State of the Union (Heresy)

[Corswain]

So Fists and Sons of Horus - if this is a boxset and not just a core range release, where/when is it set? Mars? Solar War? Siege of Terra itself?

I guess GW have the luxury of an evolving narrative and they can just make up a new conflict but those are the only three I can think of currently.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

So Fists and Sons of Horus - if this is a boxset and not just a core range release, where/when is it set? Mars? Solar War? Siege of Terra itself?

I guess GW have the luxury of an evolving narrative and they can just make up a new conflict but those are the only three I can think of currently.

 

Mars makes the most sense to me, given this doesn't appear to have any late-heresy aesthetics - seeing as the Imperial Fists' involvement in the schism revolved around extracting as many suits of power armour from the planet's surface (particularly MkVI) as possible before the blockade closed, it would explain the pattern of power armour and the presence of a force of Sons of Horus to oversee the Warmaster's plans would also be logical.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Iron Hands Fanatic

[sarabando]

So Fists and Sons of Horus - if this is a boxset and not just a core range release, where/when is it set? Mars? Solar War? Siege of Terra itself?

I guess GW have the luxury of an evolving narrative and they can just make up a new conflict but those are the only three I can think of currently.

did the other 2 boxes come out in time with their black books?

We havent reached SOT yet have we?

[jaxom]

 

So Fists and Sons of Horus - if this is a boxset and not just a core range release, where/when is it set? Mars? Solar War? Siege of Terra itself?

I guess GW have the luxury of an evolving narrative and they can just make up a new conflict but those are the only three I can think of currently.

 

Mars makes the most sense to me, given this doesn't appear to have any late-heresy aesthetics - seeing as the Imperial Fists' involvement in the schism revolved around extracting as many suits of power armour from the planet's surface (particularly MkVI) as possible before the blockade closed, it would explain the pattern of power armour and the presence of a force of Sons of Horus to oversee the Warmaster's plans would also be logical.

 

 

Plus it fits with the next thing after it being Dark Mechanicum.

 

 

We havent reached SOT yet have we?

 

That's the rub, isn't it? The BL books outpaced FW because development on Inferno, Malevolence, and Crusade took so long. I don't know if the original plan for 20+ FW books could have survived that; it's a disaster from a management perspective. My guess is one or two more FW books (one for Mars and the Dark Mechanicum, a second for Shadow Crusade, or just Shadow Crusade to Chaos-ify the traitor legions and do Sarum/Dark Mechanicum) before the siege books start. 

[Marshal Loss]

Doubt that it will be Mars, none of the bases are themed appropriately. You'd think they'd do Martian bases if they were launching a major box set which was set on Mars. IIRC they retrieved Mark IV armour from the surface in the BL seriesas well, not Mark VI, although that could easily be changed.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[No Foes Remain]

 

So Fists and Sons of Horus - if this is a boxset and not just a core range release, where/when is it set? Mars? Solar War? Siege of Terra itself?

I guess GW have the luxury of an evolving narrative and they can just make up a new conflict but those are the only three I can think of currently.

did the other 2 boxes come out in time with their black books?

We havent reached SOT yet have we?

 

Calth came out in November 2015 and Tempest came out in May 2015, so not that far off. Prospero came out in October 2016 and Inferno came out in March 2017, so again not that far off.

 

 

All in all it will depend on what the next book is about, and if the rumours of them doing away with the Black Books is true or not. I am hoping for a middle ground, where the Black Books will keep coming out for the 'big events' (like Tallarn for example) and smaller events (and new ones) will be released in the Titanicus format.

[bushman101]

 

We havent reached SOT yet have we?

 

 

Geez, I hope not. I expect a Black Book for Beta Garmon at least

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

 

So Fists and Sons of Horus - if this is a boxset and not just a core range release, where/when is it set? Mars? Solar War? Siege of Terra itself?

I guess GW have the luxury of an evolving narrative and they can just make up a new conflict but those are the only three I can think of currently.

did the other 2 boxes come out in time with their black books?

We havent reached SOT yet have we?

 

Calth came out in November 2015 and Tempest came out in May 2015, so not that far off. Prospero came out in October 2016 and Inferno came out in March 2017, so again not that far off.

