Possible changes in the new codex.

[Bulwyf]

The forty percent increase on MBH is insane. Unless they are getting a 1+++ in the codex I'm struggling to see what justifies that point cost.

[jgascoine011]

It could be that the points are taking into account their weapons

[Dark Legionnare]

It could be that the points are taking into account their weapons

Nope. They're 100 right now, even with the 45 for their MM and ML accounted for in that cost.

 

It's a big hike for +1BS, +1W, and +1Shot for their meltas.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Dark Legionnare

[Balerion84]

For someone who last year bought 3 more MBHs (for a total of 6) instead of 2nd PBC, the points increase is a BIT worrying. I hope they get more for the points than just +1WS/BS, T and W, new MM while getting worse DR...

[Iron Sage]

The forty percent increase on MBH is insane. Unless they are getting a 1+++ in the codex I'm struggling to see what justifies that point cost.

I would like to note, that in my opinion it was under-costed previously and probably slightly too strong for the points. I would also like to note that it now cost 20 points more than a dreadnought with the same weapon configuration (Multi_melta + ML). But it has 2 extra movement compared to a Dreadnought, meaning it is easier to get in range with the multi-melta and it also has a tertiary plague weapon (which isn't very effective, but still).

On that basis, I think it is slightly over-costed, maybe with 5-10 points, but no more. It is still a good unit. Unlike Dreadnoughts you can also run it in squads still. It is easy to get blinded by the large 40% increase in cost, I was too in the beginning, but since they have made it a Dreadnought equivalent it should be compared with those.

Also, if the "give cover rule" still applies, it might not be over-costed at all despite FNP nerf. After all, it did use to be damn strong, and imo too strong for the points previously (a good reason everyone went wild with buying several of them, they were just too good imo).

Edited January 9, 2021 by Iron Sage

[Wolf Lord Loki]

 

 

The forty percent increase on MBH is insane. Unless they are getting a 1+++ in the codex I'm struggling to see what justifies that point cost.

I would like to note, that in my opinion it was under-costed previously and probably slightly too strong for the points. I would also like to note that it now cost 20 points more than a dreadnought with the same weapon configuration (Multi_melta + ML). But it has 2 extra movement compared to a Dreadnought, meaning it is easier to get in range with the multi-melta and it also has a tertiary plague weapon (which isn't very effective, but still).

On that basis, I think it is slightly over-costed, maybe with 5-10 points, but no more. It is still a good unit. Unlike Dreadnoughts you can also run it in squads still. It is easy to get blinded by the large 40% increase in cost, I was too in the beginning, but since they have made it a Dreadnought equivalent it should be compared with those.

Also, if the "give cover rule" still applies, it might not be over-costed at all despite FNP nerf. After all, it did use to be damn strong, and imo too strong for the points previously (a good reason everyone went wild with buying several of them, they were just too good imo).

That is a pretty good assessment actually.

 

Depending on what happens their shrouding fog abilities it might be costed accurately.

 

But nobody wants that!

[Dark Legionnare]

 

 

 

The forty percent increase on MBH is insane. Unless they are getting a 1+++ in the codex I'm struggling to see what justifies that point cost.

I would like to note, that in my opinion it was under-costed previously and probably slightly too strong for the points. I would also like to note that it now cost 20 points more than a dreadnought with the same weapon configuration (Multi_melta + ML). But it has 2 extra movement compared to a Dreadnought, meaning it is easier to get in range with the multi-melta and it also has a tertiary plague weapon (which isn't very effective, but still).

On that basis, I think it is slightly over-costed, maybe with 5-10 points, but no more. It is still a good unit. Unlike Dreadnoughts you can also run it in squads still. It is easy to get blinded by the large 40% increase in cost, I was too in the beginning, but since they have made it a Dreadnought equivalent it should be compared with those.

Also, if the "give cover rule" still applies, it might not be over-costed at all despite FNP nerf. After all, it did use to be damn strong, and imo too strong for the points previously (a good reason everyone went wild with buying several of them, they were just too good imo).

That is a pretty good assessment actually.

Depending on what happens their shrouding fog abilities it might be costed accurately.

But nobody wants that!

Edited January 9, 2021 by Dark Legionnare

[Iron Sage]

 

 

 

The forty percent increase on MBH is insane. Unless they are getting a 1+++ in the codex I'm struggling to see what justifies that point cost.

