Possible changes in the new codex.

[Bulwyf]

 

 

I love being told how great my faction is by people who don’t play Death Guard.

 

I ran out of likes but I echo this. Having random people show up here talking about how much they love DG getting nerfed is a bit much.

 

Whine less then. You did exactly the same thing on the Space Wolves sub forum for months.

 

Also - never said I love DG getting nerfed: I said that DR was horrible to play against, and the new DR is still good, plus there's new stuff (and the new WarCom article is the perfect example).

 

 

Raising valid concerns that all proved to be true with Space Wolves is now "whining"?  Interesting.

 

The new DR is definitely not still good. It is about as meaningful as duty eternal on dreads. It is the "oh, ok, you only did 5 instead of 6 wounds but  my guy is still dead" kind of rule that people who don't have an idea of what they are talking about can come onto someone's board and talk about how nice it is.

[Kallas]

Raising valid concerns that all proved to be true with Space Wolves is now "whining"?  Interesting.

 

The new DR is definitely not still good. It is about as meaningful as duty eternal on dreads. It is the "oh, ok, you only did 5 instead of 6 wounds but  my guy is still dead" kind of rule that people who don't have an idea of what they are talking about can come onto someone's board and talk about how nice it is.

 

Duty Eternal is good. If you think it's not, then you're living in another world. Is it 5+++? No, but FNP can also fail.

If something was doing 6 damage to a Plague Marine, 5+++ was doing nothing, since you needed to make all 6 before; so how is the new one any different? Terrible example.

 

Is it as powerful? No, because 5+++ has the potential to save more, but can also fail. Is -1 Damage still good? Yes. And you're seemingly ignoring the fact that DG are getting more abilities, with more yet to be seen with the actual Codex release.

 

And yes, your whining on the Wolves forum was unfounded. Wolves are strong, and there is definitely flavour there.

 

"people who don't have an idea of what they are talking about can come onto someone's board and talk about how nice it is."

This is why I actively dislike you. You're misrepresenting things in your saltiness, and I expect you're doing it deliberately.

[Bulwyf]

 

Raising valid concerns that all proved to be true with Space Wolves is now "whining"?  Interesting.

 

The new DR is definitely not still good. It is about as meaningful as duty eternal on dreads. It is the "oh, ok, you only did 5 instead of 6 wounds but  my guy is still dead" kind of rule that people who don't have an idea of what they are talking about can come onto someone's board and talk about how nice it is.

 

Duty Eternal is good. If you think it's not, then you're living in another world. Is it 5+++? No, but FNP can also fail.

If something was doing 6 damage to a Plague Marine, 5+++ was doing nothing, since you needed to make all 6 before; so how is the new one any different? Terrible example.

 

Is it as powerful? No, because 5+++ has the potential to save more, but can also fail. Is -1 Damage still good? Yes. And you're seemingly ignoring the fact that DG are getting more abilities, with more yet to be seen with the actual Codex release.

 

And yes, your whining on the Wolves forum was unfounded. Wolves are strong, and there is definitely flavour there.

 

"people who don't have an idea of what they are talking about can come onto someone's board and talk about how nice it is."

This is why I actively dislike you. You're misrepresenting things in your saltiness, and I expect you're doing it deliberately.

 

 

So you agree with me that new DR is nowhere near as good as old DR. You actively dislike me when you don't know me as a person. I post valid concerns about the armies I play and keep to the discussion. I don't veer into personal insults or actively disliking someone like other people do.  

 

Wolves are not strong and lost a considerable amount of flavor and uniqueness. Since this isn't the SW board I don't want to digress further about that topic. I'd invite you to PM me  to go over it if you want but since you actively dislike me I'm not sure how productive that would be. 

 

If you don't like my posts then feel free to put me on ignore. My objections to the changes to DR still stand. I already stated that we can't judge the DG codex until it is actually out. However, discussing the rules as they trickle out from GW is valid because  it is the only information we have to date to go by.

[Iron Sage]

 

Been thinking about the new DG Possessed. It's hard to think of a more improved unit pre-everything else we haven't seen yet:

• T5 instead of T4
• Core
• 4 attacks instead of D3
• Plague Weapons
• -1D from DR
• 3 wounds

I should probably start figuring out how I'm going to convert mine.

