Predicting Primaris: What will the next wave bring?

[Ishagu]

On top of that, Primaris aren't just upscaled Marines. Most units are significantly different, and they aren't just bigger versions of old things.

[Gederas]

On top of that, Primaris aren't just upscaled Marines. Most units are significantly different, and they aren't just bigger versions of old things.

-cracks open Horus Heresy Red Book, flips through the pages. Insert Sam Neill implied facepalm-

 

Yeah.... Significantly different... Totally not just bigger versions of Legion squads....

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Gederas

[Ishagu]

I've always said they have more in common with the 30k Legion units.

 

They actually have as much in common with the various Xenos units in 40k as anything else. A unit built with a specific purpose. EG: Inceptors, Eradicators, Bladeguard Vets, etc, etc.

 

This is what makes them a better designed faction than the classic Astartes.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Ishagu

[Blindhamster]

 

On top of that, Primaris aren't just upscaled Marines. Most units are significantly different, and they aren't just bigger versions of old things.

-cracks open Horus Heresy Red Book, flips through the pages. Insert Sam Neill implied facepalm-

 

Yeah.... Significantly different... Totally not just bigger versions of Legion squads....

Probably should have said "not just upscaled 40k squads" to avoid pedantry I guess, but yeah nobody is silly enough to think they didn't look at 30k squad dynamics (which, as Ishagu said, actually ape 40k xenos design) and use that as a base for the primaris units.

 

The approach makes them less customisable from a unit perspective than traditional 40k squads, much like 30k ones (although I still think veteran intercessors should have been full mix and match and been allowed power weapons etc, like 30k veteran squads). Miniature design wise, the customisability is open to interpretation, I know lots of people feel the ability to turn the torso a mm or maybe 2 without it looking dumb makes them significantly more customisable, but I've never really agreed on that point, plus the people that interested in conversions usually get pretty good with a knife quickly anyway!

 

 

 

Anyway, back on topic. I still don't see there being another "big" primaris wave for a long while, I think we'll maybe see some releases with black templars, probably entirely chapter specific and making them the only chapter to get truly unique kits outside of characters. But then i suspect we'll start to see the same for other chapters following that.

 

I'd still like a melee jump infantry unit though...

[Brother Kraskor]

If it hasn't been suggested already, they'll come out with a Venerable/siege redemptor at some point I'd have thought.

[Robbienw]

Jes himself said that when designing Tacticus, it was pretty much what he'd have done had he the knowledge and skills back when original armour designs were made.

 

 

Where did he say that?  The abundance of historical Jes produced marine concept art doesn't bare this out...

[Blindhamster]

 

Jes himself said that when designing Tacticus, it was pretty much what he'd have done had he the knowledge and skills back when original armour designs were made.

 

 

Where did he say that?  The abundance of historical Jes produced marine concept art doesn't bare this out...

 

in person to me when I asked him about the designs a few years ago (specifically at an event, I was lucky enough to get about an hour chatting to him with (surprisingly) not many people around. He went into a lot of detail behind why things were the way they were in the new designs and how he wanted things to be more logical in many areas (he even talked about the inceptors and their enclosed helm things that hadn't been shown off at the time, i just didn't get the reference).

 

was a lovely conversation.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Blindhamster

[Robbienw]

 

 

Jes himself said that when designing Tacticus, it was pretty much what he'd have done had he the knowledge and skills back when original armour designs were made.

 

 

Where did he say that?  The abundance of historical Jes produced marine concept art doesn't bare this out...

 

in person to me when I asked him about the designs a few years ago (specifically at an event, I was lucky enough to get about an hour chatting to him with (surprisingly) not many people around. He went into a lot of detail behind why things were the way they were in the new designs and how he wanted things to be more logical in many areas (he even talked about the inceptors and their enclosed helm things that hadn't been shown off at the time, i just didn't get the reference).

 

was a lovely conversation.

 

 

That's a nice anecdote.  If only he had have been able to realise his vision back in the late 80's/early 90's.  Would have saved me thousands over the years :lol:

[Blindhamster]

I guess his own preferences just changed, he never once said he didn't like the old designs, without them the new ones wouldn't have happened. This was just the evolution he wanted and if he'd had the skills, knowledge and tools he does now back then what the earlier designs would have been like would be much closer to what we are getting now. But again, he never once said he didn't like the old ones, the opposite in fact.

much like I love classic marine designs, I don't like their proportions but thats just personal preference, much like you don't like primaris proportions.

Anyway, I just brought it up as its one of those rare times where I got to have a proper chat with a guy that has impacted my life for over 20 years :)

[Blindhamster]

I suppose one other thing I do predict:

At some point we absolutely are going to get some kind of "crossed the rubicon" veteran squad that is primaris mk X but uses far more parts from earlier sets. I think there could be some potential for cool nods in such a set.

[jaxom]

much like I love classic marine designs, I don't like their proportions but thats just personal preference, much like you don't like primaris proportions.

 

It’s the arms that always bothered me. They can’t reach across their chests and that limits a lot of options.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I've always said they have more in common with the 30k Legion units.

 

They actually have as much in common with the various Xenos units in 40k as anything else. A unit built with a specific purpose. EG: Inceptors, Eradicators, Bladeguard Vets, etc, etc.