I would like to note, that in my opinion it was under-costed previously and probably slightly too strong for the points. I would also like to note that it now cost 20 points more than a dreadnought with the same weapon configuration (Multi_melta + ML). But it has 2 extra movement compared to a Dreadnought, meaning it is easier to get in range with the multi-melta and it also has a tertiary plague weapon (which isn't very effective, but still).

On that basis, I think it is slightly over-costed, maybe with 5-10 points, but no more. It is still a good unit. Unlike Dreadnoughts you can also run it in squads still. It is easy to get blinded by the large 40% increase in cost, I was too in the beginning, but since they have made it a Dreadnought equivalent it should be compared with those.

Also, if the "give cover rule" still applies, it might not be over-costed at all despite FNP nerf. After all, it did use to be damn strong, and imo too strong for the points previously (a good reason everyone went wild with buying several of them, they were just too good imo).

That is a pretty good assessment actually.

Depending on what happens their shrouding fog abilities it might be costed accurately.

But nobody wants that!

Agreed for the most part. They were always analogous to dreads, even moreso now that they're WS/BS3+.

 

Only thing that has me even rolling my eyes a bit is the DR change.

 

Especially in a world where things like Eradicators got adjusted with a minor slap on the wrist for points, I still can't help but feel like any vehicles are always just a big risk. For sure, they have -1DMG from new DR, an invuln, those are well and good.

 

But, ESPECIALLY if they still are a multi-model unit, they just feel like a risk. Doubly so since they want to be at least semi aggressive with their 24" MM range, outstripping zoning forces more than likely.

 

I mean, my local group recognizes how F'in ridiculous Eradicators are, and only ever run one unit. But damn son, lucky dice or even just average dice with them often turns vehicles in a list into Enron level bad investments. (Especially my poor Leman Russes, christ on a cracker...). I feel for anybody facing two units or more with the new DR.

 

I think most of us loathes the FNP nerf. I certainly do and think it was very unnecessary, but it is what it is. And I expect Bligthlords and Deathshroud to get an invul nerf as well and it frustrates me that certain loyalist termie configs (looking at Dark Angels) will be more hardy than our 10 000 year old veterans, but I guess we have to accept that all terminators over the board have nerfed invul and that storm shields is a thing, and just deal with it. But it is annoying, as lore-wise, I prefer Death Guard to be the most resilient all over of Astartes. The idea that FNP/DR does nothing against Dam 1 weapons grinds on me as well.

 

But it is probably not the end of the world. Rest of the codex updates, I find very fascinating and exciting ,and I am giddy like a teenager for the codex to get released so I can digest it !

 

As for Eradicators, they are probably too cheap still, which is a bit annoying, I agree.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Iron Sage

[Plaguecaster]

Would be nice if the different plague companies actually gave army wide traits rules instead of being one relic, warlord trait and stratagem but I doubt that will happen. I'm looking forward to seeing what the rest of the deadly pathogen do as I'm going to enjoy actually being able to make my plaguecaster quite deadly juat wish they'd get some form of an imv save since they lost their only other save that was DR

[McElMcNinja]

I was able to run two games today against scions, they had lots and lots of plasma. My take aways were screening, our -1T aura and we are a melee army. Anything and everything I touched in combat died. Over the course of the two games I destroyed 13 vehicles in melee plus countless infantry. All of my killing came from a squad of 10 PM’s, 2 units of 5 BL’s, and a DP. Everything else I brought was basically just a screen to protect those units. My list included 2 defilers, 2 drones, some poxwalkers, and a few characters. Those units got me early board control and soaked up fire while the other units got into position. Again, anything that close to me died.

At first I couldn’t understand why our squads got limited to 10, but after today I get it. I ran 2 flails, 2 spewers, a plasma, and 5 bolters. I felt like I wasted points on anything above 1 flail unless I charged 3 units.

While we don’t have good (or any) AP, with the -1T we wound a lot. Taking advantage of that will be important.

Just my pre-dex observations.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

 

At first I couldn’t understand why our squads got limited to 10, but after today I get it.

Actually I'm not sure we are.

 

If you look at the powerlevel list we can take upto about 20.

 

I think its basically a copy/paste issue. It makes not difference to the individual model points value if you choice 1, 10 or 20 they will still be 21pts each

 

It will effect the power levels though.

 

But this is only one thought because the powerlevel update does not have the Malignanifier in it either so either could be a mistake

[McElMcNinja]

If Nurgle Daemons were going to be in the DG dex, do you think we would have seen points for them?

