State of the Union (Heresy)

[sarabando]

 

just found out that Ultras lost their missile terminators there goes that idea, they also lost the storm squad which kills off one of my already finished units i really hate this no mini no rules BS its so anti what GW used to be like.

This unit will likely be in the expanded PDF.

 

im sure they will but it just seems silly to strip out all those units. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

Well it's probably a non-trivial amount of pages in the book, and I guess they're skirting the edge of corporate policy there where the printed publications should have model support. If it means they stick around, that's good enough for me.

 

Personally, I'm just going to print them out and bundle them in a binder or something and call it a day.

[Hfran Morkai]

I'll say it now as unsure when the forum will officially go down for it's upgrade.

 

Here's hoping it's closer to the two-week end of the time frame as would love to share the new release with you all.

 

Even if you're not going to move to 2.0 I'm sure plastics coming out will be appreciated at least and what seems like a massive investment in the system.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Hfran Morkai

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I do suspect keeping the Liber books to only units with models was partly done to keep the page count down on some already beefy books - plus you have the potential to reduce the load on playtestering because in the time when the books were being sent to print, printed and shipped, the omitted units could be playtested separately because you don't have the same lead times on a free PDF that doesn't need printing.

[wildweasel]

My read on Core/Expanded, from the boxed text in the Phase 3 docs, is that Core is essentially “Store manager can point someone at one or two HH-banded kits to buy to make the unit” while Expanded is “Go grab that 40K branded kit or get to hunting bits and converting.”

 

It’s not quite 100% - but the exceptions do have good reasons. Such as drop pods which are such a fundamental aspect of Legiones operation and play so they are Core even with a 40K branded box; or all the possible Consul X in Armor Y cause saying “ok you need to convert one cool boss character to have a Prime Medicae in Tartaros armor” is a reasonable ask whereas “Source 5 Cyclone missile launchers to stack on Terminators to make Fulementarus” is a bit much to expect from a new(er) player browsing their fancy army book.

[dicebod]

My read on Core/Expanded, from the boxed text in the Phase 3 docs, is that Core is essentially “Store manager can point someone at one or two HH-banded kits to buy to make the unit” while Expanded is “Go grab that 40K branded kit or get to hunting bits and converting.”

 

It’s not quite 100% - but the exceptions do have good reasons. Such as drop pods which are such a fundamental aspect of Legiones operation and play so they are Core even with a 40K branded box; or all the possible Consul X in Armor Y cause saying “ok you need to convert one cool boss character to have a Prime Medicae in Tartaros armor” is a reasonable ask whereas “Source 5 Cyclone missile launchers to stack on Terminators to make Fulementarus” is a bit much to expect from a new(er) player browsing their fancy army book.

 

Yeah I think this is definitely the case. Is it a SKU you can buy right off the shelf or from FW? It's in the standard set of units. Is is something without a model that would require converting? That lives in PDF form. To be honest this is an incredibly preferable solution to those minis being legend-ed (or worse, disappearing from the rules entirely).

 

[JeffJedi]

Will the Liber books be the "codex" of the game or will they be the "index" for future army book to build on later? And thus replace.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Will the Liber books be the "codex" of the game or will they be the "index" for future army book to build on later? And thus replace.

More like the Codex. In the past, we had the red books, which compiled the rules from the black books (campaign books). These are basically reissues of that, so these are your full rules, updated from 1E to 2E. There may be campaign books that add further rules, but those will be additions.

 

They'll almost certainly get reissued at some point years down the line, but that's to be expected.

[Brother Kraskor]

I am suddenly filled with a desire to get a squadron of two Kratos with all the volkite. 

[infyrana]

I am suddenly filled with a desire to get a squadron of two Kratos with all the volkite. 

Please wait patiently in the queue, your remaining queue time is extensive, you may wish to read a book whilst you wait :)

 

But yep, all the Volkite (With Melta optional).

