State of the Union (Heresy)

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Yeah that’s kind of my point, re: fire raptors and storm eagles. They are still in the book, but they are the most miserable kits to assemble I have ever done in 28ish years of gaming. I would not be surprised to see them in full plastic rather than hybrid. They are also some of the most iconic Heresy silhouettes. Same with all the stuff that just went LCTB.

Even from a warehousing and packing standpoint that must be a pain in the ass, making sure you have half of a bunch of random kits on hand to pack up with resin parts from somewhere else…better to just make the turret in resin separately, and make the standard kit and maybe a couple variants in plastic.

[Spagunk]

 

Anyone see raldarons rules yet? Is he still pretty much the same as current edition?

http://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1648813980121.png

 

No more Blood Angel stuff will get leaked sadly, because the leaker seems to have gotten into a typical 4chan pissing match with someone from Bolter & Chainsword of all people.

The fight in question arose over not posting the full rules, but I think it is said elswhere that the WL is now more flexible and the blade Encarmine has a (+5) efect like Breaching or Rending.

 

Tl;dr: Raldoran gud

 

I'll check if there are more leaks elsewhere. It's a pain that the only that hasn't dried up (yet) is 4chan, though it was to be expected. I guess all good things come at a price.

 

 

Encarmine blade just has Master crafted, shred and murderous strike (5+). It's not like breaching or rending because it specifically gives Instant Death where as breaching and rending are more like the older rules with a few tweeks.

 

Murderous strike is an upgrade in that you need a 5+ to trigger vs. the 6 from HH1.0 rule. The sword is also AP2. 

 

And yes, his WL trait is that he can take core warlord traits from any loyalist legion except Dark Angels aside from those that are unique to named characters or traitor warlord traits. Thus my comment "It's more robust" .

 

I didn't catch that furious charge is now a (2) vs HH 1.0 so ya'll got me on not paying attention.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Spagunk

[Spagunk]

One thing I want to say, specifically to the fellow blood angel players:

It's fine. I am a very negative person in general and the doom/gloom going around about the BA is too much even for me. We'll be fine. We won't sparkle via rules anymore but rather through our great units instead. All our unique units are very good this edition. Yes, sure we lost a lot of luster but it's going to be fine. Nothing that hit us makes us the worst legion, we just aren't the best at the one thing anymore. 

 

The only thing I would say is that it IS frustrating that our melee abilities have been cut down but honestly if you have been paying attention to GW that's what they want to get away from: BA being melee monsters.

[dicebod]

One thing I want to say, specifically to the fellow blood angel players:

 

It's fine. I am a very negative person in general and the doom/gloom going around about the BA is too much even for me. We'll be fine. We won't sparkle via rules anymore but rather through our great units instead. All our unique units are very good this edition. Yes, sure we lost a lot of luster but it's going to be fine. Nothing that hit us makes us the worst legion, we just aren't the best at the one thing anymore. 

 

The only thing I would say is that it IS frustrating that our melee abilities have been cut down but honestly if you have been paying attention to GW that's what they want to get away from: BA being melee monsters.

You know what? Thank you for your very level-headed comment. The amount of salt in this thread and rending of garments over "X not being as good as it was in 1.0" just drives me up the wall. We don't even have a full picture of the rules yet and folks are saying they'll not play the new edition because they were personally victimized by only seeing part of playtest rules. Like...for real?

 

There will be things you like. There will be things you don't like. That is the nature of change.

[Astartes Consul]

The choice to remove Boxnaughts is... really weird

 

On another note, have we seen the new Iron Hands rites of war? I've seen basically all of their rules except for the RoWs and their unique reaction.

 

Is it? GW will want to really push the new plastic Contemptor and the FW Boxnaught kit itself has been OOP since what, 2018?

[No Foes Remain]

 

The choice to remove Boxnaughts is... really weird

 

On another note, have we seen the new Iron Hands rites of war? I've seen basically all of their rules except for the RoWs and their unique reaction.

 

Is it? GW will want to really push the new plastic Contemptor and the FW Boxnaught kit itself has been OOP since what, 2018?

 

GW themselves still sell the Boxnaught, the standard, Ironclad, Venerable, Blood Angel and Space Wolf.

[D3L]

GW themselves still sell the Boxnaught, the standard, Ironclad, Venerable, Blood Angel and Space Wolf.

 

I wouldn't expect it to be in 10e next year

[The Scorpion]

The decision to remove the Boxnought makes sense and doesn't.

 

It makes sense because by removing the Boxnought, you shove the Contemptor down people's throat.

 

Yet it doesn't because with the amount of ressources allocated to the production of the new Contemptor, they could've made the MKIV Boxnought. All while still selling the FW resin kits and the overpriced plastic one from Betrayal at Calth.

 

But then you remember GeeDubs is short-sighted, and everything makes sense again.

[Spagunk]

No Boxnought is what makes me think that it just wasn't in the scope of the phase 3 playtest. There are plenty of "firstborn" dreads in plastic and nothing has ever stated they WEREN'T heresy era. On the contrary: Bjorn the fellhand is specifically a boxnought and was supposed around during the heresy.

