure (don't quote me on this), that adding a CML with a squad of TT/SS Terminators would make them more expensive than the DWK as a general, not to mention the additional cost of using said weaponry. Of course, this is said in mind with being relatively unaware of the point changes from 9th. I'll probably look at the video properly later on, and post a comprehensive list of point changes on the DA forum.

 

Another two things worth mentioning, that the CML will have blast on it, but so will the other units. Personally I run 6x Plasma inceptors (which due to a 4d chess play) are actually more feasible now, and would (I presume) to be less expensive, as well as having blast. Not to mention that they have 3W, T5 and they hit harder shooty-wise. Circling back to the DWT vs the DWK argument, I'd still take the DWK because I have 10 of them in my box, and because they look more aesthetically pleasing. Seems like what it boils down to at the end of things, is the aesthetic worth it. So even if they did get their points increased, I'll still be running them.

[Hantheman]

DWK should be 5 point cheaper. 10 point hike is silly

[Mattias]

Completely with you on the aesthetics argument as the Deathwing Knights look much better.

 

With the changes to 9th edition missions and the emphasis on taking and holding objectives rather than killing the enemy, I think both DWK and DWT would primarily see use in the role of  assaulting and claiming mid-table/enemy objectives. The DWT would then have the advantage of the heavy weapons fire, whilst holding the objective.

 

Given the 10pts difference, I can't see myself taking DWK over DWT (unless an FAQ changes their rules), except for fluff reasons.

 

I guess my views could be shaped by my local meta, as I commonly play against Deathguard and units protected by Miasma of Pestilence (-1 to hit), in which case the two units are both hitting on 4+ in the new rules (due to the cap on negatives).

[Angel of Solitude]

Controversially, while we may not like it, I think the points increase to DWK is justified.

 

Ritual of the Damned gave the DWK access to some incredibly powerful boosts:

- +1 toughness

- Transhuman Physiology

- 5+++

- +1 to hit

- re-roll wounds on characters

- deepstrike 6” away

 

These are on top of Fortress of Shields, +1A from your Ancient and flat multi-damage weapons too That’s a very nice array of boosts to spend our CPs on, which 9th Ed is likely to make more available too.

 

The few times I played with DWK in 8th, they were brutal. A points increase does hurt, but arguably its justified.

[Berzul]

Its gonna make it very hard to play any more than a 5-man squad, on games above 1500 points.
 

[jaxom]

Its gonna make it very hard to play any more than a 5-man squad, on games above 1500 points.

 

 

True, but it makes for an interesting question regarding unit priorities. Is there anything worth dropping to put more terminators in?

[Gederas]

Its gonna make it very hard to play any more than a 5-man squad, on games above 1500 points.

True, but it makes for an interesting question regarding unit priorities. Is there anything worth dropping to put more terminators in?

According to the playtester in the Discord I'm in... yeah

 

He's being tight-lipped as usual, but I did get some interesting tidbits, specifically in response to this comment from another Dark Angels player:

 

"Hope terminators actually feel like terminators. T5 W2 or more 2+/5++"

 

Said playtester's response:

"the W seems a bit small on those termies for 9th

Terminator Amy is going to be hard to crack in 9th

Land raiders also became way more useful"

 

[Berzul]

 

Its gonna make it very hard to play any more than a 5-man squad, on games above 1500 points.

 

 

True, but it makes for an interesting question regarding unit priorities. Is there anything worth dropping to put more terminators in?

 

As the psychopathic purple xenos from the marvel movies once said:

 

Everything

[oldmanlee]

 

Its gonna make it very hard to play any more than a 5-man squad, on games above 1500 points.

 

 

True, but it makes for an interesting question regarding unit priorities. Is there anything worth dropping to put more terminators in?

Guess it all comes down too how you want to play tbh im bored of playing ravenwing so for 9th I'm looking at pure deathwing.with the boards being smaller do you need land raiders now? I might try a foot slog deathwing army with a few dreads for anti tank?

[Berzul]

 

 

Its gonna make it very hard to play any more than a 5-man squad, on games above 1500 points.

 

True, but it makes for an interesting question regarding unit priorities. Is there anything worth dropping to put more terminators in?

Guess it all comes down too how you want to play tbh im bored of playing ravenwing so for 9th I'm looking at pure deathwing.with the boards being smaller do you need land raiders now? I might try a foot slog deathwing army with a few dreads for anti tank?

 

You could always try running a tri wing list. Bikes to rush the enemy, before dropping some terminators, while a few squads of greenwing hold the line.

[Hantheman]

 

Its gonna make it very hard to play any more than a 5-man squad, on games above 1500 points.

True, but it makes for an interesting question regarding unit priorities. Is there anything worth dropping to put more terminators in?

According to the playtester in the Discord I'm in... yeah

 

He's being tight-lipped as usual, but I did get some interesting tidbits, specifically in response to this comment from another Dark Angels player:

 

"Hope terminators actually feel like terminators. T5 W2 or more 2+/5++"

 

Said playtester's response:

"the W seems a bit small on those termies for 9th

Terminator Amy is going to be hard to crack in 9th

Land raiders also became way more useful"

 

 

 

Yes. it's hard to judge things in a vacuum. DA getting on average 7 more CP a game is huge for an elite army. I'll have to experiment a lot.

[Berzul]

That is what I think will be most amazing about this edition.

 

If you have been watching reports from people that got the edition early, armies overall seem to have a LOT more CP. I have seen games with armies going strong on stratagems deep into the 4th or 5th round.

 

Despite DWKs being so expensive, if you can, in fact, give them transhuman physiology every turn, and fortress of shields more than once a battle, then I guess they are worth the cost.

 

Imagine keeping them at 2+/3++/5+++, with only being wounded on 5+, all throughout the battle... Amazing

Edited July 13, 2020 by Berzul