Warhawk by Chris Wraight

[Umbros]

This might be the first time I've seen someone complain about the showdown between those two. I found it one of the best scenes in BL.

[b1soul]

I thought the Khan did about as well as a loyalist primarch could do against a Chaos-empowered primarch without undermining the power advantage offered by Chaos, which is what makes aligning with Chaos so tempting

 

The best he could hope for was a double KO and he barely managed to pull it off at potentially the ultimate cost

Edited November 28, 2021 by b1soul

[mc warhammer]

 

God, the Khan was so effing annoying in this book. It was very obvious that Wraight is a huge White Scars fan with the way he portrayed them.

A normal non psychic primarch fighting a newly minted Daemon Primarch with psychic powers, of Nurgle no less, should have been a completely one sided fight in Mortarion's favor, but Wraight had to throw in the Khan's always mean spirited and short sighted jabs and make that fight have a totally unrealistic outcome. The Perpetuals still serve no point, in my opinion and should have never been invented and the normal humans get far too much focus. Also, why is Loken still alive at this point? He's just some rando loyalist SoH captain yet he's miraculously survived fights and situations, that frankly, he shouldn't have. I did enjoy however, what they did with Keeler and Sigismund showing what the Imperium will eventually devolve to.....a testament to humanity's capacity for ignorance and blind hatred.

 

 

Given we wouldn't have the Vth legion as we understand them now without Wraight's work, well maybe he is a fan.

 

But equally he's a big DG fan too.

 

Oh no!

 

But maybe it's better not to look at a book like this a depiction of "sides" or "teams" - this isn't sport, but rather someone with a (big, PhD-minted) brain trying to thematically engage with their subject matter.

 

yeah, the idea that a writer can't let go of a bias or favouritism for a faction or character is skimming close to insulting

[Scribe]

So this feels...decent, so far but its really not hooking me, and you all know I'm a Wraight fanboy.

 

I'm about half way through, and there are some decent pieces here, some little nods that I smiled at, but the characterization is mostly a miss?

 

I like Fo the most so far lol...

[GenerationTerrorist]

Have to say that I absolutely loved this book. IMHO the story, characterisation, emotions all get built up better every time the series goes on.

[Scribe]

Have to say that I absolutely loved this book. IMHO the story, characterisation, emotions all get built up better every time the series goes on.

 

Maybe it picks up? As I mentioned Fo, and I guess the bits on Mortarion are really all we have so far at the half way point, and I'm almost to a fault a fan of Wraight, so...we will see.

[StraightSilver]

 

Have to say that I absolutely loved this book. IMHO the story, characterisation, emotions all get built up better every time the series goes on.

 

Maybe it picks up? As I mentioned Fo, and I guess the bits on Mortarion are really all we have so far at the half way point, and I'm almost to a fault a fan of Wraight, so...we will see.

 

To be honest I felt exactly the same. I was super excited for the book as I am a big Wraight fan, but found it chogged along at a bit of a plod. I struggled to get into it and then all of a sudden something "clicked" and I couldn't put it down. I can't even remember where it picked up but by the end of it I loved it. 

[Carach]

Consider it left over lethargy from previous books I would say - as they have all bar the first suffered from that overly bloated, repetitive problem, but it does pick up and become one of the better books of the siege series. As SS says above; it kind of just sneaks up on you.

[Chaoself]

I just finished the book today. I found it quiet enjoyable to read.

[Scribe]

Finished. Good I think. Do I need to spoiler everything or is the grace period over?

 

Test, completed. Ok I'll fill out spoiler tags while I order dinner...

 

TLDR: Its a good book, but I think the scope of the Siege, the many threads, the varied theatres, does a disservice to Wraight's typical slow burn into a rising climax pattern from his other books. There's just too much going on.

 

Conclusion: 7-8/10 on my wildly arbitrary 'what have you done for me lately' scoring.

 

Spoilers in the Spoiler as I was actually making tiny notes as I worked through this. Lots and lots of little nods throughout the book, almost too many, like...I almost hate to say it, like how to write a 30K/40K book.

