More Attacks... For Kabalites? (And other codex reveals)

[GrinNfool]

The PfP change from the 6+++ to 6++ and 5++ on t4 is straight garbage... not sure why people are acting like its a side grade at all.  The army already has 5++ or 6++ on most of their units excluding kabalites and a few other minor units, so either they took that away in which case VERY bad, or it does nothing for most of the army, so its a downgrade.  As far as the rest of the changes generally positive feelings at least, but I don't get why you would make a mediocre army rule on a mediocre army intentionally worse.

 

As for other stuff, master version would be meh but unlocking the trueborn rules, makes it possibly good as long as it isn't cost prohibitive, don't really want to spend 100 points for an archon just to bring Trueborn for example.  Makes me interested to see what rules bloodbrides get and whatever super wracks become.

 

The raiding force rules is an improvement but not what I was hoping for.  At least you can get away with bringing 2 patrols if you want instead of 3 or the radiing force plus a free patrol or 2, not a bad deal.  The realspace raider thing makes me laugh its just 3 mandatory patrols thrown in 1 unit.  Was hoping this would be something that at most required the HQ, forcing the troop in there doesn't really give us much of a benefit over the 3 patrol rule from before, but as stated above that rule is improved anyways.  Would have been nice to just be able to bring a bike squad without having to buy a sucubus and wyches, marines don't gotta buy a biker captain to bring bikes, just saying.  So over all good but hoped for more... Would have liked this to have gone a bit further but at least its a little easier now.

 

Obsessions preview is solid gives hope that the other obsessions will have some cool choices now.

 

Drugs change is fantastic assuming the drugs themselves haven't been messed with. Multiple units of t4 wyches or s5 (if that obsession is still a thing)

 

The relics previewed are kinda whatever they made the djin flat 3, so yay i guess, and the nightmare doll is essentially unchanged.  Feel they could have done a little better with the relic previews but whatever, its a non issue.

 

Basically some good, some meh, and some straight up bad.  I wasn't really expecting any BAD since DE were pretty far from a top tier army, so kinda silly to me to nerf anything on them but yet here we are.  As I have said a few times now though gotta see datasheets to see what rules were kept and any new rules etc for units before really having much of a conclusion though.

[Medjugorje]

Ha....

 

 

if you take the 3 Detachments the costs for those Patroles are reduced to 0. But the 2 CPs you get if your WL is in the first Patrole detachments is nothing said. Means with this Tripple Patrole we start with 14 CPs 

[MithrilForge]

 Well ...you can't please everyone all of the time...well, unless you play Primaris Marines you can 

as said, overall i'm pretty happy with what's happening... cannot wait to see the rest of the rules to get a proper feel for what we can do with our Agile killers 

 

Mithril

[Snazzy]

Ha....

 

 

if you take the 3 Detachments the costs for those Patroles are reduced to 0. But the 2 CPs you get if your WL is in the first Patrole detachments is nothing said. Means with this Tripple Patrole we start with 14 CPs 

 

Am i incorrect that thinking you could take 3 Patrols of any combination of subfactions for 0 CP? 

[Karhedron]

Am i incorrect that thinking you could take 3 Patrols of any combination of subfactions for 0 CP?

You are correct. As long as all detachments in you army are Drukhari Patrols, you can mix between any factions you wish. In fact 2 or 3 Kabal Patrols will probably be superior to a Kabal Battalion since you will get +2CPs as noted above.

[Angel of Death]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/16/we-raided-codex-drukhari-and-found-7-rules-youll-want-to-see/

 

More rules teased today, so many great rules in here. Some Highlights for me were:

 

• The Return of Trueborn and the Wych/Coven equivalents
• Everything with PfP can advance and charge from turn 2, also gets an Invulv from turn 4. Going by other 9th books I imagine there will be some flexibility for increase the turn on this table like Doctrines and Contagion range
• Wych units can take the same combat drugs
• Master Archons are pretty scary with the Djinn blade
• Actually being able to take a mix of units in the new Realspace Raid detachment
• There's now a way (maybe more ways) of increasing Poison weapon's wounding

I'm no longer worried about how Dark Eldar will turn out, these chnages alone are fantastic

OH MY GOD this is so cool. Heheheheh. Elite wrack units. I never thought that would happen. I imagine it being something like wracks with T6 or higher STR, which would make these guys insane and definately so much harder to kill. Increased poison damage would have to be wounding on 3+, i cant make it anything else, unless it would be something like higher strength for increased rerolls, but I dont think so. These increases probably are going to make these guys one of the strongest troop choices in the entire codex. Does anyone oppose this? Or do you agree with me. :D

 

I think these upgrades are insanely good. I mean, are we seeing wracks actually becoming one of the strongest units in the DE codex?