We shall see, i guess.

<sad beep boop noises>

Edited April 1, 2022 by Spagunk

[Spagunk]

 

One thing I want to say, specifically to the fellow blood angel players:

 

It's fine. I am a very negative person in general and the doom/gloom going around about the BA is too much even for me. We'll be fine. We won't sparkle via rules anymore but rather through our great units instead. All our unique units are very good this edition. Yes, sure we lost a lot of luster but it's going to be fine. Nothing that hit us makes us the worst legion, we just aren't the best at the one thing anymore. 

 

The only thing I would say is that it IS frustrating that our melee abilities have been cut down but honestly if you have been paying attention to GW that's what they want to get away from: BA being melee monsters.

You know what? Thank you for your very level-headed comment. The amount of salt in this thread and rending of garments over "X not being as good as it was in 1.0" just drives me up the wall. We don't even have a full picture of the rules yet and folks are saying they'll not play the new edition because they were personally victimized by only seeing part of playtest rules. Like...for real?

 

There will be things you like. There will be things you don't like. That is the nature of change.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still have grievances with some of the stuff they did to BA. I just think it's not as bad as it seems. Also, a lot of other legions have changed so hopefully things aren't nearly as one sided anymore: IF is looking particularly promising, as are raven guard.

 

I still can't figure out what is going on with Dark Angels tbh. I am told they're a mess and don't really work except for a couple of their unique forces but it's a wall of confusing bullet points to me. 

[Noserenda]

Boxnoughts are totally era appropriate, honestly it just reeks of some mix of personal bias, elitism and that stupid inter branch rivalry FW has that means they avoid using sensible GW plastics, see also Sanguinary guard for example.

[Slips]

I have a theory about why the box dread (among other kits) is going but its basically conspiracy-theory levels with some very specific information I don't feel comfortable sharing at this time :(

[Dark Legionnare]

No Boxnought is what makes me think that it just wasn't in the scope of the phase 3 playtest. There are plenty of "firstborn" dreads in plastic and nothing has ever stated they WEREN'T heresy era. On the contrary: Bjorn the fellhand is specifically a boxnought and was supposed around during the heresy.

We shall see, i guess.

<sad beep boop noises>

I missed the boat on the legion boxers. Hopefully they stick around in the new rules, as well, they release a kit for them again!

[BitsHammer]

Point about Bjorn: he wasn't a Dreadnought until long after the Heresy when Magnus tried to break Fenris the first time.

 

As for the removed rules, I won't hold my breath one way or the other. GW has surprised us in all sorts of manners in the past so I am keeping expectations low and will wait for the official release to judge instead.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Fulkes

[Armillion]

***Random thought-train just popped in my head as further speculation:***

 

1. We have seen the leak of the 'Las Weapons' section of the rules, listing the Turbo-Laser Destructor and the Neutron-wave cannon in particular.
2. Assuming the Neutron-wave capacitor upgrade on the Falchion is going become the Neutron-wave cannon as a weapon upgrade option, where does that leave the Turbo-laser?
3. The terrain pieces in AoD, particularly the Primus Redoubt which is the only thing in the current Legion list which has this weapon, has been OoP for years.  And we know how much GW hates letting you use their products that you paid for but they no longer make (and some that they still make).
4. Terrain piece apparently missing in 2.0 as stated by others.
5. Where the heck does the Legion list use a Turbo-laser destructor?

I think there is only one option, unless something new is coming down the pipeline that we haven't heard about:

 

====>Turbo-laser is a weapon swap option for the Cerberus's Neutron Laser Battery.  Its the only extant remaining vehicle that could presumably pretend its main gun is either weapon option.  Think about it, if a plasma blastgun can fit on a baneblade, then its not implausible that a turbo-laser could fit in a Cerberus.  Especially since GW's rules writing and model design tends to produce vehicles and units with escalating sizes in power and it would slot nicely below the Falchion as the 'budget option'.

[Slips]

***Random thought-train just popped in my head as further speculation:***

 

1. We have seen the leak of the 'Las Weapons' section of the rules, listing the Turbo-Laser Destructor and the Neutron-wave cannon in particular.
2. Assuming the Neutron-wave capacitor upgrade on the Falchion is going become the Neutron-wave cannon as a weapon upgrade option, where does that leave the Turbo-laser?
3. The terrain pieces in AoD, particularly the Primus Redoubt which is the only thing in the current Legion list which has this weapon, has been OoP for years.  And we know how much GW hates letting you use their products that you paid for but they no longer make (and some that they still make).
4. Terrain piece apparently missing in 2.0 as stated by others.
5. Where the heck does the Legion list use a Turbo-laser destructor?

