State of the Union (Heresy)

[Cris R]

I don't want Warzone books. That whole concept sounds horrible and money grabber-ish. I want a rulebook, an army list and a book with rules for every legion and everything they've got and additional books for humies, Mechanicum and a last one for freakstuff like Blackshields, Talon of the Emperor and other agents. That's it.

But don't give me the 40k treatment with dozens of boxes, campaign BS and other stuff I have to buy and wait for to actually play the game.

No thank you.

 

There needs to be some balance with ongoing support for the game system though. I hate meta-chasing as much as the next 30k player but just issuing rules and faction books without doing much else would eventually recreate the same situation we've been in for the last few years, which is sitting around wondering whether the company cares about 30k as much as other systems. Stated another way, we can't let fear or wariness to 30k turning into 40k prevent us from being open to ongoing support, provided it keeps with the spirit of the game and its heritage as a more stable, narrative-driven system. Given that it's Specialist Games who's handling the rules, it's likely we'll see supplements lean towards the Necromunda or AT model, so others can comment on whether this is the right approach since I'm new to the former and don't play the latter.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Cris R

[Astartes Consul]

The Titanicus / Necromunda 'Book of...' model seems more likely that the 40k style Warzone releases IMO. The Warzone model relies on incredibly regular releases that players are essentially forced to buy some, if not all, of during a year. Heresy is never going to have that kind of release schedule. 

 

Tbh, the current Specialist Games model is a good one and i'd be happy to see it replicated for Heresy.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Im most excited by an Index style reset of all the armylists that smooths out some of the bumps and power creep over the years. That initial release is going to set the pace for the rest really, and i hope theyve spent the time to make it good.

 

100% - this is also the model that all the leaks have suggested - e.g we know there are probably separate loyalist & traitor legion books coming out around launch, so I'd assume some red-book style compendiums to carry over all the existing units

 

warzones feel more like they'll combine a narrative & campaign section from Black Books that were split into multiple campaigns/ engagements - e.g how Extermination was divided in Phall, Paramar & the escape from Isstvan V, with maybe a couple units sprinkled in

[MegaVolt87]

 

Im most excited by an Index style reset of all the armylists that smooths out some of the bumps and power creep over the years. That initial release is going to set the pace for the rest really, and i hope theyve spent the time to make it good.

 

100% - this is also the model that all the leaks have suggested - e.g we know there are probably separate loyalist & traitor legion books coming out around launch, so I'd assume some red-book style compendiums to carry over all the existing units

 

warzones feel more like they'll combine a narrative & campaign section from Black Books that were split into multiple campaigns/ engagements - e.g how Extermination was divided in Phall, Paramar & the escape from Isstvan V, with maybe a couple units sprinkled in

 

 

Yeah, red book indexes to start then warzone books. When the edition changes, warzone book units are then added to the new edition red books indexes and the process keeps repeating. Its not a bad model honestly, even if there is a warzone book every 6 months for HH. I don't see one every three months, one a year seems too little but also possible. Who knows what will happen with exemplary battles free PDF's going forwards, they could be bulked out to warzone books themselves down the line. If we want HH content, we need to front up and buy it to get more over time, its the only thing GW understands. 

[Noserenda]

Yeah im pretty sure we are going to see Warzone books, i mean, thats essentially what the Black books are, just taken to an extreme, after all. The "Books of" series works for Necromunda because they have a lot of themes to work around, though i think the last one was a bit of a stretch and the Ash wastes might take a different tack. Titanicus (Best game GW makes incidentally) has done two to consolidate Loyalists and Traitors but i dont think there is more than one more book of that scale in the game (Knights) so im hoping its back to warzones rather than shelved :/ Well, unless we start hitting up Xenos :) 

So yeah, AoD is in a similar position, get the Indexes out and there isnt much more unless you start expanding out, which is super unlikely, for a year or two. Warzones let you get out some play variants, drill down on existing factions, new scenarios and new units/characters with some promptness and if they follow SG pricing dont have to be prohibitively expensive, Win win.

[TheTrans]

Well rumor mongering seems to say they've went the AT route with a loyalist and traitor book, so maybe they are acting as sort of indepth index, then they'll hit us with either warzone books (not ideal) or 'House of' which could work a bit better, but we are then again just adding books to the pile again haha. 