 

 

All in all it will depend on what the next book is about, and if the rumours of them doing away with the Black Books is true or not. I am hoping for a middle ground, where the Black Books will keep coming out for the 'big events' (like Tallarn for example) and smaller events (and new ones) will be released in the Titanicus format.

 

 

God I want a Tallarn book so bad, and it'd work amazingly if they're having a number of 30k tanks in plastic, I imagine several plastic base hulls would be a great excuse for them to release a bunch of new variants via resin upgrade kits to coincide with a tank war narrative. Also of course I really just want to see the Iron Hands get their moment in the sun as the armoured warfare Legion.

[Cris R]

Has anyone done a timeline of the events covered by the Black Books and the major events left to cover in 30k? Or ones that Adeptus Titanicus has covered but needs some fleshing out by 30k? I feel like I’ve seen one around here.

[Marshal Loss]

I think this is the latest one:

 

 

Keep in mind though that the designers said that this (& the timelines present in the AT/Black books) are not meant to be taken as a literal roadmap for future releases as changes are constantly made.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[zedmeister]

Some of those events having been covered by Titanicus. I doubt we’ll see them get anything more than a passing mention in a future black boook (if we’re still to get them). I have a pet theory that Battle for Tallarn will be when they introduce Epic 30k.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Id love that

[Taliesin]

So I mainly hope they dont cancel the Black Books, and at least bring out Book 10. But we're not hearing about it. Whats giving me pause is this par of Riku Eru's information:

 

 

 

 

Also there'll probably be something like Indexes for HH coming in late 2021

 

Loyalist Legions

 

Traitor Legions

 

Loyal Mechanicum

 

Dark Mechanicum

 

Loyal/Traitor Humans (so Militia and Armies etc)

 

 

 

Supposedly the rules will be SLIGHTLY adjusted (main point being the Movement Stat for everything in 30k) to make them compatible with 9th Ed. 40k (Just like 30k armies were/still are compatible to play against 7th Ed. 40k armies.)

 

So for all of you way more knowledgeable about the game than me, could these indexes actually replace a Black Book release?

Because the current 40K indices are nothing but rules, it has no worthwhile info on the factions for instance so that would make me think no way that these indices come out could be an actual replacement of a Black Book?

 

Whats giving me pause is these listed indices align so much with the last known real info we had from Pendraigg's 2019 Open Day Report which said about book 10:

 

 

Book 10

 

Book 10 is currently deep into production. Due to size restraints, the Dark Mechanicum army list that was originally planned for Book 9 is now going to be in Book 10. Alongside this will be rules for additional allies for both the loyalists and traitors - this will be along the lines of the Agents of the Emperor / Warmaster concepts from a few years ago. No further details as yet

 

So the stuff he mentions there...is now listed in Riku's rumor post for an index.

 

But of course then they dont have any fluff. Unless the indices for 30k will be different and will have fluff alongside rules?

 

I dont like it, I want them to stick with the Black Books at least for story progression and if they want to indices alongside it, sure go ahead.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Taliesin

[Cris R]

So I mainly hope they dont cancel the Black Books, and at least bring out Book 10. But we're not hearing about it. Whats giving me pause is this par of Riku Eru's information:

 

 

 

 

Also there'll probably be something like Indexes for HH coming in late 2021

 

Loyalist Legions

 

Traitor Legions

 

Loyal Mechanicum

 

Dark Mechanicum

 

Loyal/Traitor Humans (so Militia and Armies etc)

 

 

 

Supposedly the rules will be SLIGHTLY adjusted (main point being the Movement Stat for everything in 30k) to make them compatible with 9th Ed. 40k (Just like 30k armies were/still are compatible to play against 7th Ed. 40k armies.)

So for all of you way more knowledgeable about the game than me, could these indexes actually replace a Black Book release?

Because the current 40K indices are nothing but rules, it has no worthwhile info on the factions for instance so that would make me think no way that these indices come out could be an actual replacement of a Black Book?