 

Page 60: I believe this to be a callout to the lore entry of the World Eaters taking the wall breach first.

 

Page 90: The Black Sword was always on Terra. The first call out in this book I believe, that the story the Imperium was built on, was a lie.

 

Page 156: The insanity of the Plague Marines/Death Guard is on display. You can see that the warp/Nurgle, has unhinged them.

 

Page 195: A little call out to Abominable Intelligence as the Imperium calls it.

 

Page 235: Erda, the Lady of Chaos. I didnt hate her scenes, but found a few things interesting. Of note

 - 351: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHecateSisters ?

 - 353: Hints that she draws power from the "World Soul" of Terra? Similar to the "Spirit of Fenris"? I will say, I loathe that line of lore, but it is what it is.

 

Page 258: Valdor Dowsing? lol. I didnt make a note of it, but there is also the Daemon Valdor kills that is worshipping below the Palace that has been there 'forever'. Love that.

 

Page 264: Creation of the Emperor's Tarot.

 

Page 323: Description of the Night Lord, on point, and Fo again seems the most interesting character of the book outside of Shiban

 

Page 350: Shiban faced with Chaos, asking what it would take to 'hurt' the Death Guard, which we see contrasted with Sigismund, who already gets it, and Lokan, who denies it.

 

Page 357: The reality of the Imperium, the final truth. Vengeance, and Duty. Thats all that is left. This is the final conclusion to French's The Last Remembrancer. The Imperial Lie, for it was never the Imperial Truth, is dead and gone. There is nothing else but the future Sigismund embodies.

 

Page 365: "Its just a joke bro." is all I read here regarding Russ lol.

 

Page 398: Khârn dies. The Imperium is born. You see this somewhat reflected when the Khan dies and the Scars engage the "DEATH" psyche. Its a soullessness. A coldness. Chaos IS humanity. It is LITERALLY the passion of humanity made manifest. It has been such for decades. The Imperium is DEATH. The Imperium is STASIS. This is Law/Chaos, the foundational divide that GW cribbed from Moorcock made plain.

 

Page 449: The conclusion of the Scars arc, as they step back from the soulless abyss that Sigismund has embraced. This was well done I feel.

 

--------

 

(Dis) + Honourable Mentions.

 

Loken: Forgettable. I cringe to think of where his arc is going as its really going to feel forced to me. Just let him be forgotten please.

 

Ol: A let down from Mortis in my opinion. I thought they finally had him going somewhere, but these books are just too wide and sprawling to do it all justice I guess.

 

Fo: I hope he gets serious screen time with ADB's book.

 

Keeler: Great lol, but the jump from book to book seems like she went full crazy REALLY quick. Maybe I just havent been paying attention to her and she was always a fanatic, but she's full blown at this point. The early proto Redemptionists I guess.

 

Sigismund: A perfect end to his role in my opinion. Represent exactly what the Imperium will be, in combination with Keeler.

Khârn: Works for me. I'm a Khorne fan to the bitter end, and I love that Wraight can actually be respectful of every faction and its characters.

 

Death Guard: Wraight salvages their poor showings and contradictory lore.

Scars: A rightful conclusion to the arc in my opinion.

 

 

2 left. Things seem on track so far, and I cant really complain about anything too much in this book.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Scribe

[byrd9999]

Just finished this tour-de-force from Chris Wraight, and I loved it. It's up there with Saturnine as the best of the Siege and some of the best prose/plotting/characterisation/motivation that Black Library offers.

 

I have read all 14 pages of this thread, and many others have said what I would have said already, so I'll just add that:

 

- The scenes with Sigismund had my hairs standing on end.

 

- The Death Guard arc is redeemed after many years. Wraight does a magnificent job of weaving a completely plausible throughline between the Mortarion/Typhus beats so far and ends up unifying them into a satisfying whole.

 

- Epic Primarch fights can be totally satisfying without needing to be a 30 page slog through tedious descriptions of each cut and thrust. Wraight's style of portraying the psychology of the battle, as much as the actual fighting, is more effective.

