Predicting Primaris: What will the next wave bring?

[Marshal Reinhard]

Heavy (Gravis) Assault Intercessors with Eviscerators. Is my go to pet unit that I want to be made a reality.

[Emurian]

We don’t need jump assault if you can take way five Outriders per squad like deathwatch and the sergeant can have a decent melee weapon.

BBF makes a solid point here imo. If you stop looking at the Outrider models, and just look at their Datasheet. These guys are in my eyes the ''primaris jump pack variant''. They move fast and make a load of attacks on the charge.

 

The downside as mentioned, small squad size and more so no sergeant with decent weapons. If they let the squad go to 6 and the Sarge can take a TH then said unit will function like assault marines. (I was speculating they would be 3-6 so I got 15 of the dudes. . .)

 

I am not sure how people imagine a ''primaris assault marine'' to distinct himself from an outrider while at the same time showing actual distinction with the regular assault marines. 

 

I don't really want a new model. What I rather would like to see are changes to the transports allowing firstborn / primaris to share the transport capacity. With the W2 firstborn change I don't see a reason anymore to not allow primaris to use rhino's or such. You are also not going to tell me that primaris marines dont fit their fat asses in a landraider whereas centurions and terminators are able to do so. . I also find it very strange that the impulsor only has a transport capability of 6. Initially I reasoned, well 6 primaris are W12 total vs a W10 total of firstborn in Rhino's so this kinda feels like a balance how much wounds a transport can take. This no longer holds truth so I do not see a reason anymore to put these limitations on the transports.

 

 

 

 

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

For Dark Angels chapters, jump assault would be in Greenwing while outriders are in Ravenwing. Pretty big distinction there for them, as outriders can only be in 2nd Company.

 

As well that they're an iconic thing. They should be there, regardless.

[Emurian]

You are looking at lore and aesthethics, what I am trying to point out is how the datasheet of a primaris assault marine should differ from the outriders or regular assault marines to make them feel distinct. Imo the outriders are fullfilling the role of assault marines with the main drawback being that the sergeant is unable to take any decent dedicated melee weapons. 

Outriders are T5 W4, what would you expect Primaris assault marines to have statwise? Gravis armour like T5 W3? Is that difference enough to make people want to run unit A or B depending on a certain list or matchup?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Oh, I don't care if they differ from normal assault marines. Would probably be prudent to just merge the datasheets.

[WARMASTER_]

Jump assault with the old style MKIV backpacks would be a treat! A flyer or drop pod is also needed

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Emurian,

 

I can only speak for myself but when I say jump assault marines, I want something similar to blade guard vets not a replacement for assault marines. They don't have to hit as hard or be as durable as bladeguard but an elite jump pack unit would add another dimension to primaris armies.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I see assault marines with jump packs as extremely low on the priority list.

[jaxom]

You are looking at lore and aesthethics, what I am trying to point out is how the datasheet of a primaris assault marine should differ from the outriders or regular assault marines to make them feel distinct. Imo the outriders are fullfilling the role of assault marines with the main drawback being that the sergeant is unable to take any decent dedicated melee weapons. 

 

Outriders are T5 W4, what would you expect Primaris assault marines to have statwise? Gravis armour like T5 W3? Is that difference enough to make people want to run unit A or B depending on a certain list or matchup?

 

It's an interesting question. Most of what we know about the Primaris plans are from Jes Goodwin and he's firmly in the concept design side of things. It's one reason I find these sorts of threads interesting. There's the "try to predict what will be released" and then there's the "here's what the line needs as an army," while the two are only related by the aesthetics and visuals first and the rules second (listening to rules guy interviewed after about the headache Suppressors gave them was rather funny). The army 'needs' a dedicated assault element (from aesthetics and lore perspective), but already has two from a rules perspective (Bladeguard and Outriders).

[MegaVolt87]

Too easy to just do assault inceptors. Assault bolter + chainsword done. Sarge with an escvisorator option or a plasma upgrade with a chainsword upgrade like other Sarge's. I think that would be enough for a primaris jump assault unit, I would like it myself.

[solarisqc]

There is a big difference between bike and Jump pack. Both have a good move and it's the only thing they share.

 

Bike have long range firepower and move but need to stay on the ground and don't benefit from cover unlike infantry. they use the speed to protect them.

 

Jump pack have DS and the option to move vertical. They can target unit on top of building where bike can't reach.

 

Both unit have use,with different strength and weakness.