 

Whats giving me pause is these listed indices align so much with the last known real info we had from Pendraigg's 2019 Open Day Report which said about book 10:

Book 10

 

Book 10 is currently deep into production. Due to size restraints, the Dark Mechanicum army list that was originally planned for Book 9 is now going to be in Book 10. Alongside this will be rules for additional allies for both the loyalists and traitors - this will be along the lines of the Agents of the Emperor / Warmaster concepts from a few years ago. No further details as yet

So the stuff he mentions there...is now listed in Riku's rumor post for an index.

 

But of course then they dont have any fluff. Unless the indices for 30k will be different and will have fluff alongside rules?

 

I dont like it, I want them to stick with the Black Books at least for story progression and if they want to indices alongside it, sure go ahead.

I’m interpreting that part of the rumor to mean the indices will follow in the footsteps of the Army List Red Books and release rules for the 30k units that already exist in the FW and GW ranges. If that’s the case, the question is whether:

 

1) Specialist Games treats them as a one and done project and then returns to publishing the Black Books and releasing AoD 2.0 with an updated set of Army List Red Books for this system. If they release new units in the Black Books, they’ll probably publish PDFs with profiles that are compatible with the 9th edition indices.

 

2) The indices form the foundation for the system moving forward and subsequent releases build on them. If that’s the case, it’s an open question over the way they want to support the system. They could do Black Books and/or Adeptus Titanicus-style campaign supplements.

 

It’s also possible Specialist tries to support both approaches but that would require more resources to pull off.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Cris R

[Noserenda]

Indices do not mean no black books necessarily, as mentioned, the Red books already fit this perfectly and are kind of needed given how utterly the black books suck as gaming aids. Personally i would like the black books to continue but just make them pure background and story books under black library like the Sabbat war kinda affair and run a titanicus styled set of rule books for whatever AoD ends up being, let each book play to its strengths rather than compromising and lower the bar for entry. 

Like, right now a Talons player need to find two OOP £100+ (The postage is savage on them too as they weigh over 2kg) books to play their full army and that is pretty unacceptable.

[sarabando]

If we are moving to V2 it would make sense to put all the rules in one place before they move forward

[Joe]

Aye, this does feel more like an opportunity to consolidate and refresh rather than outright retire. It'd also give them an opportunity to implement the Early/Mid/Late Heresy split in the rules, assuming they stick to that part of the original plan.

[Cris R]

Yeah, I can see this inflection point as the chance for Specialist Games to make 30k completely align with its model for Necromunda and Adeptus Titanicus, down to the format for the game’s expansions.

 

While I’m sure the existing player base will have different reactions to this potential direction, FW has taken tentative steps towards this model with Crusade, which felt more like a Necromunda or Adeptus Titanicus campaign expansion than a Black Book after FW left out Dark Mechanicum. We’ll see if that book portends these changes.

[Sparika]

Just a thought regarding the "indices" discussion. There is nothing in the rumor stating they are even printed in paper by GW and that could be something like the "Warhammer Legends" pdfs that can be downloaded from the WarCom site.

 

I kind of wish I don't have to replace books. :D

Anyway, it's good to hear new plastics are in the work. I am really surprised by the choice we are hearing of though: Spartan and MkVI. If there is behind a MkII and Leviathan + Contemptor that some nice level of support. Time will tell...

Also, don't forget there is an Aeronautica release already previewed with Space Marines (all Heresy era/FW flyers by the way), so that may be the september slot.

[Chaeron]

Aye, this does feel more like an opportunity to consolidate and refresh rather than outright retire. It'd also give them an opportunity to implement the Early/Mid/Late Heresy split in the rules, assuming they stick to that part of the original plan.

 

I think that'd be a great time to offer it: subtle tweaks that don't invalidate anything from before, but offering differing forms of 'balancing' and reflecting a narrative progression. I think that'd be well-received! 

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

This isn't all that is coming. We may be seeing Mk II and another dreadnought in plastic too but not seen pictures of those.

Fugg. Yes. I've been saying; plastic leviathan base (as long as it's not like the current contemptor, which looks like it pooped itself and stood there!) and the Legion specific ones as resin.

 

Plastic Leviathan and Spartan makes the most sense alongside the Contemptor to be made into plastic kits because of their popularity.

