East China Open

[Morticon]

Thanks guys. Just arrived in SH.

 

I'll try keep you all posted.

[Tokugawa]

Round 1 opponent of Morticon is a chaos soup list, which me fink not well optimized(Belakor model with classic rules? what's that for?). I wish and bet him will win.

[Morticon]

He completely destroyed me.....74-39

 

Nearly tabled. Bad bad Tactical play on my side, and unfortunately I didn't know that I can still attack first vs Slaanesh if I charge with a unit. I thought they always fought first. He got super lucky having the KoS survive the counter from BladeGuard with full rerolls and assault doc and the terms....very bleak.

 

Would have been a tough game nevertheless. But it's submarine time now.

 

Sadly Tim also lost his BA game vs Harlies

I was heavily dominated on primaries

[Morticon]

Vs Space Wolves next

[Morticon]

I'm putting up a shocking showing here guys.

 

Worst Tourney performance in yeaaaaaars.

 

Just got obliterated by a really smart, very cool SW list that was played exceptionally well

[Majkhel]

Sorry to hear Mort!
But - take a few deep breaths, perhaps make a few laps around the building and try getting your head cool!
We learn the most from our mistakes 

[Morticon]

95-81 to BA vs IH.

Tim (Shaezus) is on 2-1! Really doing well.

[Leonaides]

Pulling it back. Remember if it was easy everyone would want to play BA.

[Morticon]

2-2 now.

 

Beat RG in a great game. Low scoring though. So top 5 spots well out of reach.

[Morticon]

SOoooo..

LOL. 

 

 

Worst tournament performance in about 10 years I think. 

 

Played vs Demons (who played in the finals vs DG narrowly losing out 82-79) in game 1. 

Space Wolves Successors (with a BRILLIANT set of combos - these guys were unreal - and put out a number of attacks that put BA to shame) game 2.

Iron Hands Game 3

Raven Guard Game 4

and Sisters Game 5. 

 

I went second in the first 3 games. 

 

The sisters game was a combination of maybe the best and worst games I had.  Best in that I played what i thought was an excellent, strategic and smart game for the most part (though, there were still mistakes- as there were in all my games) But the list worked amazingly - it was everywhere.  Worst in that, the ability of the Miracle Dice system to really game the system is just frustrating.  He used combos that saw him getting a 4++ along with his 6+++ which just saw him mining points on account of having juuuuust enough guys each time to cap objectives and dominate, despite rarely leaving his board quarter. Great game, but as said- frustrating. 

 

 

My list...winners and losers....

 

 

The visage combo didnt work as well as I wanted.  Rites worked perfectly - but Visage didn't see use once. Largely because by game end it wasn't needed, and I couldnt send the Priest off any time sooner. I think this combo would be better suited to a character capable of tanking hits, so he can go in, smash stuff up and then survive to flip.

 

The WLT on the captain with the 4+ CP regen was swingy, but nevertheless very very good.  I will try figure how to keep it.  It just highlighted how good the Tallyman rule is, comparatively.

 

The captain himself was a poor choice.  I think i needed a tanky character instead.  I should have gone armour indom on a Shield Cap, rather than the Phobos cap. 

 

BIG takeaway is that I feel the best BA lists will have characters for Sacrifice strat. 

 

Bladeguard were amazing - the chunky squad of 6 were excellent, excellent, excellent - especially with the priest (and Master rerolls). 

 

Terminators were okay, and their 3W profile solid, but the meta choice for them didnt see play as i didnt come up against high RoF attacks.  They were always targeted by high S weapons. BIG plus was the Telehomer, though.  Cant help but think 6more BG or otherwise 7more VanVets would have been better. 

 

Incursors were excellent.  Best part of the list and helped my get WWSWF all the time except in the games i nearly got tabled (vs SW). These guys will remain a solid choice for me in the future. 

 

VanVets - great.  Want more. 

 

Attack Bikes- underwhelming- maybe because i use them as harassment and flanking units and as a result dont get FNP - but they died far, far too quickly.  

 

Vindy - not horrid, not great.  Workhorse- 1 more in the list would see their combined value rise exponentially.  However, this particular list would have seen MUCH more value from an Arcus than the vindy as i need to clear the backline for the GT and OWoF  strats. 

 

Scouts and Speeder - scored scramblers every single game.  The first turn drop for relentless and scram is amazing. I want to try fit two units of these in. 

 

I 

[keeblerartillery]

Thanks for the write up mort. Sorry things went poorly! I second your feelings on the priest - I always run one but never with anything more than selfless healer because of the lack of a native invuln. Might I suggest the primaris chappy on bike? The T5, 7W profile with a 14inch move is perfect for rites of war/visage combo. I prefer to run him as a buffer but he can at least tank with sacrifice if necessary.

