IA: The Blood Wraiths

[Bjorn Firewalker]

 

Shame for them would also have nothing to do with beating or killing a serf,

It's more about the marine showing himself losing control by doing the act than the act in itself.

Good idea! Losing oneself to bloodlust, should be a great shame to the Marines- and considering Khorne tried to lure Sanguinius to his service, and continues trying to lure Blood Angels in this manner (Chief Librarian Mephiston being one example, if his 1d4chan article is correct), something that will draw the Chaplains and Librarians' scrutiny.

 

 

Yes but does science forbid that habitable moons orbit a habitable world?

NATURAL science does, the way it forbids humans breathing underwater. Technology allows humans to circumvent such limitations, via snorkels and scuba gear; likewise, archeotech will allow habitable moons to orbit a habitable planet.

 

Just be prepared to answer some questions. You can even turn them to your benefit- close relations with the AdMech, whose Tech-priests will KILL for just a glance at such archeotech, or give your Marines better killing instruments (weapons) in payment.

Or it could just be a cause of "we found them with breathable atmosphere, what do you mean that's unusual?" followed by "no, you may not begin researching our moons", which is maybe followed by "they are cursed you know, last group that tried researching them winded up dead. Sad story, really should have keep away."

Good ideas. Let's lay a foundation for the mystery the Chapter planet holds within itself- one for which the Marines will kill all who threaten to expose it- instead of leaving it bare, unlike J. J. Abrams' EPIC FAILed attempts at worldbuilding. Maybe the giant Chapter planet is a gas giant that imprisons a powerful Daemon within its metallic core, and its habitable outer surface a manmade (or xeno made) shell with wards inscribed upon it, to keep the Daemon imprisoned? Maybe the moons were archeotech superweapons, the earth covering them the product of space dust drawn to their gravity during the millennia since they were abandoned, and the Chapter learned how to access and then reactivate some of their systems?

 

I was taking a page out of star wars, the forest moon of Endor. Carpathia is a massive planet. The 5 moons that are habitable are naturally occurring.

What kind of people do the moons have, since I guess that are a bit different than the people down below

Good point! As the Chapter planet has an Eastern European culture, maybe the moons' inhabitants have cultures from neighboring regions, i.e., Turkish, Greek, Germanic, Russian?

[Gamiel]

 

 

 

Yes but does science forbid that habitable moons orbit a habitable world?

NATURAL science does, the way it forbids humans breathing underwater. Technology allows humans to circumvent such limitations, via snorkels and scuba gear; likewise, archeotech will allow habitable moons to orbit a habitable planet.

 

Just be prepared to answer some questions. You can even turn them to your benefit- close relations with the AdMech, whose Tech-priests will KILL for just a glance at such archeotech, or give your Marines better killing instruments (weapons) in payment.

Or it could just be a cause of "we found them with breathable atmosphere, what do you mean that's unusual?" followed by "no, you may not begin researching our moons", which is maybe followed by "they are cursed you know, last group that tried researching them winded up dead. Sad story, really should have keep away."

Good ideas. Let's lay a foundation for the mystery the Chapter planet holds within itself- one for which the Marines will kill all who threaten to expose it- instead of leaving it bare, unlike J. J. Abrams' EPIC FAILed attempts at worldbuilding. Maybe the giant Chapter planet is a gas giant that imprisons a powerful Daemon within its metallic core, and its habitable outer surface a manmade (or xeno made) shell with wards inscribed upon it, to keep the Daemon imprisoned? Maybe the moons were archeotech superweapons, the earth covering them the product of space dust drawn to their gravity during the millennia since they were abandoned, and the Chapter learned how to access and then reactivate some of their systems? 

My money is on that the moons were terraformed by the ancient culture/group that also created the throne hidden below the Chapter's fortress-monastery. And the Marines don't really care if there is some kind of ancient terraformation tech hidden below their moons, they just don't want anybody to be looking around, they have way to many secrets after all.

[gripschi]

If the Worlds are old, it is possible that they are already self sufficent and the Terraforming Maschines long borke, or that simmilar to the Culture on the Book of David Weber, Heir of the Imperium. The Civilastion banned technolgy and worship a KI. They use old manuals and tech speech in there Religion.

 

In the books the Imperium used once ball shaped ships, which they covered up as Moons. Maybe they poses such a "Moon" as Monastery, more reasons to not let People sniff around. Even possible that the Ship see the Adepts as "Danger" and activley seek ways to get rid of them.

 

Maybe this allow you some further ideas how to tackle this.

 

Overall a rather good Sci Fi Series.

[Bloodwraith]

I will be writing some more soon now that exams are done. I did get published on 40K theories. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajwzL-ZZmoM&list=PL7NUrRUMQlUQxolZhWk2q7FrHCV6dbn_g&index=1

 

also you can check out the apocalypse scale painting project i am doing for this on Instagram  at:

 

9th_legion_sons_of _sanguinius 

[Algrim Whitefang]

Here's some updated images for your bloody boyos, Bloodwraith. Enjoy the pics!

Blood Wraiths armorial with Chapter iconography.

Blood Wraiths Assault Intercessor (updated).