[L30n1d4s]

So far GW has not made Primaris units that are exact "replacements" for first born Marines, but rather have gone for Primaris units that are similar in nature/role, but with their own unique loadouts so as to not make first born units completely invalidated (i.e. Intercessors are kind of the counterpart to Tac Marines, with a better gun and extra attack, but lack the SW/HW options, Melta Bomb rule, and multiple transport choices, such as Drop Pods, that Tac Marines have access to).

 

 

Using this as a precedent, my prediction is that GW will likely make some Primaris variations of Jump Pack units, something like the following:

 

 

Evictors

 

M12" WS3+ BS3+ S4 T4 W2 A2 Ld8 Sv3+

(+1A and Ld on Sergeant)

 

Wargear:

-Combat Shield (5++ and +1 to Armour save)

-Neo-Volkite Pistol (same as Primaris Lieutenant -- Pistol 2 S:5 AP0, Dmg2, 6 to Wound cause MWs)

-Power Glaive -- Two profiles:

**Strike -- S:+1 AP-2 Dmg2

**Sweep -- S:User AP-1 Dmg1, gain +2 attacks

 

Special Rules:

-Angels of Death, Death from Above

-Flexibile Tactics-- Evictors can charge on a turn they Fell Back

 

Upgrades:

-Sergeant can replace Power Glaive with PF or TH

-Sergeant can replace Combat Shield and Neo-Volkite Pistol with Storm Shield

 

 

This is obviously just a theoretical idea, but a unit like this would not straight up replace Vanguard Veterans (they still have more weapon options) or Jump Pack Death Company (they still have more raw attacks) or even Inceptors (who have better shooting, T5, and more wounds) -- instead, they would kind of play the role of "multi-purpose, mobile assault unit," with a mix of shooting, mobility, and flexible melee.

 

Hopefully a unit like this would be good enough to justify taking, but not so good that they become "autotake" and make all other Jump troop units obsolete.

Edited January 6, 2021 by L30n1d4s

[Dracos]

Too easy to just do assault inceptors. Assault bolter + chainsword done. Sarge with an escvisorator option or a plasma upgrade with a chainsword upgrade like other Sarge's. I think that would be enough for a primaris jump assault unit, I would like it myself.

 

I was thinking a power sword (not master-crafted) and assault bolter or Storm Shield, but we are definitely in the same ballpark. :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Outriders are way faster than Inceptors and have more wounds.

[War Angel]

Aside from reavers they haven’t released anything that invalidates another unit. I’m imagining that at some point they will give assault intercessors the ability to take jump packs and then send assault squads to legends.

[CCE1981]

I would like to see a Primaris Company Champion, the Gravis and Jump versions of each Character you can have.

[TorvaldTheMild]

This worked in the past for sisters of battle, we should all buy a terminator kit next month to prompt (make) GW design Primaris terminators, I don't know about you but although I love Gravis armour It will never replace terminator armour.  They can give terminator armour 3+ for all I care I want the models.

[Brother Tyler]

This worked in the past for sisters of battle, we should all buy a terminator kit next month to prompt (make) GW design Primaris terminators, I don't know about you but although I love Gravis armour It will never replace terminator armour.  They can give terminator armour 3+ for all I care I want the models.

We've just begun to see the "veteran" Primaris units in the form of the Bladeguard kits. It seems likely that GW, having already planned out the Primaris range, has already designed the replacement for Terminators and it is simply a matter of time until we see them get to them in the release schedule. All a mass buying of Terminators might do is accelerate the schedule a bit - there's no need to prompt GW to design a replacement when they've [probably] already done so.

 

Speaking for myself, I already have a ton of Terminators crying out for paint. I don't need to buy any more in some scheme to get GW to adjust their Primaris release schedule.

 

However, I agree with the principle that none of the Primaris releases that we've seen so far are suitable replacements for Terminators.

 

Note that I've merged TorvaldTheMild's topic about Primaris replacements for Terminators with the ongoing "Primaris Next Wave" discussion since there is so much overlap between the two discussions (i.e., wish-listing for additional Primaris releases).

[Gederas]

This worked in the past for sisters of battle, we should all buy a terminator kit next month to prompt (make) GW design Primaris terminators, I don't know about you but although I love Gravis armour It will never replace terminator armour.  They can give terminator armour 3+ for all I care I want the models.

We've just begun to see the "veteran" Primaris units in the form of the Bladeguard kits. It seems likely that GW, having already planned out the Primaris range, has already designed the replacement for Terminators and it is simply a matter of time until we see them get to them in the release schedule. All a mass buying of Terminators might do is accelerate the schedule a bit - there's no need to prompt GW to design a replacement when they've [probably] already done so.