[Xenith]

He completely destroyed me.....74-39

 

Nearly tabled. Bad bad Tactical play on my side, and unfortunately I didn't know that I can still attack first vs Slaanesh if I charge with a unit. I thought they always fought first. He got super lucky having the KoS survive the counter from BladeGuard with full rerolls and assault doc and the terms....very bleak.

 

Would have been a tough game nevertheless. But it's submarine time now.

 

Sadly Tim also lost his BA game vs Harlies

I was heavily dominated on primaries

 

Slaanesh daemons are tough. Yea, you alternate chargers and strike first units, but the player who's turn it is gets to pick the first unit to fight - it says it right there in the Slaanesh rules, and any player attending a seemingly hardcore tourney like this should know how their army works...so I'd say you were had. 

 

Otherwise, my first pick after my initial 1000pts if I'm doing another tourney is a whirlwind. Suppression fire just rips the teeth out of any strike first or threatening melee unit, it's just a shame the launcher generally won't do anything vs the targets you want to suppress. 

 

Did the SW army combine the +1 to hit with whirlwind of rage? As I said in the other thread, when my SG with +1 to hit attack with whirlwind, they perform at over 100%, getting more hits than they have attacks. Wolves would get 2x bonus hits on each 6, if they can get a +1 to hit from somewhere, it take their average effective hitroll to a 0+, where a WS3+ model with 6A will average 7 hits.  

Edited May 24, 2021 by Xenith

[Tokugawa]

Both SW doctrine and whirlwind need Unmodified 6.

[Morticon]

 

He completely destroyed me.....74-39

 

Nearly tabled. Bad bad Tactical play on my side, and unfortunately I didn't know that I can still attack first vs Slaanesh if I charge with a unit. I thought they always fought first. He got super lucky having the KoS survive the counter from BladeGuard with full rerolls and assault doc and the terms....very bleak.

 

Would have been a tough game nevertheless. But it's submarine time now.

 

Sadly Tim also lost his BA game vs Harlies

I was heavily dominated on primaries

 

Slaanesh daemons are tough. Yea, you alternate chargers and strike first units, but the player who's turn it is gets to pick the first unit to fight - it says it right there in the Slaanesh rules, and any player attending a seemingly hardcore tourney like this should know how their army works...so I'd say you were had. 

 

Otherwise, my first pick after my initial 1000pts if I'm doing another tourney is a whirlwind. Suppression fire just rips the teeth out of any strike first or threatening melee unit, it's just a shame the launcher generally won't do anything vs the targets you want to suppress. 

 

Did the SW army combine the +1 to hit with whirlwind of rage? As I said in the other thread, when my SG with +1 to hit attack with whirlwind, they perform at over 100%, getting more hits than they have attacks. Wolves would get 2x bonus hits on each 6, if they can get a +1 to hit from somewhere, it take their average effective hitroll to a 0+, where a WS3+ model with 6A will average 7 hits.  

 

 

 

Yup yup.  The SW player and rules were AMAZING. 

 

2+ to hit on the charge, and from turn 3, 6s were two additional hits.  It was unreal. 

[Morticon]

Im hoping Shazeus will chip in and tell us about his success. He placed a bit higher than me with 3 wins and 2 losses and had a 100point win, too.

 

We had some similar aspects in our lists and he used Reivers to great success! 

[jpwyrm]

2-2 now.

 

Beat RG in a great game. Low scoring though. So top 5 spots well out of reach.

 

Hi Morticon. Just wanted to drop by and say thanks for puting the time to write your feedback on the tournament for you and your pal. Sorry it didn't go as well as you hoped for. I was very curious about that Raven Guard list you faced off against, could you share it and explain how it worked? From what I'm seeing, your meta is quite different than what we usually see/hear/read and it's always nice to have new infos to ponder.

 

Cheers!

[Morticon]

 

2-2 now.

 

Beat RG in a great game. Low scoring though. So top 5 spots well out of reach.

 

Hi Morticon. Just wanted to drop by and say thanks for puting the time to write your feedback on the tournament for you and your pal. Sorry it didn't go as well as you hoped for. I was very curious about that Raven Guard list you faced off against, could you share it and explain how it worked? From what I'm seeing, your meta is quite different than what we usually see/hear/read and it's always nice to have new infos to ponder.

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

Heya bud.  Just so you know, I was pretty much on the bottom tables for most of the tournament! The meta was super diverse. 

 

Top spots were:

 

DG

Death Watch

Necrons

Chaos Demons

Admech/SW

DG

Necrons

Orks

Drukhari

Sisters

BA (not mine)

 

In terms of the RG list -it was a pretty standard RG/Marine list to be perfectly honest.  No big tricks or gimmicks beyond what RG has to offer.  Not a weak list by any stretch, but nothing particularly "different" or unique or new to play. 