[Brofist]

No models = no rules is more likely one of the many results of Chapterhouse vs GW

[Astartes Consul]

No models = no rules is more likely one of the many results of Chapterhouse vs GW

 

That certainly set the precedent but, a long way back now on this thread someone, I think @Slips raised the point that part of the 'Core' v 'Expanded' breakdown is allegedly also in place so that there is a baseline of Age of Darkness kits that they can measure sales and interest against. Guess that is especially true of the FW resin stuff. 

[Slips]

Yeah, as far as I was made aware, anything branded "Horus Heresy" is to gauge how much money it makes by basically putting what it makes in sales into its own 'pool' - so to speak - so that they can see how well its performing and if they should keep investing more or not.

 

Anything *not* branded Horus Heresy, therefore, wouldn't count for that metric which is why no 40k plastic kit is in the core rules. For example, they could have easily just kept the Land Raider Phobos 40k kit for our assault ramp Land Raiders but, instead, we're getting a Proteus with assault ramp.

 

So while they are striving to make everything we've had previously legal and work via the Core vs Expanded System, the focus will definitely be on having bespoke "Horus Heresy" kits - be they resin or plastic.

 

Therefore, its quite literally a case of: the more we buy, the more they'll make.

 

Thats my overall understanding at least as a like, 6th party with regards to this info.

[Excessus]

I just don't really get why they didn't just release a resin jump pack upgrade kit instead of removing the option from units. It would have been a win-win situation.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Makes sense. Might be we see a new drop pod/dreadclaw kit, which is currently the only outlier I can see.

 

Obviously they can measure the delta for now in such that circumstance for an estimate.

[Noserenda]

Its such a flawed concept though, the ranges are already deeply entwined to the extent any of that data is going to be off base, especially during this first mega surge in popularity around the new edition, when a lot of people are still going to be leery of resin (I mean, even in our group where literally every member has at least one 2-3000pt fully resin Heresy army under their belts from the pre plastic HH era the Resin prices are... yikes inducing these days) and going to want things NOW, which is why i got 3 mars predators for my birthday and im eyeballing wrecked second hand land raiders to rebuild as Mk2bs on the cheap for example. Maybe they get a plastic version out in time, maybe they dont but i imagine thats true for the swathe of "40k" kits that work fine for both.

I suspect it does explain the larger than anticipated number of kits coming out alongside the starter, after a starter, giant army book, a Kratos, a couple of Rhinos and a bevvy of dice/glue/transfers you are probably running up against most hobbyists upper planned purchase limit and they'll delay that wing of land speeders they were eyeing up :D 

[ChargingSoll]

The mantle of ultramar now also gives battle hardened. A traitor ultra marine praetor can reach an insane amount of durability. Invictarus suzerains squads now have the unique boarding shield which gives 5+ invul to shooting and a 4+ invul in melee and only prohibits the use of two handed weapons but not the bonus for having 2. So on the charge they have 5 attacks each with WS 5.

 

With the breacher power sword rule now becoming its own unit. A romanesq army full of shields seems more fun.

[Lord Krungharr]

New Kratos tank looks pretty cool and mean....I guess perhaps maybe worth the price.  Plenty of flat room for good hazard stripes.  I'm curious to see how Tanks fare vs the new Dreadnoughts with more infantry-like stats.  From a lore-perspective this makes sense for Dreadnoughts.  Just not positive they'll be more or less or equally durable as they were in 'vehicle' form.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Its such a flawed concept though, the ranges are already deeply entwined to the extent any of that data is going to be off base, especially during this first mega surge in popularity around the new edition, when a lot of people are still going to be leery of resin (I mean, even in our group where literally every member has at least one 2-3000pt fully resin Heresy army under their belts from the pre plastic HH era the Resin prices are... yikes inducing these days) and going to want things NOW, which is why i got 3 mars predators for my birthday and im eyeballing wrecked second hand land raiders to rebuild as Mk2bs on the cheap for example. Maybe they get a plastic version out in time, maybe they dont but i imagine thats true for the swathe of "40k" kits that work fine for both.