I think there is only one option, unless something new is coming down the pipeline that we haven't heard about:

 

====>Turbo-laser is a weapon swap option for the Cerberus's Neutron Laser Battery.  Its the only extant remaining vehicle that could presumably pretend its main gun is either weapon option.  Think about it, if a plasma blastgun can fit on a baneblade, then its not implausible that a turbo-laser could fit in a Cerberus.  Especially since GW's rules writing and model design tends to produce vehicles and units with escalating sizes in power and it would slot nicely below the Falchion as the 'budget option'.

...the Thunderhawk has a turbolaser.

[Noserenda]

Is there any mention of fortifications in the new rules? Like not just existing but which ones? 

[Armillion]

 

***Random thought-train just popped in my head as further speculation:***

 

1. We have seen the leak of the 'Las Weapons' section of the rules, listing the Turbo-Laser Destructor and the Neutron-wave cannon in particular.
2. Assuming the Neutron-wave capacitor upgrade on the Falchion is going become the Neutron-wave cannon as a weapon upgrade option, where does that leave the Turbo-laser?
3. The terrain pieces in AoD, particularly the Primus Redoubt which is the only thing in the current Legion list which has this weapon, has been OoP for years.  And we know how much GW hates letting you use their products that you paid for but they no longer make (and some that they still make).
4. Terrain piece apparently missing in 2.0 as stated by others.
5. Where the heck does the Legion list use a Turbo-laser destructor?

I think there is only one option, unless something new is coming down the pipeline that we haven't heard about:

 

====>Turbo-laser is a weapon swap option for the Cerberus's Neutron Laser Battery.  Its the only extant remaining vehicle that could presumably pretend its main gun is either weapon option.  Think about it, if a plasma blastgun can fit on a baneblade, then its not implausible that a turbo-laser could fit in a Cerberus.  Especially since GW's rules writing and model design tends to produce vehicles and units with escalating sizes in power and it would slot nicely below the Falchion as the 'budget option'.

...the Thunderhawk has a turbolaser.

 

Forgot about that one, I'm dumb 

[Spagunk]

Is there any mention of fortifications in the new rules? Like not just existing but which ones? 

The leaks show rules for Walls, bunkers and defense lines; nothing about any of the larger kits if that is what you're asking.

 

I didn't see if the legion rules expands that at all but I guess now is a good time to check.

 

Edit: not seeing anything fortifications wise in the legion stuff. Again, this could just not be in the scope of this playtesting or whatever but who knows.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Spagunk

[Bung]

I have a theory about why the box dread (among other kits) is going but its basically conspiracy-theory levels with some very specific information I don't feel comfortable sharing at this time :(

A new Box Dread after the old one is an least 20 years old?

It came out with the second White dwarf i bought.

[Spagunk]

The mk4's were such good sculpts. Such a shame they never really kept those nor expanded them for such a long time.

[Astartes Consul]

 

 

 

 

The choice to remove Boxnaughts is... really weird

 

On another note, have we seen the new Iron Hands rites of war? I've seen basically all of their rules except for the RoWs and their unique reaction.

Is it? GW will want to really push the new plastic Contemptor and the FW Boxnaught kit itself has been OOP since what, 2018?

GW themselves still sell the Boxnaught, the standard, Ironclad, Venerable, Blood Angel and Space Wolf.

Yes, absolutely true. But I doubt that GW are going to give an existing plastic 40k kit rules that will see it compete for a slot with the (alleged) new, shinny plastic Contemptor.

 

Also, I always think of Boxnaughts as being the Mk. IV Dreads that FW made. Which I the kit I referred to in my original post.

[No Foes Remain]

 

 

 

The choice to remove Boxnaughts is... really weird

 

On another note, have we seen the new Iron Hands rites of war? I've seen basically all of their rules except for the RoWs and their unique reaction.

Is it? GW will want to really push the new plastic Contemptor and the FW Boxnaught kit itself has been OOP since what, 2018?

GW themselves still sell the Boxnaught, the standard, Ironclad, Venerable, Blood Angel and Space Wolf.

Yes, absolutely true. But I doubt that GW are going to give an existing plastic 40k kit rules that will see it compete for a slot with the (alleged) new, shinny plastic Contemptor.

 

Also, I always think of Boxnaughts as being the Mk. IV Dreads that FW made. Which I the kit I referred to in my original post.

 

Fair point, however the Venerable and (with the right options) Blood Angels dread can be built as a MkIV (just being on with the head sensor rather than the coffin plate). So it would be strange for GW to not offer other kits that pretty much cost them nothing and just make profit from them. But this is GW so sometimes their methods are strange.

[StrangerOrders]

While I seem to luckily not be suffering any losses aside from my Cabal, I am very worried about my models becoming illegal as a result of them cutting options left and right.

 

Any word on Apothecaries losing Jump Packs? I am already looking at the prospect of sawing them off of my Palatines and Im curious if my Apothecaries are also getting maimed lol.

[The Scorpion]

http://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1648839388007.png

 

R.I.P Heresy Boxnought. You weren't relic-tech enough for this cruel Age of Darkness.

On the other hand, this all but confirms a Corswain model... or means that the RG & SL characters aren't getting axed after all.

Edited April 1, 2022 by The Scorpion