State of the Union (Heresy)

[Astartes Consul]

Rann rules look nice & again, good balance of fluffy with effective on the tabletop. 

 

Whatever you think about roadmaps, leaks etc., I think it is quite hard to deny that the majority of the new rules we've seen released since Crusade have followed this pattern. Which is nice to see.

[Slips]

Dominion Zephon's are up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/VJ6hrF8oMbRdH90I.pdf

 

And he's decidedly more 'meh', to me, of a character. Hes not bad, per say, but he doesnt feel like he does anything special besides have a command squad of Destroyers.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's the old problem with being a moritat. They're just damage dealers.

 

Though zephon for some reason doesn't get chain fire. So you know, he's actually much worse than any other moritat.

[bushman101]

Zeph looks neat. That sword combined with rad grenades from Destroyers will be great against infantry. And the ability to come back after being killed on a 4+ might be good on challenges.

 

But can he join Angel's Tears or just vanilla destroyers?

Edited February 16, 2022 by bushman101

[Spagunk]

Zeph looks neat. That sword combined with rad grenades from Destroyers will be great against infantry. And the ability to come back after being killed on a 4+ might be good on challenges.

 

But can he join Angel's Tears or just vanilla destroyers?

 

On Angel's Tears ' ...condition in a BA army may instead include Angel's Tears units as Destroyers'. So yes?

 

The full rules: "Legion Moritats may join an Angel's Tears unit as if it was a Legion Destroyer Squad. Also, any Rite of War that requires Destroyer units to be taken to fulfil any limitation or condition in a Blood Angels army may instead include Angel's Tears units as Destroyers."

So no, Angel Tears are not allowed to be his retinue because this is a warlord trait, not a RoW.

 

One thing to point out is that he only has a single pistol weapon system (gunslinger is both redundant and useless in this regards) and doesn't have chainfire. So he isn't going to be your shooty moritat and is more CC oriented (rare Furious Charge sighting). You're going to want to take destroyers anyway in lieu of 'Tears since they have the extra attack vs Tears. Exception being the Heavy Chainsword tears units because having a bunch of huge chainsword maniacs with this guy's 2h sword would be pretty metal.

[bushman101]

Ah

I took the 'or condition' part of that sentence as being a different condition SEPARATE from a RoW.

 

Zeph still looks good

[Astartes Consul]

Dominion Zephon's are up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/VJ6hrF8oMbRdH90I.pdf

 

And he's decidedly more 'meh', to me, of a character. Hes not bad, per say, but he doesnt feel like he does anything special besides have a command squad of Destroyers.

 

Reads more like a support character to me. Rann you can legit take as a Warlord and build a list with that in mind, whereas Zephon is your second HQ choice in larger games when you want something punchy and also could do with freeing up Elite slots.

[Cris R]

 

Dominion Zephon's are up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/VJ6hrF8oMbRdH90I.pdf

 

And he's decidedly more 'meh', to me, of a character. Hes not bad, per say, but he doesnt feel like he does anything special besides have a command squad of Destroyers.

 

Reads more like a support character to me. Rann you can legit take as a Warlord and build a list with that in mind, whereas Zephon is your second HQ choice in larger games when you want something punchy and also could do with freeing up Elite slots.

 

 

Not quite. The ability to take Destroyers as his retinue only applies when he's your Warlord. If he's your second, non-Warlord HQ choice, he loses that ability and operates like any other IC, meaning you're dealing with the same number of Elite slots.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Cris R

[Astartes Consul]

 

 

Dominion Zephon's are up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/VJ6hrF8oMbRdH90I.pdf

 

And he's decidedly more 'meh', to me, of a character. Hes not bad, per say, but he doesnt feel like he does anything special besides have a command squad of Destroyers.

 

Reads more like a support character to me. Rann you can legit take as a Warlord and build a list with that in mind, whereas Zephon is your second HQ choice in larger games when you want something punchy and also could do with freeing up Elite slots.

 

 

Not quite. The ability to take Destroyers as his retinue only applies when he's your Warlord. If he's your second, non-Warlord HQ choice, he loses that ability and operates like any other IC, meaning you're dealing with the same number of Elite slots.

 

 

Ah I had misread that. 

[Spagunk]

Honestly, having both him and the squad of destroyers as an HQ slot saves a lot of room in ZM games for more elites. I welcome this, tbh.

[Noserenda]

Are there any worse warlord traits out there? Genuine question :D 

[Gorgoff]

Are there any worse warlord traits out there? Genuine question :D

You think gaining a destroyer squad as part of a HQ is bad?

Just look up Bloody handed. That is bad.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Yep, I think he's genuinely good, unlocking his Destoyer retinue, making them 'chosen warriors', and being a melee beatstick (FNP, come back on a 4+, Stubborn LD 10).

Even if he's not a Moritat per se, his handguns are not too shabby. 

At 185 pts. he's a steal with all those abilities stacked on top, considering a 'generic' jump pack Praetor would clock in at roughly the same price without having his abilities.