 

Contagions of Nurgle

 

Text:

 

 

Ability text:

If every unit from your army has the DEATH GUARD keyword (excluding UNALIGNED units), this unit gains the following ability:

Nurgle's Gift (Contagion): While an enemy unit is within Contagion Range of this unit (see opposite), subtract 1 from the Toughness characteristic of models in that enemy unit.

Round 1: 1" range

Round 2: 3" range

Round 3: 6" range

Round 4: 9" range

While similar to aura abilities, Contagion abilities are not affected by any abilities that affect Aura abilities, or vice-versa.

 

Well, well, well. After the down of yesterday the rollercoaster is going up, up, up. Still a bit sore concerning the DR, precisely because in my imagination it is so thematically important to Death Guard (that's my problem primarily really, the "plague marine sometimes shrugging off a wounds that should have killed it" part, is so thematically ingrained in my mind as Death Guard), but this is pretty fantastic. The aura also goes far enough out on Turn 3 and 4 to actually probably encompass several units, it is strong. And from turn 1, our melee specialists are freaking a hell of a lot more dangerous in melee in various weapon configurations. Even plagueknives, who also got the surprising but very nice -1 AP becomes almost a dangerous weapon.

Yeah, this was nice.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Iron Sage

[Bulwyf]

 

 

Been thinking about the new DG Possessed. It's hard to think of a more improved unit pre-everything else we haven't seen yet:

• T5 instead of T4
• Core
• 4 attacks instead of D3
• Plague Weapons
• -1D from DR
• 3 wounds

I should probably start figuring out how I'm going to convert mine.

 

Contagions of Nurgle

 

Text:

 

 

Ability text:

If every unit from your army has the DEATH GUARD keyword (excluding UNALIGNED units), this unit gains the following ability:

Nurgle's Gift (Contagion): While an enemy unit is within Contagion Range of this unit (see opposite), subtract 1 from the Toughness characteristic of models in that enemy unit.

Round 1: 1" range

Round 2: 3" range

Round 3: 6" range

Round 4: 9" range

While similar to aura abilities, Contagion abilities are not affected by any abilities that affect Aura abilities, or vice-versa.

 

Well, well, well. After the down of yesterday the rollercoaster is going up, up, up. Still a bit sore concerning the DR, precisely because in my imagination it is so thematically important to Death Guard (that's my problem primarily really, the "plague marine sometimes shrugging off a wounds that should have killed it" part, is so thematically ingrained in my mind as Death Guard), but this is pretty fantastic. The aura also goes far enough out on Turn 3 and 4 to actually probably encompass several units, it is strong. And from turn 1, our melee specialists are freaking a hell of a lot more dangerous in melee in various weapon configurations. Even plagueknives, who also got the surprising but very nice -1 AP becomes almost a dangerous weapon.

Yeah, this was nice.

 

 

It is somewhat bizarre that GW is apparently seeing DG as a melee army now. It is welcome to have a new way to play. I still prefer my shoot first and stand the longest way of playing DG but these trickling in rules do show promise for melee DG lists.

[Iron Sage]

 

 

 

Been thinking about the new DG Possessed. It's hard to think of a more improved unit pre-everything else we haven't seen yet:

• T5 instead of T4
• Core
• 4 attacks instead of D3
• Plague Weapons
• -1D from DR
• 3 wounds

I should probably start figuring out how I'm going to convert mine.

 

Contagions of Nurgle

 

Text:

 

 

Ability text:

If every unit from your army has the DEATH GUARD keyword (excluding UNALIGNED units), this unit gains the following ability:

Nurgle's Gift (Contagion): While an enemy unit is within Contagion Range of this unit (see opposite), subtract 1 from the Toughness characteristic of models in that enemy unit.

Round 1: 1" range

Round 2: 3" range

Round 3: 6" range

Round 4: 9" range

While similar to aura abilities, Contagion abilities are not affected by any abilities that affect Aura abilities, or vice-versa.

 

Well, well, well. After the down of yesterday the rollercoaster is going up, up, up. Still a bit sore concerning the DR, precisely because in my imagination it is so thematically important to Death Guard (that's my problem primarily really, the "plague marine sometimes shrugging off a wounds that should have killed it" part, is so thematically ingrained in my mind as Death Guard), but this is pretty fantastic. The aura also goes far enough out on Turn 3 and 4 to actually probably encompass several units, it is strong. And from turn 1, our melee specialists are freaking a hell of a lot more dangerous in melee in various weapon configurations. Even plagueknives, who also got the surprising but very nice -1 AP becomes almost a dangerous weapon.