Blood Wraiths Primaris Heavy Intercessor (updated).

[Minigiant]

Here's some updated images for your bloody boyos, Bloodwraith. Enjoy the pics! 

 

You have certainly been very busy

[Bloodwraith]

@Algrim Whitefang

 

WOW Those are amazing!!! Thank you

[Bloodwraith]

I updated and changed some information on their founding. To bring them in line with my Horus Heresy project.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I appreciate the additional details on the Chapter planet's moons, which dealt with one of my hangups regarding it.

[Gamiel]

The pics are a noshow for me. Do others have this problem?

[Bloodwraith]

The y showed on the old site. Not sure why they aren’t showing now

[Codex Grey]

It's part of the website update process. If I understand the admins correctly, this will be fixed automatically in time. However, you can manually fix the images by reinserting them if you want them fixed sooner.

[Minigiant]

22 minutes ago, Codex Grey said:

It's part of the website update process. If I understand the admins correctly, this will be fixed automatically in time. However, you can manually fix the images by reinserting them if you want them fixed sooner.

Or you can just press return after the url and it will reset

[Codex Grey]

So I read through your write-up. You have a good imagination and decent execution, but I'm struck with just how many different BIG ideas are lumped together. The sheer amount of canon-stretching ideas in one DIY Chapter is a bit too much for me  (2nd founding, immortal chapter master, chimeric gene-seed experiments with superpowered results, Fabious Bile interaction, blank marines, Dante defiance, etc.). If you like that then go for it, though I'm not sure what feedback to give.

Maybe it's less controversial to create 2nd founding Chapters nowadays, but if you want to avoid it, you could make them a third founding blood angels successor using the the name and heraldry of a BA Legion Chapter lost sometime during the Heresy/Scouring. The training cadre could be the last surviving members of this legion chapter given the honor of raising a new one. This way you have an old Chapter with the connection to the Legion without pushing them into the 2nd founding. This would be making up a new Blood Angels Legion Chapter though, but I think there is more room for that? I may be wrong.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Codex Grey

[Bloodwraith]

The legions were over 100000 and the chapters varied in size but were never less than 1000. NONE of the legions have had all or even most of their chapters have had even a fraction of them be named. And 10000 years of lost history leaves a lot of room. The 2nd founding was the largest with the Ultima and 3rd founding being the only ones close. I have been around since RT era and I get the stigma over the 2nd founding but I always disagreed with it. The Ultramarines alone would have sired almost 200 chapters, the Dark Angles and Blood Angels about 20-50 each, White Scare 15-20, Raven Guard, Iron Hands and Imperial Fists 10-15 just based on what their numbers would have been after the Heresy and the scouring. Only the Salamanders and Wolves would not have split. So after you remove the meat fraction of that number GW named it leaves a lot of room. I never agreed with that mindset the listed 2nd founding was the absolute of what was created because of the factors above and GW NEVER said that. I can appreciate if you think the chapter stuff is too much but it is a summary of 10 thousand years of things and almost all of them have come at a cost and caused issues for the chapter. There are far more flaws than any benefits received so it is to show their tragic decent. It stems all the way back to Sanguinius essentially casting them aside because they were originally the revenant Terran born sons. So every step they take was just another step away from the light and beliefs of their primarch while not crossing to chaos or breaking with the imperium. 

The chimeric results were the opposite of super powered. They took one flaw and caused another. There are other chapters now with a sort of battle precog but theirs comes at the cost of their sanity being cursed with visions of their own death that can occur at anytime.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Bloodwraith

[Bloodwraith]

Also the chapter masters Memory and psyche are “immortal” not him physically and it is open for negative influence from this dangerous arcgeotech and possible deterioration ect. Again a more likely flaw than benefit 

[Gamiel]

13 minutes ago, Bloodwraith said:

The 2nd founding was the largest with the Ultima and 3rd founding being the only ones close.

The Twenty First Founding was suppsedly the largest Founding of Space Marine Chapters since the Second Founding, at least before the Ultima one. 

[Bloodwraith]

True I forgot about the 21st. There were 200 in the third for reference and it was smaller than the 2nd. My main point was we know of maybe 30 from the 2nd founding so there is a lot of room there

[Codex Grey]

2 hours ago, Bloodwraith said:

Also the chapter masters Memory and psyche are “immortal” not him physically and it is open for negative influence from this dangerous arcgeotech and possible deterioration ect. Again a more likely flaw than benefit 

This brings up an interesting point. How would this aspect as a flaw manifest itself? Is this something you have considered, any plans? Could be cool to see. Right now it seems like untapped potential. Feels like one could base a whole Chapter around this single concept.

[Bloodwraith]

It will/ has started to maniples as a psychosis. The more “new” hosts that go into the machine the more memories, personalities ect. It’s going to lead to a type of multiple personality disorder with Lazarus struggling to identify which memories and personality is in charge. Etc. 

[Gamiel]

8 hours ago, Bloodwraith said:

Only the Salamanders and Wolves would not have split.

The SW did split but the one successor we know of did not last, they fell to the curse of the wolfen. 

 

And it could be that both the Slamanders and the SW did have successors that we today do not know of. 