 

Speaking for myself, I already have a ton of Terminators crying out for paint. I don't need to buy any more in some scheme to get GW to adjust their Primaris release schedule.

 

However, I agree with the principle that none of the Primaris releases that we've seen so far are suitable replacements for Terminators.

 

Note that I've merged TorvaldTheMild's topic about Primaris replacements for Terminators with the ongoing "Primaris Next Wave" discussion since there is so much overlap between the two discussions (i.e., wish-listing for additional Primaris releases).

Agreed. I've got something like 50 Deathwing needing painting myself :lol:

[TorvaldTheMild]

 

This worked in the past for sisters of battle, we should all buy a terminator kit next month to prompt (make) GW design Primaris terminators, I don't know about you but although I love Gravis armour It will never replace terminator armour.  They can give terminator armour 3+ for all I care I want the models.

We've just begun to see the "veteran" Primaris units in the form of the Bladeguard kits. It seems likely that GW, having already planned out the Primaris range, has already designed the replacement for Terminators and it is simply a matter of time until we see them get to them in the release schedule. All a mass buying of Terminators might do is accelerate the schedule a bit - there's no need to prompt GW to design a replacement when they've [probably] already done so.

 

Speaking for myself, I already have a ton of Terminators crying out for paint. I don't need to buy any more in some scheme to get GW to adjust their Primaris release schedule.

 

However, I agree with the principle that none of the Primaris releases that we've seen so far are suitable replacements for Terminators.

 

Note that I've merged TorvaldTheMild's topic about Primaris replacements for Terminators with the ongoing "Primaris Next Wave" discussion since there is so much overlap between the two discussions (i.e., wish-listing for additional Primaris releases).

 

That may be true but profit will make GW or any business move mountains and also even if they don't they WILL bring back terminators anyone who has collected/played 40k as long as I have knows that.  If they get rid of terminators they will for years but then they need new ideas for more profit or they will renew ideas and bring them back again just like so many other units like wulfen etc.  But even regardless of that if everyone bought terminator models for one month and GW saw those sales and the interest, they would undeniably, incontrovertibly, absaloutely bring out Primaris terminators and that's not because I'm super intelligent (I'm a moron) but I understand the free market.

 

Sorry for my grammar I'm drunk.

Edited January 6, 2021 by TorvaldTheMild

[TorvaldTheMild]

 

This worked in the past for sisters of battle, we should all buy a terminator kit next month to prompt (make) GW design Primaris terminators, I don't know about you but although I love Gravis armour It will never replace terminator armour.  They can give terminator armour 3+ for all I care I want the models.

We've just begun to see the "veteran" Primaris units in the form of the Bladeguard kits. It seems likely that GW, having already planned out the Primaris range, has already designed the replacement for Terminators and it is simply a matter of time until we see them get to them in the release schedule. All a mass buying of Terminators might do is accelerate the schedule a bit - there's no need to prompt GW to design a replacement when they've [probably] already done so.

 

Speaking for myself, I already have a ton of Terminators crying out for paint. I don't need to buy any more in some scheme to get GW to adjust their Primaris release schedule.

 

However, I agree with the principle that none of the Primaris releases that we've seen so far are suitable replacements for Terminators.

 

Note that I've merged TorvaldTheMild's topic about Primaris replacements for Terminators with the ongoing "Primaris Next Wave" discussion since there is so much overlap between the two discussions (i.e., wish-listing for additional Primaris releases).

Agreed. I've got something like 50 Deathwing needing painting myself

 

As soon as Primaris came out I started converting my terminators into Primaris height, they look great but on close inspection their legs are so ridiculously small.  

[TorvaldTheMild]

Also I'd like to boast it was me that started the sisters of battle buying month, if you hope and you act everything is possible.

[TheNewman]

We don’t need jump assault if you can take way five Outriders per squad like deathwatch and the sergeant can have a decent melee weapon.

Is an Outrider Sergeant that can make six attacks with a Master-crafted Thunder Hammer really a good thing for the health of the game though?

[L30n1d4s]

Well, a Blood Angels Assault Intercessor Sergeant can already make 10 attacks with a Mastercrafted TH, all with +1 to wound (3A base + 1A charge + 1A super Doctrine.... fight twice with Honour the Chapter), and that is not destroying the game.

[Dracos]

Good point. Mind you the Outrider movement makes him more reliable but Marines are hardly having problems getting our units into melee most days of the week.