Yeah, this was nice.

 

 

It is somewhat bizarre that GW is apparently seeing DG as a melee army now. It is welcome to have a new way to play. I still prefer my shoot first and stand the longest way of playing DG but these trickling in rules do show promise for melee DG lists.

 

Yeah. Know how you feel. But at least this does actually give us some options we did not previously have. Like you I am having problems with swallowing the Feel No Pain nerf, but this Contaigon rule do indeed make us much more potent in melee. It is a bit strange concerning the play style, but the contagion rule does at least thematically make a lot of sense. And it is a strong rule that actually does something tangible.

[Bulwyf]

 

 

 

 

Been thinking about the new DG Possessed. It's hard to think of a more improved unit pre-everything else we haven't seen yet:

• T5 instead of T4
• Core
• 4 attacks instead of D3
• Plague Weapons
• -1D from DR
• 3 wounds

I should probably start figuring out how I'm going to convert mine.

 

Contagions of Nurgle

 

Text:

 

 

Ability text:

If every unit from your army has the DEATH GUARD keyword (excluding UNALIGNED units), this unit gains the following ability:

Nurgle's Gift (Contagion): While an enemy unit is within Contagion Range of this unit (see opposite), subtract 1 from the Toughness characteristic of models in that enemy unit.

Round 1: 1" range

Round 2: 3" range

Round 3: 6" range

Round 4: 9" range

While similar to aura abilities, Contagion abilities are not affected by any abilities that affect Aura abilities, or vice-versa.

 

Well, well, well. After the down of yesterday the rollercoaster is going up, up, up. Still a bit sore concerning the DR, precisely because in my imagination it is so thematically important to Death Guard (that's my problem primarily really, the "plague marine sometimes shrugging off a wounds that should have killed it" part, is so thematically ingrained in my mind as Death Guard), but this is pretty fantastic. The aura also goes far enough out on Turn 3 and 4 to actually probably encompass several units, it is strong. And from turn 1, our melee specialists are freaking a hell of a lot more dangerous in melee in various weapon configurations. Even plagueknives, who also got the surprising but very nice -1 AP becomes almost a dangerous weapon.

Yeah, this was nice.

 

 

It is somewhat bizarre that GW is apparently seeing DG as a melee army now. It is welcome to have a new way to play. I still prefer my shoot first and stand the longest way of playing DG but these trickling in rules do show promise for melee DG lists.

 

Yeah. Know how you feel. But at least this does actually give us some options we did not previously have. Like you I am having problems with swallowing the Feel No Pain nerf, but this Contaigon rule do indeed make us much more potent in melee. It is a bit strange concerning the play style, but the contagion rule does at least thematically make a lot of sense. And it is a strong rule that actually does something tangible.

 

 

It is a better rule than the new DR. In fact it is the only rule we've seen so far that I would rate beyond worthless to meh. If you run melee PM and Blightlords with say melee Helbrutes in there as well this Contagion rule could do some work.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

Been thinking about the new DG Possessed. It's hard to think of a more improved unit pre-everything else we haven't seen yet:

• T5 instead of T4
• Core
• 4 attacks instead of D3
• Plague Weapons
• -1D from DR
• 3 wounds

I should probably start figuring out how I'm going to convert mine.

 

Contagions of Nurgle

 

Text:

 

 

Ability text:

If every unit from your army has the DEATH GUARD keyword (excluding UNALIGNED units), this unit gains the following ability:

Nurgle's Gift (Contagion): While an enemy unit is within Contagion Range of this unit (see opposite), subtract 1 from the Toughness characteristic of models in that enemy unit.

Round 1: 1" range

Round 2: 3" range

Round 3: 6" range

Round 4: 9" range

While similar to aura abilities, Contagion abilities are not affected by any abilities that affect Aura abilities, or vice-versa.

 

Well, well, well. After the down of yesterday the rollercoaster is going up, up, up. Still a bit sore concerning the DR, precisely because in my imagination it is so thematically important to Death Guard (that's my problem primarily really, the "plague marine sometimes shrugging off a wounds that should have killed it" part, is so thematically ingrained in my mind as Death Guard), but this is pretty fantastic. The aura also goes far enough out on Turn 3 and 4 to actually probably encompass several units, it is strong. And from turn 1, our melee specialists are freaking a hell of a lot more dangerous in melee in various weapon configurations. Even plagueknives, who also got the surprising but very nice -1 AP becomes almost a dangerous weapon.

