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  On 7/14/2022 at 12:31 PM, Hfran Morkai said:

Infiltrate and Area Denial Drop are different deployment types aren't they?

 

Anything that doesn't come in a Drop Pod, Dreadnought Drop Pod, Dreadclaw or Kharbydis comes on as reserves and may not partake in any alternative deployments (such as Deep Strike Assaults or Flanking Assaults).

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Infiltrate in itself isn't really an "alternative deployment", but you wouldn't be able to use the benefits infered by Outflank (Flanking Assault)

With the Deathstorm thing, I see your point... It doesn't seem to be allowed. Doesnlt seem like an FAQ point, more something that isn't possible. 

  On 7/14/2022 at 4:09 PM, SkimaskMohawk said:

A lot of people think FAQ means wishlist for looser restrictions because they don't like being limited. The infiltrators during drop pod assault and template during chain fire are pretty clear examples of that.

 

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I don't mind being limited too much (it is what it is and I'm sure some of it is balance) but it is the fluff that Recon Squads operate ahead of the main force and guide in Orbital Drops.

 

I can literally do it by having an Allied Detachment of Sworn Brothers but that means they're different Legions, something I'm not overly keen on for the sake of this as it's not as fluffy.

 

And regarding the template, oh dear silly me for wanting a single S3 template weapon in Chain Fire, which I've already mentioned I'm going to build him with one anyway, even if he can only use that separately (handy for reactions maybe).

Sometimes its consistency too, like the Tank army losing line but the dreadnought one keeping it? 

Though there is a significant chance that if im in an event or something ill be writing the pack for it and can just fix it then. Muahahahaha :P 

The Passage of the Angel of Death has to be the best WD article I've read in forever. It's got great tidbits about what's going on away from Terra and honestly some of the bits made me laugh out loud. If you like carnage and destruction  and vengeance this part of the timeline has it in spades.

 

Like, there would be so many more worlds if the HH hadn't happened.

  On 7/16/2022 at 6:02 AM, JeffJedi said:

The Passage of the Angel of Death has to be the best WD article I've read in forever. It's got great tidbits about what's going on away from Terra and honestly some of the bits made me laugh out loud. If you like carnage and destruction  and vengeance this part of the timeline has it in spades.

 

Like, there would be so many more worlds if the HH hadn't happened.

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Which WD is it? This month?

Spoilered it again, also copied over the photos from my previous post for the more interesting bits. Tried to keep it brief but cover the points without just copying over what is in the White Dwarf and added a few interesting quotes from each Tidbit.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

After that the players talk about their armies (3 loyalist, 3 traitors [RG, DA, SW vs DG, IW and SoH]) and how they will keep them thematic. RG player going to be mainly using elite units, DA player going to have a good mix while the SW player is going to have a number of infantry with newer gear to represent their looting. DG are mainly going to be fresh infantry with nothing too exotic, IW going to be infantry with Automata while the SoH are going to be a small elite force without the actual Legion units.

Next month they'll be showcasing their armies and the following month will be the battle.

  On 7/17/2022 at 1:33 AM, JeffJedi said:

Amazing detail to find out, both Liber books have different artwork of the units in black and white on the pages. I figured the color parts and Legions would be unique, but they went the extra mile here with pictures.

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Interesting.

I haven't seen the traitor book, I've only kept my nose in the loyalist book :wink:

Plastic Leviathan going up for Pre-order next week. With the close combat sprue available separately

Firepower-focused Praetors planning to pick up a Leviathan packing powerful ranged weapons when it arrives need not fear a lack of options, as the Close Combat Weapons Frame will also be available to order direct from the Games Workshop webstore. This frame includes the two melee fists from the full Dreadnought kit, which can each be built as siege drills or siege claws for all of your Loyalist/Traitor grinding/crushing needs, and is a great way to add weapon options to any future Leviathan Siege Dreadnoughts you might add to your army.

 

 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/17/sunday-preview-mortal-minions-bask-in-the-power-of-the-dark-gods/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sunday-preview&utm_content=sundaypreview

As much as I enjoyed David Guymer's version of the Passage of the Angel of Death in Dreadwing, I must admit that I prefer the White Dwarf version, as it makes it seem to be much more of a climactic event that Guymer's relatively small affair, and also serves to link the Lion back to Russ as it was in the original stories.

  On 7/18/2022 at 12:13 AM, jaxom said:

Huh, I have to say I'm a little disappointed by how how much the Dark Angel lore circa the Siege continues to drift from what was previously said.

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In what way has it drifted? Discounting Astelan's lies from Angels of Darkness all we knew was the Lion and Russ were heading to Terra but arrived too late. Currently we have the Lion and Russ travelling together and no indication they will reach Terra in time for the big showdown.

  On 7/18/2022 at 10:17 AM, Cactus said:

In what way has it drifted? Discounting Astelan's lies from Angels of Darkness all we knew was the Lion and Russ were heading to Terra but arrived too late. Currently we have the Lion and Russ travelling together and no indication they will reach Terra in time for the big showdown.

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Originally, it was Russ that pushed for relieving Imperial forces and destroying traitor holdfasts while on the way to Terra. The Lion wanted to push directly to relieve the siege. The Lion then blamed Russ for them arriving too late and it results in their less famous second "duel" that fixes their relationship.

I understand why they've made the change. It fits with the way they've developed the Dark Angels since Angels of Caliban and it sets up the Dark Angels to have a lot less legionaries left than one would expect just based on Thramas (the only major engagement we've previously known about). It seems like this will put them on par with most of the other legions once the Siege is done, leaving the Ultramarines uncontested as the largest legion.