[Bloodwraith]

This does not need to be so overly litteral. The Space Wolves had the wolf brothers, that failed very soon after creation, the salamanders no named at all, So yes they could both have had some but nothing officially recorded… so DIYs absolutely and possible future lists from GW. I really don’t want this thread devolving into a lore versus lore showdown discussions  on being over specific on things not about this topic. The point was and still is the 2nd founding IS NOT off limits for DIYS because of the sheer number of chapters not listed and the fact that all records on the 2nd founding and post heresy early era are incomplete. Now please back to the topic of the chapter IA. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Bloodwraith

[Minigiant]

2 hours ago, Bloodwraith said:

This does not need to be so overly litteral. The Space Wolves had the wolf brothers, that failed very soon after creation, the salamanders no named at all, So yes they could both have had some but nothing officially recorded… so DIYs absolutely and possible future lists from GW. I really don’t want this thread devolving into a lore versus lore showdown discussions  on being over specific on things not about this topic. The point was and still is the 2nd founding IS NOT off limits for DIYS because of the sheer number of chapters not listed and the fact that all records on the 2nd founding and post heresy early era are incomplete. Now please back to the topic of the chapter IA. 

I agree with Codex Grey on this point, and we have discussed this at great lengths. Having a 2nd Founding opens up a lot more proverbial holes in a DIY Index Astartes that is honestly just easier to avoid entirely by being a 3rd Founding or later, in fact the later the founding the more concrete the IA is in my opinion. It is not just about the founding but the time that exists between then and "now", that is a lot of imperial lore they have had to live through and not be recorded at.

[Codex Grey]

Quote

I agree with Codex Grey on this point, and we have discussed this at great lengths. Having a 2nd Founding opens up a lot more proverbial holes in a DIY Index Astartes that is honestly just easier to avoid entirely by being a 3rd Founding or later, in fact the later the founding the more concrete the IA is in my opinion. It is not just about the founding but the time that exists between then and "now", that is a lot of imperial lore they have had to live through and not be recorded at.

As Bloodwraith has laid out, there is room for DIY 2nd Founding Chapters, previously and especially now with the current lore, and I think his rationale is sound. The question is more if you should, not if you can, but I don't think it creates any holes. And fleshing out the time between the founding and current times is one one of the things I think Bloodwraith has done pretty well with this write-up, partly because they don't stick to the standard IA format. So the only issue I can see if you want to make the write-up more digestible for a wider/specific audience, but Bloodwraith is not too concerned with conforming to other people's expectations on this matter. And finally, while there's potential for an interesting discussion around the matter, Bloodwraith has requested we move on from the subject, so let's do that 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Codex Grey

[Bloodwraith]

I complete disagree because there are plenty of cases of chapters, organizations and people appearing in the lore dating back to that time that have or had little to no recorded history. The Charcharadons and Ashen claws are both great examples. They are being fluffed out now because of popularity. Almost all the names 2nd founding out side of the 5-6 popular ones have nothing but color, logo and gene-seed origin. The 2nd founding likely had well over 300 chapters and less than 30 named and they are “lost” to history. I have been around since the RT era and there was always this great stigma the 2nd was tabo because a loud minority kept claiming ONLY the names ones could be used. That is a crap argument because under that logic there should be NO DIYS… because the founding they are from they were not named. Also I disagree that the founding doesn’t matter. If it isn’t explained well in the story sure. And mine is still in development, but my lore originally was written for the 40K timeline. But now I am going back piece by piece and will be writing and explaining how the evolution from a disgraced 99th of the Blood Angels legion to the chapter that essentially hates their own bloodline has occurred. Also as pointed out the Imperium is on ruins in many ways and an administrative and bureaucratic nightmare. HUNDREDs of not thousands of chapters don’t even know their own origins and or gene sire. So sorry I just don’t buy those arguments when there are gaps made in the lore intentionally for us to do this. The 2nd founding thing is a fan made tabo just like all the garbage that happened when the Soul Drinkers were named a 2nd founding at that was a GW story. I don’t by into that kind of thinking and won’t limit my story telling with it. Now if GW comes out tomorrow with a list of all the 2nd founding or retcons to what is named is it etc… hey different story. But they haven’t done that yet. I also really don’t like the 3rd founding idea proposed because it doesn’t jive with what I want to do with Kaine. He is bitter with his legion and His Primarch, not enough to turn to chaos which he abhors but enough to want to take his brothers and chart their own path like the black shields and the nomad predation fleets. Both of which also exist with little lore but we have strong inclinations the Charcharadons we’re definitely from this time and have been a predation fleet for nearly 10k years with little to no imperial records. Also it’s tan fiction. You create the records as long as you don’t go against the established benchmark stories or try to place them into the Badab war or established battles in the crusade and heresy. Even the battle for terra will never cover every battle across the planet. it’s why my chapter Was not at the siege level f Baal, nowhere of significance during the war of the beasts. Like every other chapter they were likely fighting orcs off in there own sector. Again I don’t buy into that type of tabo story telling limits. As long as you work around established lore and then make sure you don’t interject them into things they were not named in, every piece of any fluff diy is just that. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Bloodwraith