[MegaVolt87]

Not a fan of how 40k has 2-3 part warzone books that cover the same area/evet. Would prefer a self contained one that's larger and a bit more expensive up front about a warzone.

[Dark Legionnare]

Concur with a lot of the sentiments here.  If they're going to go heavy with a reset. Do an "Index style" all in one "Legiones Astartes" covering all the legions and their unique stuff.

I'd really prefer they do a "Big damn book o' 30k" index, covering Mechanicus, militias, etc... but I figure they never would go that far.

As for successors to the black books.  I'd rather a "warzone" book for each major engagement, full of missions, fun stuff, fringe "player" elements where valid, etc... for legions not the focus, but small task-forces to add to fluff/be fun.  They have so much to work with. Shadow War, Beta Gamon, etc, etc... before jumping the shark to Siege of Terra.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Dark Legionnare

[bushman101]

I guess my biggest question is how/if the Exemplary Battle units play into the alleged new edition. None of the new units have Movement stats, so they don't seem to be compatible.

Are these meant to string us along until the new edition releases? Could the lack of units for some legions be an indicator of a release date?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Maybe? But there could be an offset/switch during it. Nothing is to say the Legion books hit right as the core rulebook comes out, could be an index of some kind or instructions on how to modify the current datasheets.

So the exemplary battles could conceivably be running still after the box launch date.

[Cris R]

I guess my biggest question is how/if the Exemplary Battle units play into the alleged new edition. None of the new units have Movement stats, so they don't seem to be compatible.

Are these meant to string us along until the new edition releases? Could the lack of units for some legions be an indicator of a release date?

One’s views of the driving factors for the release of the supplements depends on whether you see them as stringing people along until a new edition drops or providing new support for the game to drum up interest before the new edition, which have subtle differences for the intent behind their release. I tend to fall towards the latter and think the supplements also help the Specialist Team get “back into shape” as they prepare to write new content for the system after the initial release of HH 2.0.

 

As for issues around the stats for the units in these supplements in a post HH 2.0 world, it’ll be easy for GW to upload new versions of the PDFs with the updated stats for the new units that align with HH 2.0.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Cris R

[SkimaskMohawk]

If the exemplary battles are a way to get them back into shape writing rules for 30k, they're going to need a huge montage for 2nd edition.

The rules for precision fire are so badly worded that you can make wildly divergent arguments on how it's intended to work or what the mechanics allow:

-mechanical interpretation 1. Sunkillers ignore cover if they stay still. My preference, but they worded it terribly. They could have just granted them the ignores cover usr if they didn't move, but made a bespoke 40k style thing that turns it into a mess.

-mechanical interpretation 2. Sunkillers strip the ability to take cover permanently if they do damage. Far less likely imo, but mechanically is what the rules say as written.

-mechanical interpretation 3. Sunkillers just don't ignore cover for models with Wounds. Mechanically, you only "suffer a wound" after you fail your save; the timing doesn't work. It gives more weight to #2 mechanically.

-mechanical interpretation 4. Sunkillers ignore cover if their target hasn't moved. The weakest of interpretations; it ignores the placement of the last two commas. But its still a clunky sentence with another comma and it's not like there's a rulebook of for interpreting GW rules.

The point is, if this is the quality of the rules, then they need to tighten it up. This is like original AT2018 rules that functions on inferences and assumptions and not a series of mechanics like 40k 9th or aos 3rd.

 

EDIT: I'll also tac on stuff like zephon's wonky warlord trait wording. Not very clean or concise. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[bushman101]

 

I guess my biggest question is how/if the Exemplary Battle units play into the alleged new edition. None of the new units have Movement stats, so they don't seem to be compatible.

Are these meant to string us along until the new edition releases? Could the lack of units for some legions be an indicator of a release date?

One’s views of the driving factors for the release of the supplements depends on whether you see them as stringing people along until a new edition drops or providing new support for the game to drum up interest before the new edition, which have subtle differences for the intent behind their release. I tend to fall towards the latter and think the supplements also help the Specialist Team get “back into shape” as they prepare to write new content for the system after the initial release of HH 2.0.