 

This is what makes them a better designed faction than the classic Astartes.

Yeah I'd agree with this, when I first started 40k in third edition with Eldar I almost immediately was trying to just run Aspect Warriors. Primaris really feel like that style of list without the wave serpents (which honestly overshadowed the aspect warriors themselves most editions lol).

 

Intercessors are tougher more functional dire avengers.

Inceptors are warp spiders.

Hellblasters are dark reapers.

Reivers are bad striking scorpions.

Aggressors really don't have a great comparison with aspect warriors but are very similar to wraithguard.

 

It still feels like its giving me that challenge of making an all comers list by blending together specialists :).

[jeremy1391]

We still need a dedicated Primaris plane! And damnit I want jump packs for Assault Intercessors

[Guest]

I have a feeling the next waves of primaris will be chapter specific and not generic. The current primaris fulfill the basic foundation of everyone.

 

However if I were to guess, I would say a flyer is required/next.

[cretacianborn]

I have a feeling the next waves of primaris will be chapter specific and not generic. The current primaris fulfill the basic foundation of everyone.

 

However if I were to guess, I would say a flyer is required/next.

I'm inclined to agree with you. We've got the rumblings of a Templar release which have been floating around for a while now. I also just finished Devastation of Baal for the second time and was reminded that only a single Sanguinary guard survived. Surely they'll have to be reinforced with at least some Primaris going forwards?

[MegaVolt87]

I thought it wouldn't be possible for venerable primaris dreads because the primaris ones eventually kill/ make their occupants insane necessitating the plug to be pulled like levithan dreadnaughts. I don't blame the pimaris to copy 30k's homework, I think its an outstanding move to get old vets like myself to accept them more. The primaris vets should have had a chainsword in addition to their bolt rifles + X amount of melee weapon upgrades option from the sarge list, grenade launchers x4 option. That's a veteran unit right there. 

[Guest]

I thought it wouldn't be possible for venerable primaris dreads because the primaris ones eventually kill/ make their occupants insane necessitating the plug to be pulled like levithan dreadnaughts. I don't blame the pimaris to copy 30k's homework, I think its an outstanding move to get old vets like myself to accept them more. The primaris vets should have had a chainsword in addition to their bolt rifles + X amount of melee weapon upgrades option from the sarge list, grenade launchers x4 option. That's a veteran unit right there. 

 

Remember dreadnoughts do not have the firstborn/primaris keywords, so are agnostic. So a Primaris could possibly be put into a castraferrum dreadnought. Despite this I agree I wanted to see more dreadnoughts as the lack of melee options is dissapointing.

[WrathOfTheLion]

They're cutting limbs and all off the astartes to get him in there regardless, shouldn't be too hard to make a Primaris fit in a castraferrum.

 

I don't think assault intercessors will get jump packs, because they're a troop choice. They'll separate them out so that the ones on foot are troops, while those with a jump pack are fast attack.

 

Something new has to come for the Bladeguard I would think as well. For DA, they have Bladeguard in the Deathwing, but it's immediately obvious that the BGV don't get obsec, and so whatever Primaris constitute that formation are not fully realized yet. 

 

I think we'll see some chapter-specific stuff soon too. Things that come to mind to me would be a smaller release like an Interrogator-Chaplain for DA, a Rune Priest for SW and a Sanguinary Priest for BA for instance. Something like that would go a long way without too much work I think, so it's a good candidate.

Edited March 11, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Ishagu]

Redemptor Dreads can be manufactured relatively easy. Why use the inferior patterns?

 

It's both a benefit and a mercy to put an Astartes in one. You get a superior combat walker and an eventual end to the life of suffering for the human inside.

[Guest]

Because the castaferrum doesn't burn out the pilot. If you have a highly honored marine, you want to keep him around for awhile.

[WrathOfTheLion]

They're venerable relics, any space marine would be extremely honoured to be cut down to size and stuck in it.

[Robbienw]

Castaferrum and Contemptor patterns are much more flexible in terms of weapon outfits.  The Castaferrum is still more suited as well to one of its orginal design tasks; fighting in close confines in cities and ships.  The Redemptor is an addition to the dreadnought family, not a replacement for existing patterns.

[Ishagu]

Because the castaferrum doesn't burn out the pilot. If you have a highly honored marine, you want to keep him around for awhile.

I get that, but in the more enlightened age that Guilliman is heralding, keeping the near-dead in a coffin for centuries isn't the kindest thing in the world.

 

As for weapon load-outs or flexibility, those are just linked to tabletop model limitations - there isn't any lore reason why a Redemptor can't be armed with a Quad LasCannon, or Auto Cannons or something. In the future they might get more options.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Ishagu

[Gederas]

Because the castaferrum doesn't burn out the pilot. If you have a highly honored marine, you want to keep him around for awhile.

I get that, but in the more enlightened age that Guilliman is heralding, keeping the near-dead in a coffin for centuries isn't the kindest thing in the world.

Uhhhh.... Guilliman is from an age where Marines did exactly that mate. In fact, iirc, Guilliman was more than a bit peeved when he found out that flaw with the Redemptor

Edited March 11, 2021 by Gederas

[Ishagu]

Lol you're probably right. I think I'm projecting my own morality into the setting.