[TrawlingCleaner]

I imagine it'll probably just be a WS increase? Maybe an increase in Attacks? An increase in toughness seems a bit too good considering it's only a points increase for the character. I could definitely be wrong on that though!

 

Only time will tell, Pre-orders go up on Saturday and NDAs will be lifted so codex reviews will start flying up!

[G8Keeper]

I imagine it'll probably just be a WS increase? Maybe an increase in Attacks? An increase in toughness seems a bit too good considering it's only a points increase for the character. I could definitely be wrong on that though!

 

Only time will tell, Pre-orders go up on Saturday and NDAs will be lifted so codex reviews will start flying up!

 

Let's just hope GW get the codices to the channels to review faster than the DA codex.

[Angel of Death]

I imagine it'll probably just be a WS increase? Maybe an increase in Attacks? An increase in toughness seems a bit too good considering it's only a points increase for the character. I could definitely be wrong on that though!

 

Only time will tell, Pre-orders go up on Saturday and NDAs will be lifted so codex reviews will start flying up!

Yes an increase in WS would make sense, but bear in mind that in order to increase the wounding of the wrack on an enemy, the wrack needs to have higher strength than his victim. Weapon skill in itself doesnt increase the chance to wound an enemy, only to hit it. Poisoned weapons, on the other hand, gets a reroll on the victim, if the strength of the wracks exceeds his victim's toughness. So, an increase in strength maybe is a bit more likely?

[TrawlingCleaner]

I'm not too sure I follow here, that is how strength works but normal Wracks only have access to poison combat weapons, the champion has access to two weapons that are strength: user. Wracks are one of the few units that strength increases would be largely wasted on?

[Snazzy]

Closest thing is Experimental Creations, which actually could be beneficial to S5 Wracks.

[TrawlingCleaner]

If you haven't seen it yet, this is the new Agents of Vect Stratagem:

 

Honestly, I think this change is a pretty great QOL change. Once per game, 0CP, force an opponent to over commit to something. It's not faction defining and likely won't make Black Heart an autotake like it used to be

[Snazzy]

Seems like a great way to penalize Command Reroll.  There's a few other ones i can think of that are cheap and can be used in multiple phases, like Veterans of the Long War.  None of them have the flexibility and ease of use of Command Reroll.  What i do find interesting is that this is a persistent effect.  There is still some value in a minimum sized Black Heart investment in order to use Agents, this time without needing to keep the unit alive until that one important strat is used.

[TrawlingCleaner]

It can't be used on Command reroll but there's plenty of other strategems that are used that this could put the breaks on, as you say VOTLW, Transhuman, Aerial Spotters, Cloud of Flies etc.

It's quite mind game-y to syke your opponent out with which strat you'll use it on, very cool!

[TrawlingCleaner]

A couple more Codex leaks in the forms of the Raider and Venoms (in Spanish). Both have an extra transport capacity (11 and 6), Raiders are now T6, both keep their Invulns (venom is still -1) and also seem to get PfP. Definitely a win for both! Dissie cannons haven't changed either

 

As we've seen the points for the codex already through the Points update earlier this year, 85 points for the Raider with a Dark Lance seems a better bet than Venoms? We've still to see plenty more of the book but I think it's time for me to start painting up some Raiders!

[WarriorFish]

This is unexpected but very welcome news! All the more so given how much DE rely on their transports. Great stuff here's hoping there's more good news to leak :D

[SpiritFox22]

English version of DE leaks.

 

Master Archon/Succubi cost +15pts.  Haemonculus costs +20pts.  You can upgrade 1 per detachment,  or with Realspace Raid all of them in said detachment.

 

Truborn/Bloodbrides/Haemoxytes all cost +2ppm over their base versions.  Bloodbrides increase the AP of their weapons on a 6 to wound by 3 instead of 1.  Haemoxytes increase the invulnerable save by +1 to a max of +4, and once per PHASE ignore the first failed save.

 

Prophets of Flesh looks nice with regaining a wound for any Charater, Grotesque, or Monster unit at the start of your command phase.  Along with anything Str8+ cannot wound on 1-3.