If there is a change, though, that the Ultramarines relieve the Siege... then I may flip a table.

Edited by jaxom
Spelling and grammar
  On 7/18/2022 at 2:11 PM, jaxom said:

If there is a change, though, that the Ultramarines relieve the Siege... then I may flip a table.

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Well, I mean that's already written in stone - the siege books have the traitors acting hastily as they know guilliman is on the way, and the loyalists raging that the Lion has gone after easy [tactically irrelevant] targets keeping away from the main fight. Arguably, in my opinion, preserving the I Legion strength so they can take over once the dust settles. 

  On 7/18/2022 at 3:57 PM, Xenith said:

Well, I mean that's already written in stone - the siege books have the traitors acting hastily as they know guilliman is on the way, and the loyalists raging that the Lion has gone after easy [tactically irrelevant] targets keeping away from the main fight. Arguably, in my opinion, preserving the I Legion strength so they can take over once the dust settles. 

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Oh yeah, that's a large part of my trepidation. However, there's what the besieged think is going to happen and what may actually happen. As for the preservation of strength, the new lore surrounding the siege of Barbarus has the Dark Angels taking pretty big hits as they make their way through the traitor homeworlds and fortresses.

  On 7/17/2022 at 1:59 AM, bushman101 said:

Interesting.

I haven't seen the traitor book, I've only kept my nose in the loyalist book :wink:

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I've been the opposite :laugh:

I really appreciate the weight and style of them: I'm excited to explore more things like that in them.

Edited by Chaeron
Adjusting the smiley!
  On 7/18/2022 at 6:09 PM, jaxom said:

Oh yeah, that's a large part of my trepidation. However, there's what the besieged think is going to happen and what may actually happen. As for the preservation of strength, the new lore surrounding the siege of Barbarus has the Dark Angels taking pretty big hits as they make their way through the traitor homeworlds and fortresses.

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Disagree. In Russ's primarch book, Lion stumbles across Russ in the ruined palace post siege looking at a mural, and is angry Russ didn't do more to stop the Emperor from falling. He stabs Russ in a mixture of anger, sadness and guilt for not being at the siege himself. I think at that point Lion knows he made the wrong choice for not continuing on to Terra like his brothers and is most angry at Russ because he believes he is the strongest one there that could have made a difference but didn't. Unlike Russ being mad about the sucker punch that knocked him out, Russ isn't mad at all for being run through by the Lion because he also feels guilty and feels like he needed to be punished for his own perceived failure. Also consider, Malcador was dead at this point also and was quite close to Russ, so Russ would have been at a very low point at this time. What strength the DA retained was bled out at the Battle of Caliban. 

The Russ novella was based on "The Lion and The Wolf" blurb that has popped up in most Dark Angel codexes. However, that was another, longer version of it in White Dwarf 233. It lives rent-free in my brain because that's the issue that made me a Dark Angel fan boy for so long. It expanded a lot on the classic siege lore that the Lion and Russ where the relief force that Horus detected. It's (as far as I know) the original source for the Lion stabbing Russ after the siege. 

EDIT: hidden tags didn't work so I put the story in a spoiler

  Reveal hidden contents

There were some small changes (like that Russ wasn't there to see Dorn with the Emperor) in the novella. Yet, he still dreams of the Emperor and wakes up to the Lion ready to duel. The wording in the novella is ambigous. I understand how it could be read as the Lion guilty for staying away from the Siege too long, but it can also be read, in the context of the original lore, as the Lion blaming Russ for staying away and himself for not pushing Russ harder to return to Terra.

  Quote

"You never learned!" he cried. "You should have been faster! It was your pride that kept you in the void!"

Still Russ made no move, though the Lion's eyes were wild and dangerous.

"And I am guilty, just as you are," the Lion urged again, his grip on the sword tight. "So fight me, and we will pass sentence on each other, the guilty slaying the guilty. I will not ask you again."

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The only reference to making it to Terra was,

  Quote

[Russ] was exhausted, burned out by Yarant and then the furious, desperate race to reach the hearthworld in time, then the horror of his discovery [of the Emperor on the Golden Throne].

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All of this still fits, relatively speaking with the original lore. However, it could also be used to support the newer viewpoint that the Dark Angels are terrible and just had really good PR. It's the same novella where Russ talks about the Lion's knightly virtues while every modern direct writing on the Lion describes him as a brutal machine of war with no thought to anything else.

Edited by jaxom
Fixed tags

I also like to think Russ feels guilty for Magnus and the Thousand Sons.

 

Yes, he did what he felt he had to at the time and he despised what Magnus was doing but he was ultimately played by Chaos and led into laying waste to Prospero.

 

Especially as the Sons would have been an awesome Loyalist asset, which is why they conspired to ensure the conflict.

 

What a tragedy.

 

 

  On 7/18/2022 at 7:46 PM, Chaeron said:

I've been the opposite :laugh:

I really appreciate the weight and style of them: I'm excited to explore more things like that in them.

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The joys of multiple legions?  Playing BA has been enough for me. So far, I'm not a big fan of their legion specific Rows, so I'm still finding a 'home' to play in.

  On 7/19/2022 at 5:15 AM, Hfran Morkai said:

What a tragedy.

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I feel like that is the biggest draw for 1k sons. The mind can reel at what could have been.

Ah yeah, Russ, managed to :cuss: everything up...:cuss: up his legion, :cuss: up TS and turn them to the dark side, then managed to :cuss: what was left of his legion by going at horus alone, then managed to :cuss: even that up when he could have ended him...so yeah kids, don't be like a Russ, think just a bit.

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