Yeah, this was nice.

 

This will help bolters too, with Drones, Haulers, Helbrutes, etc. closing in to do their thing and weakening the units they don't target, which will then be mowed down by following Plague Marines as the Daemon Engines plow in past them. Also, Turn 3 is Grenade range, which can get fun, and both Morty and the Malignifier will always have a 9 inch range.

Edited December 11, 2020 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Seahawk]

Drones with spitters auto-hitting, wounding marines on a rerollable 2+...mmmmm, blorpy.

[Karhedron]

Drones with spitters auto-hitting, wounding marines on a rerollable 2+...mmmmm, blorpy.

That can also fire in melee in 9th. That's just nasty!

[Plaguecaster]

This is amazing and really looking forward to reading the benefits with it

My plague caster sure got even more deadly hitting marines on 2s with his corrupted staff just a shame it doesn't have plague weapon, a plague caster with a deathshrouf bodyguard will so lovely especially depending 9n the other deadly pathogen rules just wish they'd show us poxwalkers already dammit if they have contagion it'll be pretty amazing especially if they give them some sort of rule that let's you shoot a unit they are in contact with even if in combat

Edited December 11, 2020 by Plaguecaster

[Marshal Loss]

corrupted staff just a shame it doesn't have plague weapon

It might in the new book!

[Balerion84]

 

 

Honestly, forget Plague Marines, if priced right, I'm sure they'll do just fine. I'm more worried about Morty at this point... although, at least this and his T8 makes him a bit better against Nightbringer.

Funny you mention the Nightbringer. Because.... You can still one-round Mortarion with the Nightbringer.

 

The fact that he DOESN'T have the "Can only take 4 Wounds per phase" ability somewhere is galling. Especially because, let's be honest here, he's going to be a 500 point or so model (because remember: 25PL is 500 Point games, and Mortarion is 25PL)

As someone who'll be playing against the Nightbringer quite a lot, have to say, it is kind of sad. At least 8w/phase would've been nice. Plus possibly no defense against MW doesn't help either...

[Bulwyf]

 

 

Honestly, forget Plague Marines, if priced right, I'm sure they'll do just fine. I'm more worried about Morty at this point... although, at least this and his T8 makes him a bit better against Nightbringer.

Funny you mention the Nightbringer. Because.... You can still one-round Mortarion with the Nightbringer.

 

The fact that he DOESN'T have the "Can only take 4 Wounds per phase" ability somewhere is galling. Especially because, let's be honest here, he's going to be a 500 point or so model (because remember: 25PL is 500 Point games, and Mortarion is 25PL)

As someone who'll be playing against the Nightbringer quite a lot, have to say, it is kind of sad. At least 8w/phase would've been nice. Plus possibly no defense against MW doesn't help either...

 

 

I play against Nightbringer as well and he is incredibly OP. Anything he comes into contact with just dies. Anyone who thinks Morty can survive him is just wrong.  

[Debauchery101]

Are there any hints at possible adoptions and divorces of Units between DG and Chaos Marines?

I really want master of possession,warpsmith. venomcrawlers, greater possessed and a Chosen style unit option. Seems like DG are still going to be very bland if you want to play mostly infantry

[Special Officer Doofy]

I for one don't want access to those units, gives the main codex Legions toys we don't have, because we have plenty of toys they don't have. Minus characters (which we have alot of) as infantry we have plague marines as troops (as apposed to elites), poxwalkers, possessed with plague weapons (which might stretch to the main csm codex, we shall see), blight lord terminators and death shroud terminators. So not tooooo bad for infantry.

 

Dont get me wrong, I really want to paint up a disco lord, but I think it's fair the main codex have some toys we don't. I like our Daemon engines more than the main dex, specially now that the hauler and drones have 9W each.

 

I have not seen anything about getting access to units we didn't have prior. Hopefully the codex drops in January.

[WickedJester1013]

Well in the trailer for the new war zone campaign book you can see typhus standing in front of a disco lord while the talks about abbadon

[Special Officer Doofy]

Well in the trailer for the new war zone campaign book you can see typhus standing in front of a disco lord while the talks about abbadon

I thought the same thing, someone mentioned to me the disco lord was the ambassador from abbadon to talk to typhus, so doesn't necessarily translate to we get them. I wonder what our new lord will have for rules, they originally said he will support Daemon engines. Maybe they are rolling that 4++ aura into him? Cause I doubt it will be +1bs/ws now that all the engines got that anyways.