 

I suspect it does explain the larger than anticipated number of kits coming out alongside the starter, after a starter, giant army book, a Kratos, a couple of Rhinos and a bevvy of dice/glue/transfers you are probably running up against most hobbyists upper planned purchase limit and they'll delay that wing of land speeders they were eyeing up

It's not a terribly flawed concept. As a company, they need to at least have some rough metric of where their money is coming from.

 

Of course there will be a spike at the beginning, but sales should stabilize and they can make certain conclusions based on that. Even the spike at the beginning, they can get some metric on what a new release may sell at.

[Brofist]

The mantle of ultramar now also gives battle hardened. A traitor ultra marine praetor can reach an insane amount of durability. Invictarus suzerains squads now have the unique boarding shield which gives 5+ invul to shooting and a 4+ invul in melee and only prohibits the use of two handed weapons but not the bonus for having 2. So on the charge they have 5 attacks each with WS 5.

 

With the breacher power sword rule now becoming its own unit. A romanesq army full of shields seems more fun.

Didn't you read just a few pages ago, suzies are actually bad

 

(ribbing here, of course)

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

The mantle of ultramar now also gives battle hardened. A traitor ultra marine praetor can reach an insane amount of durability. Invictarus suzerains squads now have the unique boarding shield which gives 5+ invul to shooting and a 4+ invul in melee and only prohibits the use of two handed weapons but not the bonus for having 2. So on the charge they have 5 attacks each with WS 5.

 

With the breacher power sword rule now becoming its own unit. A romanesq army full of shields seems more fun.

Didn't you read just a few pages ago, suzies are actually bad

 

(ribbing here, of course)

Lol, I said axe Suzies don't "blow every other legions special units out of the water" like people tried to claim, but they were still a good/solid unit.

[Marshal Mittens]

I am suddenly filled with a desire to get a squadron of two Kratos with all the volkite.

You are not the only one!

[MichaelCarmine]

New Kratos tank looks pretty cool and mean....I guess perhaps maybe worth the price.  Plenty of flat room for good hazard stripes.  I'm curious to see how Tanks fare vs the new Dreadnoughts with more infantry-like stats.  From a lore-perspective this makes sense for Dreadnoughts.  Just not positive they'll be more or less or equally durable as they were in 'vehicle' form.

Let me ask you this - how durable do you think, Mechanicum Automata like the Domitar/Castellax or the Thanatar are/was in that regard? Pretty damn durable and that with less wounds! =]

 

Edit: Meltabombs are much better at dealing with "monstrous creatures" now, which makes them more or less the same against Dreadnoughts, as they are now. Just that they are much more rare now, since assault squads cannot wield them anymore.

Plasmaweapons however - much better at dealing with Dreads/ high toughness "monstrous creatures", thanks to rending (4+).

Edited June 1, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Cyrox]

Raven Guard painting vid is up

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Let's take the stealthy legion and give them obvious, super high-contrast, double edge highlighted armour.

 

The impression this video series has given me is that most GW presenters are only comfortable painting in the GW style, regardless of how it works from a thematic or composition standpoint. Like if she really needs to double edge highlight to feel a model is complete (and I remember that thousand son backpack; she definitely does) then go corax black into Slavenblight dinge or something like that; define some edges without ruining the dark model. Also you can't wash/shade black do get definition lol.

 

I'm going to have to go and watch the salamanders one now to complete my misery.

 

EDIT: well I knew I was in for it when the same chick was painting the salamanders. Started off with the streakiest base coat I've seen yet, into the classic double edge highlight thats way too bright for the base colour. So is the metal for that matter. Do they not think "hmm maybe my accent colours should compliment my main colours instead of overpowering them dramatically"?

Edited June 1, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk