East China Open

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Phobos offers lots of tactical options for the tabletop general.

[BrotherAetherick]

Big nerf to While we stand we fight in the upcoming CA. Losing half a combat squad only gets you 3 points instead of the full 5, according to leaks.

Edited May 29, 2021 by BrotherAetherick

[Morticon]

I'm okay with that. Scramblers sees 2 more points easily done.

[Shaezus]

Hey folks. Sharing my list here, thanks for the interest!

 

 

chief librarian. combimelta. force sword. jump pack. tome of malcador. smite. wings of sanguinius. blood boil. unleash rage. null zone

 

phobos librarian. rites if war. visage of death. smite. temporal corridor. shrouding.

 

phobos lieutenant. master of the vanguard. icon of the angel

 

infiltrators. helix.

infiltrators. helix

incursors

 

redemptor dread

redemptor dread

5 x death company. jump packs. pistol and chainsword

5 x reivers. pistols. sgt. carbine. grav chutes

5 x scouts. pistols and knives. sgt. combimelta

company champion

 

ATV multimelta

ATV multimelta

 

vindicator laser destroyer

vindicator laser destroyer

 

land speeder storm

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I'm okay with that. Scramblers sees 2 more points easily done.

Scramblers is fairly easy for SM in general - especially if you have some Phobos units.

[Morticon]

Hey folks. Sharing my list here, thanks for the interest!

 

 

chief librarian. combimelta. force sword. jump pack. tome of malcador. smite. wings of sanguinius. blood boil. unleash rage. null zone

 

phobos librarian. rites if war. visage of death. smite. temporal corridor. shrouding.

 

phobos lieutenant. master of the vanguard. icon of the angel

 

infiltrators. helix.

infiltrators. helix

incursors

 

redemptor dread

redemptor dread

5 x death company. jump packs. pistol and chainsword

5 x reivers. pistols. sgt. carbine. grav chutes

5 x scouts. pistols and knives. sgt. combimelta

company champion

 

ATV multimelta

ATV multimelta

 

vindicator laser destroyer

vindicator laser destroyer

 

land speeder storm

 

 

I really hope Tim gets the time to unpack this - cause it was crafty as!!! 

 

He was using the libby as what he called an assassin Libby. 

 

The Melta gun along with the MW powers (coupled with the JP and Wings) allowed him to position well next to characters and take out key units for the BA charges. 

With our unique strat, we can cast 3 powers, meaning if you need one extra power to get closer (with Wings) you can do so. Then drop smite and blood boil. 

 

The Reivers, I heard, also worked wonders. 

 

There were a few options available for them. Either they could deploy via grav, or...and here's where they have something cool..

 

With the use of GT, you could have them deploy on board, and then in later turns (2+) you can drop "Terror Troops" strat in your command phase, then, in your movement phase, drop GT - and then in the same turn bring them on from the edges.  Couple this with the striking in Phobos Lieut with Master of the Vanguard and Icon of the Angel and you had a nifty 7" rerollable charge from a fair unit putting out 26 AP1 attacks and turning off ObSec.  My understanding is that Tim used this to great success.  

Its a really nifty combo and actually gives Rievers a role in the army. 

 

My understanding is also that the double Vindy worked wonders.  Whlie one is far, far too swingy, the damage output of two, and the resilience of them is such that they could deal with hefty targets from range, and sit back on home plate without too much concern.  This was, of course, then saturated with the threats of the dreads.  

 

Scouts for cheap Scram and either EoAF or RA -and DC for easy first turn RA.

 

All in all, super tight!   

Forgot to mention the usefulness of the very cheap 6" HI Champ - which is a great unit for Angels Sacrifice - I honestly believe this is a mechanic and strat we should work into our builds to be competitive with our dex

[Shaezus]

You've summed it up well there, Brin. One thing I really want to emphasise is the value of the DC; even if you go second, forlorn fury can put them in a safe position for jumping into the oppponents DZ on turn 1. In every game but one, they charged a softened target or something they could kill, then consolidated into a vehicle or shooty unit thus tying it up, blocking movement and generally interfering with plans. The one game I deployed them and used them stupidly was game 4 vs admech - space wolves. If I'd used them as I should have, tying up one of his skorpius disintegrators, it would have changed the game.

 

The two games I lost were both hold 2 / hold 3 missions. Game 1 vs Harlies was my nightmare matchup under maximum nightmare conditions. All midfield objectives and I went first. I'll say no more there. Adam was such a gent about it, he got my vote for most sporting. But his haywire cannon rolls were super hot so he had no problem shifting my obsec off the objectives whilst also removing the threat the redemptors posed.

 

To rub it further, the phobos lieutenant pulled off a crucial charge against his troupe master on his home DZ, but with some fruity armour saves the master survived with... yes... one wound and thus held that objective. Meanwhile the scouts failed their rerolled charge from outflank. The Harlies strat for falling back and advancing turned the game completely. By turn two he was sitting on my home objective and so I lost hugely on primaries and data retrieval secondary. My first game ever against Harlies.

 

The reivers were hot and cold; turned two games using the terror troops - guerilla tactics combo, but otherwise failed their charges or were needed to counter assault in my own DZ

 

Game 4 was my worst tournament game ever. Firmly in sunday morning mode and not at all in competition mode.

 

My take aways from the event, in addition to the above:

- charging from deep strike is unreliable and less damaging than it was in 8th. Points can be more effectively spent elsewhere

- psykers ditto. The librarian assassin worked great in two games. In the others he either whiffed or was denied. The phobos libby was ineffective for the whole tournament barring game 1 where he gained 5VP. When psychic powers fail, it's like paying points for something that helps the opponent

- the two vindies are a solid competitive choice. Killed two plague burst crawlers in three turns vs DG and were consistent throughout. Reliable workhorses and relatively unknown, which leads opponents to underestimate their damage output

- redemptors fit the doctrine shift perfectly. Superb fire support turn one and two, capable of holding midfield and brutally effective for taking the assault to the opponent's zone.

- I won two games at 100 points and one game at 95 points. BA can do stuff, but I'm looking at successor traits. Charging bonus isn't used too much and the whole idea of a separate roll before being able to roll for attacks is a weakness competitively, as shown in the table 1 finale. 20 bloodletters failing a 3D6 rerollable 8" meant 4th place for chaos daemons instead of 1st place if they had made the charge

Edited May 31, 2021 by Shaezus

[jpwyrm]

Thanks for the input. Again, this is a very unusual list, both in general but for Blood Angels as well. It looks like the heavy lifting is done more through shooting (Vindi and Redemptors) than though Close Combat like we usually see in other BA lists. Definitely a finesse list though!

 

How did the ATV worked out for you? I guess since you don't have any captains/chapter master or lt, the fact they are not Core is probably less of a hindrance and you probably chose them over Attack Bikes for their resilience.

 

If you are going for successors tactics, what would be your choice moving forward? If you are not capitalizing on the BA CT, is it even worth playing BA or would you be better served by another set of Chapter Tactics and strats?

[Shaezus]

It's funny, that's exactly what the 4th round opponent said about it not being a typical BA list. Whilst prepping lists before the tournament I was in the same place as Mort in terms of seriously needing reliable long range anti - tank. We both thought the las vindy was the best choice, only I was lucky enough to have two already. I'd already been practising with two redemptors in the build up, so once you add the points for those and a few things to go for relentless assault or linebreaker, there isn't room for any of the usual bladeguard or sanguard. I went for DC over vanvets mostly because of forlorn fury

 

Man, the ATVs are superb! I had two in the list that won the previous Shanghai tournament and again they're something people seem to underestimate.You're right about me going for them because of their resilience, but their golden value is in being able to tuck into midfield cover then make a turn two charge and tie up shooty stuff that threatens my dreads or obsec. Between their melta and bolt shots they also make a good contribution to killing anything. Great unit

 

I really can't and don't want to play anything but BA. Weird huh? lol! With a list tweaked towards WWSWF with full heavy intercessors and two BGV squads in impulsors, I'm looking at master artisans and either whirlwind of rage or the one for 5+++ vs mortal wounds. More bang with the vindies and something that will be used every turn for almost every unit, rather than something that will only be used a few times in the whole game

[jpwyrm]

Oh right! You're going 180 from Phobos to Gravis, sneaky to tanky! Less my cup of thea personnally, but a nice idea. Though, I have a feeling it could work, especially if you keep the Heavy Intercessors as a single squad beside a Sanguinary Priest. 