[WickedJester1013]

While I think it is important to keep the flavor and feel or armies separate or you end up a different color of black legion kinda deal, I think some of the separation is silly. We can have possessed but not greater possessed? We kept plasma and melta weapons but forgot how to use missile launchers? Yet obviously have them because the blight haulers have them lol. Plague obilterators would be awesome.

[Marshal Loss]

Absolutely 0 chance of the Lord Discordant being put in the DG book. I mean, the guy in the trailer was in BL colours while Typhus spoke about being Abaddon's proxy...

 

Death Guard infantry not using heavy weapons is a thematic restriction based on Mortarion's tactical doctrine. We couldn't use lascannons or missiles or autocannons or heavy bolters as DG players in the days of IA or CSM 3.5 either.

 

A lot of the separation is obviously going to be arbitrary, but that's the price we pay for flavour. Once you start adding units from the main book it's hard to know where the line should be drawn. Frankly our roster is fine as is. I'd be down to receive dedicated Death Guard versions (preferably with models) of some units in the future, but would still prefer they add weird stuff that nobody else has access to.

 

e: spelling

Edited December 13, 2020 by Marshal Loss

[Dark Legionnare]

Absolutely 0 chance of the Lord Discordant being put in the DG book. I mean, the guy in the trailer was in BL colours while Typhus spoke about being Abaddon's proxy...

 

Death Guard infantry not using heavy weapons is a thematic restriction based on Mortarion's tactical doctrine. We couldn't use lascannons or missiles or autocannons or heavy bolters as DG players in the days of IA or CSM 3.5 either.

 

A lot of the separation is obviously going to be arbitrary, but that's the price we pay for flavour. Once you start adding units from the main book it's hard to know where to the line should be drawn. Frankly our roster is fine as is. I'd be down to receive dedicated Death Guard versions (preferably with models) of some units in the future, but would still prefer they add weird stuff that nobody else has access to.

I concur.

 

That said, it always struck me as a bit weird that the only infantry gun we had in the codex that benefited from moving and firing heavy weapons not being a thing, was the stubber on cultists.

 

I wouldn't say no to at least a missile launchers that fire "krak, and blight" missiles (Blight grenade profile instead of frag). 1 ML possible per 10 marines. So, 2 possible in a big 20 man squad, or 1 per 10, or 1 per under 10 in size. That would certainly be fluffy, all the more delivery methods for filthy plague burstings in enemy lines.

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Dark Legionnare

[jgascoine011]

Wasn't mortarion all about the heavy weapons?

In 30k you not take the heavy weapon squads as troops right?

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

Bolter, melta and flamer were now the trinity of weapons around which their wargear was based, keeping supply needs to a minimum. Other types of ranged weapons were deployed sparingly only as the tactical situation or nature of the enemy demanded.

 

Big difference between 30k & 40k anyway, Plague Marines have never been depicted with heavy weapons (except in Dawn of War II AFAIK). Ngl, I'd be down for some kind of HSS with phosphex missiles or the like. I'm fine with it being the way it is though

[Closet Skeleton]

We kept plasma and melta weapons but forgot how to use missile launchers? Yet obviously have them because the blight haulers have them lol.

Old fluff was that Death Guard deliberately didn't use heavy weapons because they conflicted with their 'always advance' tactical style. Blight Haulers make sense in that context because they're a mobile support unit.

[Debauchery101]

Im Wanting some of infantry born medium-kinda long range shooting so we don't have to rely as much on needing crawlers and defilers. Also I want venomcrawlers and MoP because we need characters that synergize better with daemon engines and possessed. Venomcrawlers also perform very well in melee and have decent ranged attacks. Theyre easier to fit into more of an infantry army. Defilers are amazing being some of our best ranged and arguably the best HTH unit allows them to be be very flexible but theyre expensive to put into your list. With the contagions buff for being monofaction takes away souping nurgle daemons or chaos marines like red corsairs to fill gaps the DG list has.

The thing with DG in general is that they don't have much variation in play styles to do well. DG and TS being monotheistic should let them run daemons of their God without limiting them in anyway...like how do plague marines become less Contagious when they have nurglings and plague bearers around? Makes no sense

Edited December 13, 2020 by Debauchery101