 

 

Chaplain on Bike

Captain on Bike

 

1x10 Incursors

2x 5 Assault Inters

 

1x10 VanVets

1x5 Vanvets

1x4 (or5) Bladeguard

Apoth with Ambush

 

3x Attack BIkes- MM

5x PlasmaCeptors

 

1x Whirlwind

4x Erads (MM)

 

Very standard stuff.  Depoyment shenanigans allows them to move their units around at will - Ambush allows the BG and the Apoth up to midboard bullying. 

Erads deepstrike, Plasmas Deepstrike.  

VanVets take point and choppy chop. 

[Xenith]

Both SW doctrine and whirlwind need Unmodified 6.

 

Indeed, however statistically, +1 hit on a 6 is the same as +1 to hit, they both give the same number of hits over a normal distribution of dice rolls. +2 hits on a 6 is essentially +2 to hit, statistically. When you have models pumping out a bunch of attacks, say like outriders on the charge, you can expect 7 hits per model, 5 normal rolls of 1 through 6, and then 2 bonus. 

 

This is why I feel whirlwind or even +1 to hit is way superior to +1 to wound. Statistically, they're all the same unless you either already hit on a 2+ (characters) or wound on a 2+ (usually fists). +1 to hit with a fist is the same as +1 to wound with a fist, however the +1 to hit lets you get more hits and therefore more potential total damage overall. 

[Rhavien]

Ouch Morticon. Seems you had a rough time at the tourney. Better luck next time. But it seems your core plan was solid but it wasn't your weekend. Edited May 25, 2021 by Rhavien

[Morticon]

Ouch Morticon. Seems you had a rough time at the tourney. Better luck next time. But it seems your core plan was solid but it wasn't your weekend.

 

Thanks bud.  The army really worked well and how it should, to be honest. Was great fun to play it. 

 

I was caught off guard Game 1. 

I was outplayed Game 2, 

And I was out-dexed Game 5. (Miracle Dice are now near the top of my personal Hate List. 

[Morticon]

The Game 5 assessment may have been a little defeatist!  I could have played better, but the way the odds can be stacked with sisters mean that you never have to worry about things not going right for you.  It's the perfect army for  skilled players that are good with micro tactical decisions - which units charge when, which units or models need to survive, or die...etc. 

 

That aspect was super frustrating - that being said, i still could have played better.  

[Hintzy]

Hey Mort, really appreciated your insight into a more clever BA list. I'm especially intrigued by the more troop heavy approach for the sake of WWSWF. Assuming the new missions don't change that much, it looks like you intend to keep pursuing that approach.

 

Are you considering a third big troop squad to make all three WWSWF units troops and free up your heavier hitters? Of course more combat squadded Phobos troops would open up more options for Domination, Engage, Scramblers, Relentless Assault, etc. At the cost of 'killiness' of course.

 

Additionally, were you to add more Phobos troops, at what point does a Phobos Librarian and/or Lord of Deceit become worth it for even more movement/deployment shenanigans over the more obvious power related options?

Edited May 28, 2021 by Hintzy

[Morticon]

Heya buddy. Thanks for the questions. They're really appreciated. I think they offer a springboard to greara conversation.

 

Generally speaking, as said, I scored quite a good average on WWSWF- 11 points average over the tourney.

 

The issue I found was that even though I saved these untis, I had either sacrificed the other half too early, or required the other half (back field) to stay backfield. This meant that 105 points of obsec were out of the game and wasting their phobos goodness.

 

The few times that GT was used and a full squad of Incursors hit the enemy it was amazing, and the opponents were always caught off guard by either the volume of attacks or the AP2.

 

The other issue I found was that the enemy backline was too difficult to get into. If I play competitive BA again, I will definitely design around Phobos, GT and Relentless Assault, but will make damn sure I have two Arcus Sicarans to help clear the backline for me.

 

To your question about the Libby, Shaezus used him to fair effect I believe. The use of Lord of Deceit is a little limited as models starting the game off board can't be kept off until late game and the redeploy is before the first turn roll.

 

It can help to fake out the enemy a little, so there is that.

 

I'd like to playtest a few more options moving forward.

 

I'd like to try 3 five man squads of phobos for center and backfield play, 2 Arcus, and a combat squadded BG squad doing the backfield claiming.

 

Maybe DC and Scout Storm combo for early RA points.

 

The BG wind up having the same point investment, but are tougher to move and useful in a pinch

[jpwyrm]

Somehow I can't get over the fact that you and Shaezus are making phobos work as a competitive list, that's amazing! Any chance to get a look at his list? I've been scratching my head to see how I can integrate your Incursors and WWSWF principle to my list. I'm curious to see what his list looks like and how different it works compare to yours.

[Morticon]

Ive nudged him to come on and give a report! He'll get on it this weekend :)

 

There were a lot of similar elements, because we were brain storming, but he was more prepared for the meta I feel, and made things work for him.also, a big big step away from his golden host lists that he normally runs