Maybe. I guess I'm trying to find the dividing line between Exemplary Battle release now vs the rumored new edition 'soon '

[Cris R]

If the exemplary battles are a way to get them back into shape writing rules for 30k, they're going to need a huge montage for 2nd edition.

 

The rules for precision fire are so badly worded that you can make wildly divergent arguments on how it's intended to work or what the mechanics allow:

 

-mechanical interpretation 1. Sunkillers ignore cover if they stay still. My preference, but they worded it terribly. They could have just granted them the ignores cover usr if they didn't move, but made a bespoke 40k style thing that turns it into a mess.

 

-mechanical interpretation 2. Sunkillers strip the ability to take cover permanently if they do damage. Far less likely imo, but mechanically is what the rules say as written.

 

-mechanical interpretation 3. Sunkillers just don't ignore cover for models with Wounds. Mechanically, you only "suffer a wound" after you fail your save; the timing doesn't work. It gives more weight to #2 mechanically.

 

-mechanical interpretation 4. Sunkillers ignore cover if their target hasn't moved. The weakest of interpretations; it ignores the placement of the last two commas. But its still a clunky sentence with another comma and it's not like there's a rulebook of for interpreting GW rules.

 

The point is, if this is the quality of the rules, then they need to tighten it up. This is like original AT2018 rules that functions on inferences and assumptions and not a series of mechanics like 40k 9th or aos 3rd.

 

EDIT: I'll also tac on stuff like zephon's wonky warlord trait wording. Not very clean or concise. 

 

This is a really good point. I'm assuming the supplements aren't going through the same level of playtesting as the new set of rules but we won't really know until we see the new release.

 

As for seeing the dividing line between the supplements and the new edition, I think it's wiser to invest time elsewhere until we see legit leaks or hear it directly from GW and Specialist Games. It's been almost a year since the first leaks but I don't think they will pull a Half Life 3 and just keep us waiting as we hear "when it's done" from various sources. If I'm wrong and we're in a holding pattern through 2023, I'll treat everyone to a drink at NOVA or Adepticon next year.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Cris R

[Marshal Loss]

Exemplary Battles was a bit dull - the Loremasters article is where it's art.

 

These are all brand new - and even better, don't match the alleged "leaked" art from a while back that I'm fairly certain is just fan art that's been stolen off of DeviantArt.

 

 

None of these are "brand new", FYI:

• The Word Bearer in Mark II was made for Book V: Tempest and never published. I saw it at a previous HH Weekender (though this picture is not mine).
• The Salamander is in Book VI: Retribution, page 25
• The Raven Guard is in Book VI: Retribution, page 22

The Ultramarine Destroyer in Mark II is also an old plate, I believe I saw it back in 2015/16, though I'm not exactly big on Ultramarines so can't claim certainty. People should note that Book VI was originally meant to be the Shadow Crusade, so when FW's artists did all the colour plates for Book V they did tons more that never saw the light of day (beyond being displayed at various FW events in artists' portfolios).

 

As a general rule, previously unpublished/unseen colour plates popping up on WHC don't necessarily mean anything because FW always do far more than they need for every black book. I have nearly two dozen unpublished Sons of Horus colour plates, for example (originally intended for Book IV), that I took pictures of at events. That's not to say that they won't appear in the future (e.g. a Shadow Crusade book drawing upon the resources they already poured into designing it before it was shelved, and the models released subsequently, seems borderline certain), but folks need to remember the way FW has worked in the past.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

Exemplary Battles was a bit dull - the Loremasters article is where it's art.

 

These are all brand new - and even better, don't match the alleged "leaked" art from a while back that I'm fairly certain is just fan art that's been stolen off of DeviantArt.

 

 

None of these are "brand new", FYI:

• The Word Bearer in Mark II was made for Book V: Tempest and never published. I saw it at a previous HH Weekender (though this picture is not mine).
• The Salamander is in Book VI: Retribution, page 25
• The Raven Guard is in Book VI: Retribution, page 22

The Ultramarine Destroyer in Mark II is also an old plate, I believe I saw it back in 2015/16, though I'm not exactly big on Ultramarines so can't claim certainty. People should note that Book VI was originally meant to be the Shadow Crusade, so when FW's artists did all the colour plates for Book V they did tons more that never saw the light of day (beyond being displayed at various FW events in artists' portfolios).