[Marshal Loss]

If Nurgle Daemons were going to be in the DG dex, do you think we would have seen points for them?

Yep. They won't be in the book

[MasterDeath]

Good thing they left deamons out. Its very confusing for new Players. We have a TS beginner in our group, and explaining her that Horrors are not a proper troop for TS was exhausting. Edited January 10, 2021 by MasterDeath

[ChargingSoll]

Good thing they left deamons out. Its very confusing for new Players. We have a TS beginner in our group, and explaining her that Horrors are not a proper troop for TS was exhausting.

I thought it was for daemon summoning. Each cult can summon their own daemons without the need of another codex.

[WickedJester1013]

The daemons where in the book at the beginning of 8th when it didn’t break army rules to run nurglings, but those were the days of imperial soup armies.

[Debauchery101]

Who likes the new patrol box???

[Marshal Loss]

Doubt it's going to fly off the shelves. At least I finally get my hands on the Lord of Virulence, which I adore.

 

Not super pleased with GW's release selection to accompany the book but so long as the codex meets expectations, all will be forgiven

[Raktra]

I think they tend to shoot themselves in the foot somewhat when they release a full Codex with only one or two models to accompany it, the scramble to have a set amount of "extras" alongside leads to these odd wee boxes.

Buuuut yeah, I'm at like 7-8kpts of smelly boys, so I can't really complain. Gimme dat Codex and Lord Spooge.

[Debauchery101]

Everyone i know has at least 1 dark imperium set. the patrol costs as much as the 8th box. They could of st least put a rhino in or made it a 10 man unit. Edited January 10, 2021 by Debauchery101

[Irate Khornate]

Who likes the new patrol box???

[Raktra]

Everyone i know has at least 1 dark imperium set. the patrol costs as much as the 8th box. They could of st least put a rhino in or made it a 10 man unit.

Aye, I feel like a Blight-Hauler would have been both better for the starter force, and more fitting to current patterns, than grenade boy. At least it’s got the best HQ of the lot so far.

[Debauchery101]

I sometimes don't get GW. There is a huge amount of chaos marine players of all types just waiting to add new stuff to their collection. If they threw in both DG heros sets most of the world had no real access to and the new HQ with some deathshrouds. It would be in huge demand. I'd pay the 140 or so for it. 2x7 squads, HQ and bodyguards.

As of right now anyone saying 30 poxwalkers is a great place to start...how do you know? Unless there's some major fart coming out of Nurgles sweaty crack to bless them soon...they looking less attractive to cultists that are the same points. 10x3 of the same dudes to paint/build who mostly get 1 rounded quite often is not a great intro unit.

[Irate Khornate]

I sometimes don't get GW. There is a huge amount of chaos marine players of all types just waiting to add new stuff to their collection. If they threw in both DG heros sets most of the world had no real access to and the new HQ with some deathshrouds. It would be in huge demand. I'd pay the 140 or so for it. 2x7 squads, HQ and bodyguards.

As of right now anyone saying 30 poxwalkers is a great place to start...how do you know? Unless there's some major fart coming out of Nurgles sweaty crack to bless them soon...they looking less attractive to cultists that are the same points. 10x3 of the same dudes to paint/build who mostly get 1 rounded quite often is not a great intro unit.

I know because as someone who doesn't have any Death Guard, it's where I'd like to start. Do I speak for everyone? No. But it's a box that contains iconic units and 2 gets a good chunk of the troops out of the way.

[Marshal Loss]

 

I sometimes don't get GW. There is a huge amount of chaos marine players of all types just waiting to add new stuff to their collection. If they threw in both DG heros sets most of the world had no real access to and the new HQ with some deathshrouds. It would be in huge demand. I'd pay the 140 or so for it. 2x7 squads, HQ and bodyguards.

As of right now anyone saying 30 poxwalkers is a great place to start...how do you know? Unless there's some major fart coming out of Nurgles sweaty crack to bless them soon...they looking less attractive to cultists that are the same points. 10x3 of the same dudes to paint/build who mostly get 1 rounded quite often is not a great intro unit.

I know because as someone who doesn't have any Death Guard, it's where I'd like to start. Do I speak for everyone? No. But it's a box that contains iconic units and 2 gets a good chunk of the troops out of the way.

 

Nobody's disputing its appeal for some new players. However, GW could have made it a better pickup for a far broader spectrum of players without compromising said appeal for newbies. On that front it is undoubtedly a swing and a miss. Not the end of the world, but it is what it is