 

Cursed Blade give +1 Str and unmodded 6+ invuln saves in melee bounce back Mortal wounds.  Relic deals D3+3 MW's on a 2+ when you kill the Succubi.

 

Master Succubi have the Dancers Edge which is Str+2 AP-4 D2, and Unmodified 6's cannot use invulnerable saves.  Warlord trait is good for Hoard Clearing giving you the option of 3+ all enemy models within 2" attacks

 

Hellions get AP-1 base on their Hellglaives, +1 Toughness, +1 attacks, and Hit and run (Can charge after falling back).

 

Reavers mostly stay the same excluding the +1 attack.  Grav Talon is upgraded dealing 1 MW on a 4+ and D3 MW's on an unmodified 6.  Caltrops didn't change.

 

Mandrakes got the +1 Attacks, -1 to be hit, PFP, and Once per battle a free relocate anywhere more than 9" away from enemy models.

[Karhedron]

These are some tasty improvements to be sure!

[Snazzy]

Darn it, GW.  You made Hellions good.

[SpiritFox22]

Darn it, GW.  You made Hellions good.

Yeah now they're actually a viable unit.  Now the FA slot has a Dedicated shooter option (Scourges), the Middleman (Reavers), and Melee swarms (Hellions). 

 

Which I just noticed the leak has the same issue the MFM had with Reavers being 10ppm, guess we're getting a Day 1 FAQ to stop us from just dropping T1 charging everything into oblivion with Grav Talons.

 

Also Blasters on Reavers cost more than Heat Lances.  ...GW is seriously overvaluing the movement vs the Heat lance's reliability.

[Angel of Death]

I'm not too sure I follow here, that is how strength works but normal Wracks only have access to poison combat weapons, the champion has access to two weapons that are strength: user. Wracks are one of the few units that strength increases would be largely wasted on?

Poisoned weapons get rerolls to wound IF the wielder's strength exceeds the victim's tougness.

Which means that just +1 STR would give us rerolls against marines and other toughness 4 units.

[WarriorFish]

More good news, this is looking like the shake up DE needed. Or at least a shake up, but overall so far it is looking predominantly positive :)

[ThePenitentOne]

Here's hoping more models follow such a good-looking dex. I am optimistic... I think that the combination of Piety and Pain, the quality of the CP box, the substance of the dex and the campaign support might lure some new players. It seems like they are making these changes now to build support for something else later.

 

I mean even if it's just Grots, just CotA, just Beasts, or just Mandrakes... That'll be something. If we get anything, this is what it's likely to be- one of the four remaining clusters of DE still in finecast. If they did 2 or 3 of these, that would be above expectations, and all 4 would be a home run.

 

And then there's the Vect question....

[Bulwyf]

So how do I shoehorn Drazhar into a detachment now? It looks like he can't be used for the Realspace Raiders.

[SpiritFox22]

Well Wyches got hit with a minor nerf bat to counter their ability to swing 4 times at minimum.  Seems you cant replace their Hekatrarii Blades until you reach 10 models with the unit and then you're limited to 1 of each, which is a minor nerf.  On the other hand I can understand why they did so.  Now the No Escape rule gives -1 to your opponents roll to fall back for Each Shardnet so with the old option a 10 strong squad could've forced a -3 on the roll off, now it's capped at -2 for a maxed out Wyche squad.

 

Kabalites get a special weapon (Blasters/Shredder) for every 5 models and Heavy for every 10 models, which if you take one it's 99.9% chance that its going to be a Darklance for the Trueborn squad.  The Squad leader now doesn't have to trade his splinter rifle to snag a power sword/agonizer or Phantasm Grenade Launcher, which I think I'm gonna be taking quite often especially for the Trueborn.

 

*Edit*

 

Though I definitely like the upgraded Medusa, even if they're swingy as hell.  Pistol D6 Str4 AP-2 D1 12" and Auto-hitting is hilarious even if it's not as likely to shoot 24 shots vs their old gaurenteed 16 shots at 9".  But for less serious games I'm definitely throwing a unit of 4 in a Venom and going to town.

 

 

So how do I shoehorn Drazhar into a detachment now? It looks like he can't be used for the Realspace Raiders.

Realspace Raiders from what I've theory crafted from the points seems to be nigh impossible to build on at the Brigade level at 2k points and get enough of each Kabal/Cult/Coven for it to be worth the effort.  So IMO just keep him running in the triple Patrol cause that's what I'm doing in a Wyche/incubi bomb since they're just flat out scary now.

Edited March 21, 2021 by SpiritFox22