New Space marine Codex and DA

[Berzul]

 

This whole thing seems very poorly structured... I am VERY confused.

It's not too bad. What's got your noggin spinning mate?

 

 

I'm struggling with:

 

1) what units of ours have the Deathwing and Ravenwing keywords.

2) which units get the Inner Circle special rule, and which units get the jink special rule

 

Also, did we lose Deathwing Assault?

Edited October 5, 2020 by Berzul

[Angel of Solitude]

So...

 

Got wheels or can fly? It has the RAVENWING keyword.

However, only those data sheets in the FAQ that have the RAVENWING keyword get the Jink ability.

 

In terminator armour or have the BLADEGUARD keyword? Then it gets the DEATHWING keyword.

However, only those data sheets in the FAQ that have the DEATHWING keyword get the Inner Circle ability.

[DalamarDe]

Black knights Don't come with Melee weapon any more you can buy them piece-meal for 5 point per bike. So the are 40 points shooting only, 45 points with Corvis Hammer.

[UtariOnzo]

 

 

 

I'm struggling with:

 

1) what units of ours have the Deathwing and Ravenwing keywords.

2) which units get the Inner Circle special rule, and which units get the jink special rule

 

Also, did we lose Deathwing Assault?

 

 

1) Those units have that keyword in Codex: Space Marine. In short, Bladeguard Veterans and all Terminator units in C:SM have Deathwing, and anything on a bike/in a speeder have Ravenwing. C:SM fliers DO NOT have Ravenwing, but we do have access to them.

2) For now, ONLY those units that explicitly say they have the Inner Circle and Jink rules, so only units in the Index

3) For now, yes.

[solarisqc]

RAW Ravenwing are the big looser here, Samael, Talon master, Blacknight, Apo, Champion and Ancient have jinx but all other ravenwing unit lose all special rules. Losing speed of the raven also mean no more long range charge available to Ravenwing unit. Losing WFTDA is also a big nerf for Greenwing and ravenwing.

 

Deathwing and lose nothing and and with the named character they are the most resiliant firstborn, big win for them.

[solarisqc]

Small change to the astarte banner, you need to be kill by an ennemy attack, no more overcharge plasma kill for another overcharge plasma shot. An it's only affecting CORE unit.

[Wrath of Bruinen]

I’m looking forward to trying out the new dark talon rules - 5++ for moving, and the potential for 9 mortal wounds (12 if you drop the bomb) is really nice. True, they’ve lost rerolls from characters, but they should hit most of the time anyway. Speed of the raven was also situationally nice on them, but again not too terrible a loss because of the small board sizes now Edited October 5, 2020 by TheWeepingAngel

[Malakithe]

I hope the supplement updates the Primaris stuff to have the other keywords. I want to go ham on some bladeguard

[HandsWithLegs]

The flyers basicly always having a 5++ from Jink is really nice, and the Nephilim actually getting rules to support its role as a dogfighter is awesome, but I'm kinda sad the Dark Talon lost Strafing Run

[Angel of Solitude]

Other changes of interest:

• Azrael's plasma profile went to a straight S8 AP-4 D2, so effectively supercharged all the time with no penalty.
• I think the change from "models within" to "units within" for the Lion Helm, albeit now for shooting only, has previously been noted;
• He now gives a 2CP benefit if he is your Warlord.
• Belial's Sword of Silence also got a nice buff: S+2 AP-4 D3...
• Sammael on Corvex now gets a S8 AP-4 D2 profile for his Master-crafted plasma cannon
• Meanwhile, on the charge he now swings at S12 AP-4 D2...
• Ezekiel now gets a flat D3 damage against FALLEN and HERETIC ASTARTES.
• Asmodai now gets an extra attack, and his Blades of Reason are now S+1 AP0 2D3 (was User AP0 D6).
• Talonmaster gains 2" movement, 2 wounds, but loses an attack.
• Ravenwing and Deathwing Champions get +1A and always fight first against CHARACTERS
• Landspeeder Vengeance now has +1S to both profiles, and now only suffers a mortal wound rather than losing the whole weapon.
• Dark Talon...Stasis bomb is now only d3 mortal wounds to a single unit, but that unit can no longer fall back.
• An extra wound for both the Dark Talon and Nephilim Jet Fighter!
• Avenger Mega Bolter is now a 10-shot Heavy Bolter instead of a 10-shot assault cannon (so S5 AP-1 D2).

[Ishagu]

The Avenger Mega Bolter is pretty tasty, let's be honest.

[Angel of Solitude]

Ok. so I just noticed we lost the Deathwing Ancient...