[Varyn]

 

Are there any worse warlord traits out there? Genuine question

You think gaining a destroyer squad as part of a HQ is bad?

Just look up Bloody handed. That is bad.

 

 

 

Are there any worse warlord traits out there? Genuine question

 

I'd say Abaddon's Intimidating Presence is worse than Zephon's warlord trait and I would take Blood Handed over Intimidating Presence every time!

[Noserenda]

I mean you could just take a Destroyer squad as Elites and then he can join whatever squad you like rather than being stuck with one, you could even give him a regular command squad with the fearless banner :D His warlord trait saves you an elites slot and gives a mediocre rule for some hefty downsides, bloody handed at least gives yo- no i cant defend that :cusse either honestly lol :P  

[Excessus]

Pistol 2...did we have numbers on pistols before?

[No Foes Remain]

Pistol 2...did we have numbers on pistols before?

I don't think so, he also has the gunlsinger rule which kinda makes the duel pistol profile kinda redundant?

[Spagunk]

 

Pistol 2...did we have numbers on pistols before?

I don't think so, he also has the gunlsinger rule which kinda makes the duel pistol profile kinda redundant?

 

Gunslinger is redundant as it's a feature of the pistol weapon type. That said, they only have one pistol weapon "lament and grief" so gunslinger special rule is completely irrelevant for this character. They should have included the text "is a pair of pistol weapons" if they intended this to be two pistols.

 

Edit: The italic text is always fluff info, not rule info. So you would need to see non-italic text telling the player that the one profile is for two pistols.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Spagunk

[Petitioner's City]

So a wee useful  window into FW/SG is the latest TOW article, which features a large section of text by Owen Barnes. Barnes was one of the collaborators with Hoare and Bligh on Rogue Trader and other FFG books, and earlier in its cycle appeared a lot in modernmunda material on Twitch, WHC and other sources, and wrote (for example) the Arbitrator's Guide series on WHC back in 2018. I was hoping he was still with FW/SG, and if so I've long suspected that Barnes, who is a key lore writer for modernmunda alongside the rules, for example, would be part of the 30K team now that it is under Andy Hoare's leadership. While this doesn't confirm it, it more than makes it likely. Needless to say, an excellent person for 30K, if he is part of the 30K production alongside TOW, Necromunda, AI, AT, etc...

 

Anyway, that's supposition, but I think it makes sense :) 

[Taliesin]

Yeah, read that too.

 

What many would like to know is who is actually writing Heresy these days. Is it just Neil Wylie, or has Anuj actually been replaced with someone.

And when are we gonna see some of those books that Anuj has on his Linkedin :) Seems clear he did stuff that was supposed to be published at some point, 2 in fact.

[Petitioner's City]

Yeah, read that too.

 

What many would like to know is who is actually writing Heresy these days. Is it just Neil Wylie, or has Anuj actually been replaced with someone.

And when are we gonna see some of those books that Anuj has on his Linkedin Seems clear he did stuff that was supposed to be published at some point, 2 in fact.

So I think the big answer is given to us on a monthly basis, namely Andy Hoare. Now he manages six games (AT, AI, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, The Old World and Heresy). Given that Andy Hoare runs heresy, I think it's pretty clear its his team of rules writers who will also be working on Heresy (especially given that they work on one heresy game, already!). That's:

• Barnes (whose career includes as mentioned above a lot of FFG work with Hoare and Bligh, and since joining SG, Necromunda, AI, AT, under Hoare).
• Jonathan Taylor-Yorke (very prominent in SG media about 2017-19 for AT and Necromunda, but also one of the leads on AI and BB 2nd edition last year; his facebook currently shows a lot of Old World love too)
• Tom Clarke (who joined SG in March 2018, after leaving his Phd - check out his Twitter, this great
  . You can also read his Grandmaster series on AT.)

Barnes, JTY and Clarke have consistently worked together on the other SG games - AI, AT, Necromunda and Blood Bowl - under Andy Hoare. So it makes sense - after Hoare took over Heresy in the year prior to the pandemic (after the 2019 weekender when he isn't in the Heresy seminars, or at the latest after Anuj Malhotra had his final day in November 2020) - they also moved "over" to work on HH, as they also seem to be doing for TOW.

 

TBH, I am not sure if Wyllie are still with FW, though, but Anuj's message does suggest that he still was at the end of 2020. However it is clear now that his former co-writer, Hoare, is his boss, if he is still in the studio. And Hoare doesn't seem like the person to leave Neil alone on the project, especially as he has the aforementioned "team" of reliable collaborators who were (and potentially still are) seemingly in the same room (if Hewitt's description of FW from 2017 is correct - "Forge World, everyone is all in one room.")

Edited February 19, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Yeah, read that too.

 

What many would like to know is who is actually writing Heresy these days. Is it just Neil Wylie, or has Anuj actually been replaced with someone.

And when are we gonna see some of those books that Anuj has on his Linkedin Seems clear he did stuff that was supposed to be published at some point, 2 in fact.