...as well as a full plastic Storm Eagle transport, I think. Though, I'd prefer for infantry to be done in plastic over a flyer. I;E jump troops, dedicated sprues for heavy support squads, etc. 

 

 

“YuO fOoLs tHe HErEsY iZ De… oh wait I’m just full of ”

 

let’s be honest, none of the trolls have enough humility to state how wrong they were. This is super exciting! Plastik Spartan??? I’m blown away…

Idk, I feel like people mocking the complaining are the trolls. Like "see, you're getting support with Titanicus! It doesn't matter that it's a different game in a different scale and you were asking for rules and models and not just setting content. You had a release!"

 

The complaints were all the other specialist ranges got a lot of support, attention and communication; heresy got range cuts, slower releases, rules content cut, and no communication. There was a lot of negligence.

 

I legit had someone say that to me! "You got a release, Titanicus!". In my red-eyed rage, I didn't see I was feeding a troll. 

 

I think in truth more people will use these for 40k than 30k. That is not a bad thing though to be honest because it means sales which means support.

There was talk in my group of using some of the mark VI for the Badab-Brothers thing on instagram. I think i'll definitely add a squad to my Novamarines. 

 

I'm expecting (and hoping) that they switch from the black book format to the supplement system used in Adeptus Titanicus.

Why not both? I like the Black Books, but I would love the same supplements every quarter or so from Titanicus/Necromunda.

 

If HH goes 9th I'd sell my stuff and say you FW. No thank you, I don't want to play such a stupid game designed for casual gamers and children.

Edit: I know technical speaking a teenager is no child but from my perspective the difference are to slim to matter.

In all honesty I am a little bit fed up by that kind of wishlisting. Plastic this plastic that: sure, why not.

Killing the game for every adult which want and likes the pacing of the games mechanics so far just to lure very few kid into HH? Hard to imagine.

Your old rulebooks won't suddenly combust and burst into flames. You can buy the new models and use the old rule set... Battlefleet Gothic isn't supported, but I have a copy of the rules - and i'm still playing... 

[MadHatter5045]

 

dedicated sprues for heavy support squads

 

 

 

I specifically do not want a plastic box with one of each heavy weapon that I have to buy 5 of to get 5 of the weapon I want. I'd rather have the resin 5 pack of each weapon.

[Marshal Loss]

 

I'm expecting (and hoping) that they switch from the black book format to the supplement system used in Adeptus Titanicus.

Why not both? I like the Black Books, but I would love the same supplements every quarter or so from Titanicus/Necromunda.

Because I don't think that's a realistic expectation; putting out c. 4 supplements a year is roughly equivalent output to a black book. There's a reason why they went this way with AT after initially wanting to go in a different direction.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

 

I'm expecting (and hoping) that they switch from the black book format to the supplement system used in Adeptus Titanicus.

Why not both? I like the Black Books, but I would love the same supplements every quarter or so from Titanicus/Necromunda.

Because I don't think that's a realistic expectation; putting out c. 4 supplements a year is roughly equivalent output to a black book. There's a reason why they went this way with AT after initially wanting to go in a different direction.

 

 

Given some of the Black Books have internally focussed on several smaller conflicts with a variety of sub-factions (Extermination, Conquest, Retribution, Malevolence), breaking them down into smaller Titanicus-style books seems pretty viable, although I do wonder if they'd reserve the current Black Book format for the occasional larger conflict (replacing however many of the smaller volumes would equate in the release schedule) - stuff like Beta-Garmon or Tallarn.

[Marshal Loss]

lthough I do wonder if they'd reserve the current Black Book format for the occasional larger conflict (replacing however many of the smaller volumes would equate in the release schedule) - stuff like Beta-Garmon or Tallarn.

I could see them doing something special for Terra, but not for other conflicts. They won't relaunch a game and then jump around between two vastly different supplement systems written by the same team. Whatever format they pick is the one they'll stick to. The design and format of the black books is reflective of what 30k was (and who it was aimed at) when the game was first designed, and things have changed a lot since then. Whatever comes next will depend largely on what GW's goals are for 30k.