 

- The Aftermath chapter, where each snippet bleeds thematically into the next is a real treat and a sign of how talented an author he is. As much praise as Abnett and ADB get, if Wraight ever stopped writing for BL, it would be a massive loss. Appreciate him while he's here and in full-on productive mode!

 

 

10/10

Edited January 21, 2022 by byrd9999

[Red_Shift]

I just finished it and I thought it was the best siege book I’ve read. Never once did I feel it was a slog to read through battle scenes and I found all of the various character threads interesting in their own rights. 
 

The Khan vs Mortarian fight was really well done. Even though I knew the White Scars take the spaceport I still didn’t quite expect that level of brutality.

 

I feel so immensely sorry for Dorn. His utter despair and the unending commitment to duty which the book makes clear he has always done, even when other primarch were cutting loose a bit. He doesn’t even get a moment of brotherly bonding before the end and even remarks that he would have liked to have spoken to Jaghatai. I’m amazed he doesn’t fall to chaos as he is pushed to the brink in such a way. I’m not sure how his arc will play out from here; we know he ends up on the vengeful spirit and his despair can only be magnified from there. I’m assuming Sanguinious will be the one to break Angron but maybe in the end it will be Dorn? He’s clearly spoiling to get back in the fight. 

[Sothalor]

The Dorn we see in Warhawk is probably the one that most recognizably has an arc to the Iron Cage; throughout the Heresy and the Siege, Dorn has been the most stoically bound to his duties in a way that sets him apart from the other loyalist Primarchs, especially of the Primarchs at the Siege.

 

It's like a letter versus spirit of the law thing. Dorn, Jaghatai, and Sanguinius are all loyal to the Emperor. However, they express it in different ways.

 

The Khan has always been independent minded and stubbornly mercurial about doing things his way.

 

Sanguinius is caught in the throes of visions of destiny, his impending doom, and is more fey than ever throwing himself into seemingly unwinnable, nonsensical fights. Sure, he may be winning them somehow, but to somebody like Dorn it must appear as a form of nihilistic fury.

 

Oh yes, and before that there was Leman Russ, who had made it back to Terra, and then seemingly threw it all away by charging off and taking his legion on a suicide mission to strike at Horus with no discernable benefit.

 

And Vulkan, who appears suddenly back from the dead, but with no legion forces, who refuses to contribute to the defense and disappears into the Emperor's throne room with no explanation.

 

And here Rogal Dorn is, having done everything that was asked of him - having fortified the throneworld and the system, having ruined (in his own view) the palace by demolishing the Emperor's vision and replacing it with brute defensive structures. He's stayed behind like the proper commander - dealing with the logistics, the assignments, the plans and redundancies and coordination and all that boring, tedious :cuss that nonetheless has to get done. From a certain point of view, he's the one being the Responsible Adult about this whole waging a galactic civil war mess.

 

I can totally see how in the aftermath of the Siege, with the Emperor enthroned, Malcador dead, Sanguinius dead, the whole dream of the Imperium in flames and ashes - how all that duty, that self-control, that suppression of his own self and desires - he's probably going through a whole lot of internal turmoil and resentment. At least some of which is probably shaped by a tinge of "my brothers all did their own thing." I can see Dorn approaching the Iron Cage with a mentality of "I'm going to do this my way, consequences be damned. I earned this."

[Carach]

Kind of want to see him a bit like the ending of Watchmen - where he just breaks. It'll be the only time he breaks. But he breaks. On the Vengeful Spirit having dealt with all that he has, and seen the dream finally dead along with his brother and (kind of) his old man. 

 

Then it's off to the Iron Cage...

 

A bit like how I felt reading the ending of The First Heretic with the WB folks facing off against the Custodes. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Carach

[Tymell]

I'm late as ever, but devoured this one recently, and after all the problems of the Siege books so far, this was such a much-needed breath of fresh air (oddly, coming from a book with the Death Guard featured so prominently...).