 

As a general rule, previously unpublished/unseen colour plates popping up on WHC don't necessarily mean anything because FW always do far more than they need for every black book. I have nearly two dozen unpublished Sons of Horus colour plates, for example (originally intended for Book IV), that I took pictures of at events. That's not to say that they won't appear in the future (e.g. a Shadow Crusade book drawing upon the resources they already poured into designing it before it was shelved, and the models released subsequently, seems borderline certain), but folks need to remember the way FW has worked in the past.

 

 

any place you've shared the SoH art you took pictures of online? I've seen a lot of these kinda unpublished colour plates from events but 2-dozen ish XVI legion pieces sounds like a real treasure trove and I'd love to check them out

[lordhellblade]

 

 

Exemplary Battles was a bit dull - the Loremasters article is where it's art.

 

These are all brand new - and even better, don't match the alleged "leaked" art from a while back that I'm fairly certain is just fan art that's been stolen off of DeviantArt.

 

 

None of these are "brand new", FYI:

• The Word Bearer in Mark II was made for Book V: Tempest and never published. I saw it at a previous HH Weekender (though this picture is not mine).
• The Salamander is in Book VI: Retribution, page 25
• The Raven Guard is in Book VI: Retribution, page 22

The Ultramarine Destroyer in Mark II is also an old plate, I believe I saw it back in 2015/16, though I'm not exactly big on Ultramarines so can't claim certainty. People should note that Book VI was originally meant to be the Shadow Crusade, so when FW's artists did all the colour plates for Book V they did tons more that never saw the light of day (beyond being displayed at various FW events in artists' portfolios).

 

As a general rule, previously unpublished/unseen colour plates popping up on WHC don't necessarily mean anything because FW always do far more than they need for every black book. I have nearly two dozen unpublished Sons of Horus colour plates, for example (originally intended for Book IV), that I took pictures of at events. That's not to say that they won't appear in the future (e.g. a Shadow Crusade book drawing upon the resources they already poured into designing it before it was shelved, and the models released subsequently, seems borderline certain), but folks need to remember the way FW has worked in the past.

 

 

any place you've shared the SoH art you took pictures of online? I've seen a lot of these kinda unpublished colour plates from events but 2-dozen ish XVI legion pieces sounds like a real treasure trove and I'd love to check them out

 

 

Seconded.   A nice little gallery of unused color plates for the Legions would be much appreciated.

[bushman101]

Damocles went to 'Last Chance to buy' on FW.

Maybe new plastic kit?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Isn't there a Deimos Damocles Rhino as well? Think they just retiring the 40k Mars Pattern one.

[Noserenda]

Yeah they are essentially retiring the interior detail and saving a SKU, now if all the demios stuff vanished id be intrigued :D 

[Robbienw]

I dream of plastic Deimos pattern rhino based vehicle kits :)

[Excessus]

Damocles went to 'Last Chance to buy' on FW.

Maybe new plastic kit?

The WarCom article says it's gonna be rotated out and eventually return to the range.

 

 

Range Rotation

We recently announced that various models were being rotated out of the Warhammer 40,000 range for a time. Now a second wave will leave the range on a temporary basis. The following units will be going off sale on the 3rd of April, but if you order any of them between now and then, you’ll be guaranteed to get one. They will eventually re-enter the range at some point in the future.

 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/20/sunday-preview-avatar-autarch-and-aspect-warriors-aeldari-reinforcements-inbound/?fbclid=IwAR1-kmZjfC7C3mqr24-3eWu9nbZvpX-ijN3G2TDwoIaYrT_nxKrctXdnUTg

[Gorgoff]

So... no word about HH in the schedule of adepticon, eh?

[Slips]

So... no word about HH in the schedule of adepticon, eh?

Beyond the fact that its basically a 50/50 on if its there or not because its just a generic "Adepticon announcements!" banner, no.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Slips

[WITCHKING501]

So... no word about HH in the schedule of adepticon, eh?

 

No word on any game systems at all, must not be showing anything, its just Eddy and Adam talking for an hour about nonsense.

clearly....