 

There is provision for one in the C:SM, but (1) it doesn't get the Inner Circle ability, and (2) it's not the +1A banner. That takes the bite out of a squad of Deathwing Knights for sure.

[solarisqc]

Both flyers are realy nice now,

Nephilim (190) is a true dogfighter now with a 5++ and hitting other aircraft on 3+ with 2 missile S7 ap -3 D4 shot and 16 S5 ap-1 D2 shot with the twin heavy bolter and avenger mega bolter.

 

Dark Talon (210) have the option to go hover mode, don't move and hit on 2+ with grim resolve. Use High speed focus stratagem for 4++. The Stasis bomb also open the tactical option to protect DA unit in melee in the ennemy turn. It can become a real Character sniper also with the rift canon d3 S12 d3 mortal wound and Stasis bomb for d3 MW.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Ok. so I just noticed we lost the Deathwing Ancient...

 

There is provision for one in the C:SM, but (1) it doesn't get the Inner Circle ability, and (2) it's not the +1A banner. That takes the bite out of a squad of Deathwing Knights for sure.

Another point in favor that there's a missing mechanic we'll see in a later publication. There'll be some way to make him have inner circle, but it's just not in the holdover rules we have now.

[HandsWithLegs]

I think the loss of Deathwing ancient is just a mistake, as the Pennant of Remembrance still says Deathwing Ancient only

[solarisqc]

Azreal don't have the captain keyword but Belial and Samael have it. No Belial and Samael in the same detachement but you can have Azreal and another captain in the same detachement.

[Angel of Solitude]

I think the loss of Deathwing ancient is just a mistake, as the Pennant of Remembrance still says Deathwing Ancient only

Both the C:SM Bladeguard Ancient and Ancient in Terminator Armour get the DEATHWING ANCIENT keywords if they’re Dark Angels, so they would both be valid targets for the relic banner.

[Fierce Bear]

A few rough edges, something's look a bit too good to be true... But things like LSV finally got fixed..

 

Watching to see if Sammael is getting Rubicon'd... (Just recently kitbashed a Corvex version...

Edited October 5, 2020 by Fierce Bear

[Master Sheol]

Azreal don't have the captain keyword but Belial and Samael have it. No Belial and Samael in the same detachement but you can have Azreal and another captain in the same detachement.

This is why a chapter Matser is not a captain so you can have hima and a captain in the same detachment

[solarisqc]

I think the LS vengence is a superior choice vs the new primaris speeder.

 

For the relic deathwing banner, don't forgot that Apothecary now give a 6'' aura 6+ FNP, the banner is a small buff if you have an APO arround.

[Gederas]

Wow wee we wah, this update....

 

Inner Circle is ridiculous, especially on the non-Bikers. Yes, I'd like built-in Transhuman Physiology thank you!

 

But yeah, this definitely feels like a tease with some key things missing. Especially in regards to Inner Circle and Jink :yes:

 

In all honesty though, I like this a lot and don't mind it one bit.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Absolutely, this is cool. I had some hopes that Deathwing might end up really cool this time around, and it's looking like there's going to be a lot of fun with them.

 

As well however, I do appreciate the quality of life decision they made to invalidate all the previous publications with the Index/PDF. That will make playing the game vastly easier.

[Hantheman]

Deathwing knights are the best imperium melee unit bar none, possibly best melee unit overall of any faction

 

They are so hard to kill now. The combination of built in transhuman and the stormshield change and 3W means to force an invul save you want to shoot with a high AP gun, but high AP guns are usually lower shot count and high str, which is wasted becase you lose your wound advantage. If you fire Str 4 weapons, 1CP makes them wound on 5 and usually 2+ or 3+ save.

 

Then add in a 5+++...

 

Vs any other terminator they will outlast. And you can give them Obsec with the new warlord trait I think?

 

 

The worst change in ravenwing characters not taking plasma talons... remodelling will be impossible

Edited October 5, 2020 by Hantheman

[solarisqc]

Deathwing knight is 47 pts per model, 470 for a unit of 10

 

Vanguard veteran is 28 point per model for Lightning claw, storm shield and jump pack, 37 pts for Thunder hammer, Storm shield and jump pack.

 

Deathwing knight are the most resiliand unit but the VV can be realy good and have more impact on the 5 turn of a game, if they are BW or White scar, the damage output can be greater than the DW knight.

[Gederas]

The worst change in ravenwing characters not taking plasma talons... remodelling will be impossible

All three of them can have Plasma Talons

 

"This model’s Astartes grenade launcher can be replaced with 1 plasma talon."

 

That's on the Ravenwing Ancient, Ravenwing Apothecary and Ravenwing Champion