 

As I've banged on about before (and surely will do again), the biggest issue I've had with the Siege books has been lack of focus, too many scattered plotlines vying for attention, sometimes totally disconnected from one another. The Solar War stood as a great example of how to balance things properly, to cover a wide conflict and multiple threads while having it all still feel focused. Warhawk can proudly join the opening book in that regard: there's still a lot going on, but it all feels coherent. The bulk of the book focuses on the Scars' assault to re-take the Lion's Gate spaceport, and most of the other things going on in the book still feel like they serve a purpose in painting the wider conflict, as everything breaks down and it becomes this filthy, brutal scrum amid the desolation.

 

Nothing needs to be said specifically about the Scars and their portrayal here, Wraight has long since proven himself the master of them in this setting, and the Death Guard are also wonderfully covered here. In particular, Warhawk feels like it does a great job trying to fix some of the issues from Buried Dagger (though also, as it's done through the mouth of a daemon, leaving things open enough to interpretation if need be). We've previously seen Mortarion seeming to leap straight into the sorcery he despised with little explanation, Typhon playing Mortation like a fiddle with his own schemes, and the normally stern primarch of the Death Guard allowing his second to get away with just about anything with no real consequences.

 

In Warhawk, this is put into a new light: that Mortarion knew that his sons needed to become something more. As he always had, he wanted them able to survive anything, to take to any field of battle, endure and triumph, even the Warp itself. And like exposing them to new toxins to build their resistance, he needed the influence of Chaos to push his legion to this new level of suffering. So when Typhon returned to him, Mortarion knew exactly what he was and how damned he had become, and he let Typhon back in, using him as the means to bring about this hellish transformation, then sealing the pact with his own daemonic ascension. Typhon was Nurgle's extended hand, and Mortarion took it, damning them all even before they entered the Warp.

 

It's great, and it pains me that we never got a Wraight-helmed Buried Dagger, but this is still a decent consolation prize.

 

Khan vs. Mortarion is magnificent, such a well-written fight, and Shiban's speech to pull the grief-stricken Scars back into line later is a stirring, powerful scene.

 

Aside from all this, we also get a number of smaller threads that help paint the picture of both the current conflict and how this is all leading towards the Imperium as we know it.

Keeler rouses the people into the increasingly fanatical Imperial cult, with growing emphasis on self-sacrifice and destruction of the traitors. It is, as Loken himself points out, madness, but it is the way of things now. To quote Keeler: "We tried to build an empire on enlightenment and it failed.", "We will all become mad, if that's what it takes." Similar to the above bits about Mortarion, it's something I wish we'd seen more of across the entire Heresy series, showing how the Great Crusade era was so fundamentally different, and the loss of it so sad. Sigismund contributes to that same theme, as he goes on his own grim-faced rampage through traitors, including an excellent and telling duel with Khârn. Like a transhuman version of what Keeler is doing, he's abandoning the hope and enlightenment of the past for cold, brutal determination, and it's both impressive and tragic. Death on a massive scale not for some noble end goal, but for its own sake, because that's all that's left, embracing the madness of futile destruction as the only way to survive in a mad universe.

 

On that note, one negative point is that Keeler's whole character through the Siege books feels inconsistent, with each book seeming to take her in a different direction. It's jarring, but it's also not Warhawk's fault, and I find her portrayal here more engaging than most others, so I'll take it.

 

There are also a few other more minor bits: Valdor & Fo, Oll, John and their crew, Erda. These don't really contribute much to this book specifically, but I get why they're here, and they don't take up too much of the book anyway.

 

Also, the Skye Plate being used as gargantuan moving cover for the advance on Lion's Gate port, and then ultimately it falling in an apocalyptic firestorm: this is exactly the kind of gloriously over-the-top insanity I want from the Siege. More please.

 

A minor point, and apologies if this is already a well-known thing: at one point Shiban thinks of his brotherhood: "You are the brothers of the Storm, he had told his warriors on the eve of the first assault. When victory is achieved here, they shall call you its lords." - Is this maybe an indication that Shiban and the remains of his Brotherhood go on to found the Storm Lords chapter?

 

Anywho, in closing: this book is great. It sits alongside The Solar War as my favourite of this series so far, and with ADB's book to come next, I'm hopeful that this trend may continue for what little remains.