 

Really cool about the ATV - with their high wound count, they must be quite good at eating overwatch  if need be then tying up important shooty target. Smart play, I'll be adding this to my book of tricks 

[Xenith]

My take aways from the event, in addition to the above:

- charging from deep strike is unreliable and less damaging than it was in 8th. Points can be more effectively spent elsewhere

- psykers ditto. The librarian assassin worked great in two games. In the others he either whiffed or was denied. The phobos libby was ineffective for the whole tournament barring game 1 where he gained 5VP. When psychic powers fail, it's like paying points for something that helps the opponent

 

My thoughts on Librarians are here. The cliff notes version is that you cannot Deny a Powerfist. Characters are such a trap this edition that unless they're built for something specific, it seems better to just bring more of the unit you want to buff.

 

Using the libby to negate 4++ saves? The end result is you get 100% more wounds through, which is the same result as having 100% more attacks. 

 

Surprised at the ATV's they did ok? I'd have used one unit of 2 + Transhuman + Fall back and shoot strat. 

 

What do you reckon to a Sicaran Venator in place of a Laser destroyer vindi? Similar niche, but a little cheaper I think?

[YogiDaAngel]

...

What do you reckon to a Sicaran Venator in place of a Laser destroyer vindi? Similar niche, but a little cheaper I think?

 

Sicaran is 10 pts more bare bones + 1 cp tax. Vindi are kind of briliant with their stats but man FW resin is expensive. 

 

Mort and Shaezu I want to thank you for great lists to think of, since I read this threat I'm constantly tweaking my lists with new ideas which were considered by me not so BA.

Great work guys !!!

[Morticon]

Venator has more wounds and a 2+, but no T8 which is golden.  Also, it needs to stay still to get the flat 6 damage-  which is why i didnt wind up using mine! 

[Shaezus]

 

 

My take aways from the event, in addition to the above:

- charging from deep strike is unreliable and less damaging than it was in 8th. Points can be more effectively spent elsewhere

- psykers ditto. The librarian assassin worked great in two games. In the others he either whiffed or was denied. The phobos libby was ineffective for the whole tournament barring game 1 where he gained 5VP. When psychic powers fail, it's like paying points for something that helps the opponent

My thoughts on Librarians are here. The cliff notes version is that you cannot Deny a Powerfist. Characters are such a trap this edition that unless they're built for something specific, it seems better to just bring more of the unit you want to buff.

 

Using the libby to negate 4++ saves? The end result is you get 100% more wounds through, which is the same result as having 100% more attacks.

 

Surprised at the ATV's they did ok? I'd have used one unit of 2 + Transhuman + Fall back and shoot strat.

 

What do you reckon to a Sicaran Venator in place of a Laser destroyer vindi? Similar niche, but a little cheaper I think?

Characters are in a weird place now. Beatsticks aren't so beaty as before and support characters too are less efficient when you can spend points on more bodies elsewhere to do the same thing if not better.

 

The sweet spot for psykers is their mortal wound attacks ignore invuls and character protection. In a meta dominated by death guard, particularly multiple death shroud, and things like drukhari with rerollable 2++, I've found the librarian assassin to be the key. So long as their casts are successful and not denied...

 

Splitting ATVs into units of 1 worked perfectly with this list for maxing out on relentless assault and simultaneously causing problems in the opponent's backfield with their movement.

 

I'd echo the thoughts above about the venator vs las vindy. Besides, no sense in trying to fix the part of my list that performs its role just fine