So I think the big answer is given to us on a monthly basis, namely Andy Hoare. Now he manages six games (AT, AI, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, The Old World and Heresy). Given that Andy Hoare runs heresy, I think it's pretty clear its his team of rules writers who will also be working on Heresy (especially given that they work on one heresy game, already!). That's:

• Barnes (whose career includes as mentioned above a lot of FFG work with Hoare and Bligh, and since joining SG, Necromunda, AI, AT, under Hoare).
• Jonathan Taylor-Yorke (very prominent in SG media about 2017-19 for AT and Necromunda, but also one of the leads on AI and BB 2nd edition last year; his facebook currently shows a lot of Old World love too)
• Tom Clarke (who joined SG in March 2018, after leaving his Phd - check out his Twitter, this great
  . You can also read his Grandmaster series on AT.)

Barnes, JTY and Clarke have consistently worked together on the other SG games - AI, AT, Necromunda and Blood Bowl - under Andy Hoare. So it makes sense - after Hoare took over Heresy in the year prior to the pandemic (after the 2019 weekender when he isn't in the Heresy seminars, or at the latest after Anuj Malhotra had his final day in November 2020) - they also moved "over" to work on HH, as they also seem to be doing for TOW.

 

TBH, I am not sure if Wyllie are still with FW, though, but Anuj's message does suggest that he still was at the end of 2020. However it is clear now that his former co-writer, Hoare, is his boss, if he is still in the studio. And Hoare doesn't seem like the person to leave Neil alone on the project, especially as he has the aforementioned "team" of reliable collaborators who were (and potentially still are) seemingly in the same room (if Hewitt's description of FW from 2017 is correct - "Forge World, everyone is all in one room.")

 

 

I've said this elsewhere, but don't get super excited for the specialist game team. AT has seen some really sloppy rules and a failure to understand integral mechanics the further we've gotten from the original rules. Zephon is a good example with his gunslinger and wording on the warlord trait.

[WrathOfTheLion]

The Zephon/Gunslinger thing isn't anywhere near what was coming out prior with like the Arquitor Bombard rules, so still a major step up in comparison. Not like we're getting a downgrade in rules writing if this is what we should expect as you claim.

[Petitioner's City]

 

 

 

Yeah, read that too.

 

What many would like to know is who is actually writing Heresy these days. Is it just Neil Wylie, or has Anuj actually been replaced with someone.

And when are we gonna see some of those books that Anuj has on his Linkedin Seems clear he did stuff that was supposed to be published at some point, 2 in fact.

So I think the big answer is given to us on a monthly basis, namely Andy Hoare. Now he manages six games (AT, AI, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, The Old World and Heresy). Given that Andy Hoare runs heresy, I think it's pretty clear its his team of rules writers who will also be working on Heresy (especially given that they work on one heresy game, already!). That's:

• Barnes (whose career includes as mentioned above a lot of FFG work with Hoare and Bligh, and since joining SG, Necromunda, AI, AT, under Hoare).
• Jonathan Taylor-Yorke (very prominent in SG media about 2017-19 for AT and Necromunda, but also one of the leads on AI and BB 2nd edition last year; his facebook currently shows a lot of Old World love too)
• Tom Clarke (who joined SG in March 2018, after leaving his Phd - check out his Twitter, this great
  . You can also read his Grandmaster series on AT.)

Barnes, JTY and Clarke have consistently worked together on the other SG games - AI, AT, Necromunda and Blood Bowl - under Andy Hoare. So it makes sense - after Hoare took over Heresy in the year prior to the pandemic (after the 2019 weekender when he isn't in the Heresy seminars, or at the latest after Anuj Malhotra had his final day in November 2020) - they also moved "over" to work on HH, as they also seem to be doing for TOW.

 

TBH, I am not sure if Wyllie are still with FW, though, but Anuj's message does suggest that he still was at the end of 2020. However it is clear now that his former co-writer, Hoare, is his boss, if he is still in the studio. And Hoare doesn't seem like the person to leave Neil alone on the project, especially as he has the aforementioned "team" of reliable collaborators who were (and potentially still are) seemingly in the same room (if Hewitt's description of FW from 2017 is correct - "Forge World, everyone is all in one room.")

I've said this elsewhere, but don't get super excited for the specialist game team. AT has seen some really sloppy rules and a failure to understand integral mechanics the further we've gotten from the original rules. Zephon is a good example with his gunslinger and wording on the warlord trait.

Well this is Forge World, it is their way Edited February 20, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[SkimaskMohawk]

The Zephon/Gunslinger thing isn't anywhere near what was coming out prior with like the Arquitor Bombard rules, so still a major step up in comparison. Not like we're getting a downgrade in rules writing if this is what we should expect as you claim.

The spicula was such a disaster lmao. You can really feel the strain of no staff on the book 8 and 9 rules.

 

But there's also stuff like how most of the new knights and weapons in AT just don't offer any appeal in taking them. Stuff like the void breaker debacle, melee units that have weapons that cause titans to stagger into them and cause collisions and the infamous reversal of the plasma blast gun on the warmaster.

 

I just expect a lack of understanding of rules-based incentives and mechanics.