 

Oh and for anyone interested, I kept up a rough page-count of the amount of the book devoted to the different threads in here (there is a small bit of overlap, usually during the major duels, but I mostly kept it separated):

• White Scars (including Ilya and their other allies like Aika-73): 42%
• Death Guard: 19%
• Sigismund's harrying actions (Imperial Fists, World Eaters, Sons of Horus): 18%
• Valdor/Fo: 6%
• Oll, John et al.: 6%
• Keeler: 5%
• Erda: 4%

So Lion's Gate makes up the bulk of the book, the on-going war through the palace another sizeable chunk, and then the other remaining threads a few little bits here and there.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Tymell

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

 

 

I just finished reading my imported copy today. Feel free to ask any questions that may need clarifying from the various lore threads/breakdowns that are knocking around.

 

I just want to say after reading the book that I will never look at a Leviathan Dreadnought in the same way.

Loken is in the Dramatis Personae. Is there any mention of his no longer suppressed powers or the Sword Mourn-it-All?

The sword was certainly not mentioned. He doesn't feature much tbh. I can't recall anything about his suppressed powers.

It has taken me way to long to get my hands in this book but I can finally say you sir are wrong about Mourn-it-all. While it was not name dropped, it was said explicitly that

He used lol Horus"a sword when it felt right.

It also seems that he has let go of the chain sword all together.

 

This to me is big news. Garviel is now wielding a chaos/ deamon sword... When it "feels right" killing untold number of souls, during the biggest pressure cooker of chaos tainted battle fields. Where the powers are pushing the Vail hard. All while getting on the job training, dyi style no less, on how to be a psyker. What could go wrong? You were right that it was a brief appearance. Im also likely the only one who thinks Mourn-it-all is a deamon blade. Therefore the only one who gives a whoo. On the positive side he is in good company with the Saint. And his religion is to "not give up hope". Maybe he can dodge this one. He has been through plenty tough situations...

Edited April 27, 2022 by Lord Lorne Walkier

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's...just a big sword.

 

There's literally nothing to suggest that it's a daemon weapon or chaos-corrupted.

[Moonreaper666]

Does Chris Wraight believe that if a weapon is used to commit enough horrible deeds it becomes curse or something?

 

Reminds me of the Japanese sword spirits

 

Considering how much time Mourn-it-all has spent in the Vengeful Spirit and in close proximity to various corrupt Legions it could be possible

 

Daemons can be created through thoughts. Maybe Aximamd accidentally created one within his sword

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

It's...just a big sword.

 

There's literally nothing to suggest that it's a daemon weapon or chaos-corrupted.

It was just a big, (Cthonian bluesteeel), sword. Then it got damaged in a fight with a White scar Borrowed Medusan blade. The same duel when lil Horus got his face sliced off.

 

(More to come)

 

In the book Vengeful Spirit. PG 81-87, there is a scene with lil and big Horus. It starts as a report about the state of the war. It takes place in Horus's private chambers. The place is littered with books and pages. Aximand notes some are written in Colchisian cuneiform. Aka deamon script. This is very close to right after Horus gets leveled up with chaos. He just also survived an 10th Legion assassination attempt that severely injured him. The only thing of interest that happens in all the scene is Horus returns Mourn-it-all to Aximand. Other then some adepts working to repair Warmaster's battle plate, they are alone except for the presence of the Red Angel. Aximand mistakes the low lighting. Thinking it was the leftover after glow of the forge. Turns out the light comes from the deamon possessed Blood Angel apothecary. I make note of his inclusion because he dose nothing other than given off light. Says nothing. Dose not move. His daemon light exposes some fresh etchings In the fuller. The Red Angel's presence, on the surface seems to be a coincidence. Nothing to see herer. Move along. Just some deamonic window dressing/ evil moonlighting. What else should you expect for wine time with the Warmaster? Horus gives Aximand his sword back. He tells his son he needs him and the sword in the battle to come.

 

Aximand felt lethal potency within the blade that had nothing to do with its powered edges.

Aximand is ashamed cause he wanted to restore the blade. Horus says he was happy to do it.

 

Potency that had nothing to do with its powered edges... Now I know im drunk on the Loken-aid but this screams chaos sword to me. What's the reason the Red Angel is there? Horus has nothing better to do with his time? He has a rebellion to run, no? The first couple times I read this I missed it. It was not until Loken took Aximand's head off with Rubio's force glaudius that I looked deeper. Maybe I looked too deep...

 

If that was all,.... But there is more.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Lord Lorne Walkier

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea there's some implication in vengeful spirit. And then it's never mentioned again. Not by the word bearers or malogurst in Slaves to Darkness as a way to get an angle on aximand. Not by Sigismund in Solar War when they duel. Not by land or loken in Saturnine when they're at sword point. And not by loken when he uses it in Warhawk.

 

Whatever McNeil might have wanted to do in vengeful spirit, they obviously didn't care about. They already had to do damage control with mortarion, but aximand just didn't matter enough to acknowledge. They can just pretend it's a metaphor for aximand being whole-heartedly committed to the warmaster after his face gets reattached and his sword gets fixed. That surety of purpose is the potency, and explains the transition from unsure aximand at the end of galaxy on flames to the Lord of traitors we see in Solar War.

[DarkChaplain]

And let's not forget that the Red Angel too became irrelevant, slipping through the cracks entirely during the Siege. Maybe ADB brings him back to chat with Sanguinius, but at this rate, there's been no buildup to it. He was a big part of one of the most iconic artworks of the Heresy - center stage, even - but then nobody bothered to give him a job after Vengeful Spirit, iirc.

 

So much setup all around, in particularly by McNeill, that was never again used. Heck, some he even forgot about himself, like Magnus having plans for Sharrowkyn. He wrote a novella about each of them - and in the afterword of Sons of the Selenar he admits he didn't think of the whole thing anymore. Lucius is stranded somewhere, not even at Terra. Yasu Nagasena is... probably somewhere? Even Alivia Sureka, who he obviously had something planned for since Vengeful Spirit, ended up with a rather more backup dancer job in Fury of Magnus, which only served to make the twist work, but didn't actually have a narrative reason to truly be involved or have a change of heart (or two) in there. He set up Tybalt Marr pretty well in an audio drama, but then that character got squandered in the Siege, being just another name to tick off the list, a sacrifice to make the SoH losses look suitably big.

 

There's so incredibly much that hit the cutting room floor at this point, it sours me on the Siege as a project. There was too much buildup that will never get a payoff - or worse, had their potential thrown so far down the shredder, you cannot even fill in the missing pieces via shorts or novellas after the fact, because it'd develop said characters and plot points past where they are in the Siege, and end up causing conflicts.

 

...and a reminder that apparently everybody forgot that Garro still had beef with Mortarion, and in the final book before the Siege, made sure the reader knew he was going to get his dues. Instead, he just killed a few Sons of Horus and vanished. It smells of bad communication and coordination.

[Sothalor]

Oh yeah, the Red Angel was a thing. I'd entirely forgotten that at this point in the Siege.

[Moonreaper666]

What are the chances Garro goes to the Vengeful Spirit or protects Malcador on the Throne?

 

I wonder if he will die just like Camba Diaz except Daemons do him in

[darkhorse0607]

I think it's more likely that, like with so many characters with arcs built up during the Heresy series, they just drop him for Loken or the Perpetuals. Or any other number of side plots they've started during the Siege series instead of paying off the work done in the mainline series

[nagashnee]

 

 

There's so incredibly much that hit the cutting room floor at this point, it sours me on the Siege as a project. There was too much buildup that will never get a payoff - or worse, had their potential thrown so far down the shredder, you cannot even fill in the missing pieces via shorts or novellas after the fact, because it'd develop said characters and plot points past where they are in the Siege, and end up causing conflicts.

 

...and a reminder that apparently everybody forgot that Garro still had beef with Mortarion, and in the final book before the Siege, made sure the reader knew he was going to get his dues. Instead, he just killed a few Sons of Horus and vanished. It smells of bad communication and coordination.

They never had a plan, never made a plan, and meeting up for coffee and posting it on Facebook once every 12 months makes for a nice post but not much else. If anything i am surprised they only forgot as much as they did.