GW and pricing, there's a problem.

[Wulf Vengis]

Ok so I'll finally drop a line here after reading along quietly.

 

I don't like the pricing system GW uses (never have). In its current incarnation it comes off as borderline (if not completely) predatory; based on a semi-actual, partly constant sales pitch of FOMO and false limited editions. But that's not what I'm going to focus on.

 

I was introduced at the age of 14 or 15 in 3rd edition, just after release. The buy in then was expensive but my dad got me the starter since i had friends who played. I then had to buy the codecies and any further kits i needed. GWs products were too expensive and confusing for the people around my life to bother with. Heck i couldn't even get other friends to play because the buy in cost was So high that even my "cash handy" friend refused to acknowledge the game until the price was more affordable.

 

So as a poor teen I rarely expanded my 40k collection beyond the odd purchase here and there. I quickly discovered the eBay market and learned to save but it was still painfully expensive. However some of those hold out friends finally got involved when they could purchase an entire Tyranid army for about 100$ usd secondhand, plus an additional 300$ usd for a heirophant. This was around 2008 or 2010.

 

Then our group was finally big enough. We had gone from 2-3 players for years and seemingly overnight exploded into 7-9 players. This was a good time, we got in games at least once a week and with the release of 5th we were all pretty stoked and even went to Adepticon together and competed in the team tourneys. Everyone was buying what they needed when they needed it from whichever market worked best for themselves.

 

Then a price-hike occurred. Most of those players dropped the hobby like a cheating spouse and instantly sold off their stuff and never looked back. The group dissolved. One of us remained in the hobby fully active and i remained collecting and occasionally building/painting.

 

Then in 2020 till current i definitely spent more money on the hobby than ever before. I still only bought from third party sellers but i spent a ridiculous amount over the last year and here's the point I'm making:

 

GW knows their prices are so high that many people are priced out (at least partially). Much like the astartes, GW plants the seeds in the brains of adolescent teens. There it will grow and like the seeds of heresy corrupt those brains so that in the years to come an eventual return to 40k will happen.

 

How many of us started out as teens but didn't take a full or big plunge into the hobby until we were older? That's they're goal right there, get them interested young so that when they can spend on the hobby they will.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Wulf Vengis

[Lord Marshal]

I think the new DKOK suggests why the 'upgraded' Cadians are £29.50. It's so that the new DKOK can be £32.50 or even £35 and seem like reasonable value because it's new. 

 

Got to hand it to GW, just as I escape to the edge of the web I'm lured back in. 

 

The Lumineth spearmen and archers are £36.50 for 10. If the Krieg box is any less than £35 I will be genuinely shocked, especially after the ludicrous pricing of the upgraded Cadian kit.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Lord Marshal

[Robbienw]

Ok so I'll finally drop a line here after reading along quietly.

 

I don't like the pricing system GW uses (never have). In its current incarnation it comes off as borderline (if not completely) predatory; based on a semi-actual, partly constant sales pitch of FOMO and false limited editions.

That’s not predatory pricing. It is a different thing to what you describe.

[Wulf Vengis]

 

Ok so I'll finally drop a line here after reading along quietly.

 

I don't like the pricing system GW uses (never have). In its current incarnation it comes off as borderline (if not completely) predatory; based on a semi-actual, partly constant sales pitch of FOMO and false limited editions.

That’s not predatory pricing. It is a different thing to what you describe.

You are correct. I was misusing the term "predatory pricing" through a lack of not knowing the definition. I recognize my failing and will be sure to correct it.

 

I guess i meant to imply that GW knowingly prices out customers with exaggerated prices.

[Schurge]

By and large I am still fine with 40k prices outside of Forgeworld, they are reaching their limit however. I'd pay anywhere up to $60 for a squad of five infantry with GW's level of quality. I wouldn't pay $65. It is just a coincidence that Heavy Intercessors happen to cost my limit. Since I started in Warhammer there have been many price increases and they've never really bothered me.

 

Now where GW has crossed the line for me is some of the Age of Sigmar line and basically the entirety of Forgeworld. I'm not paying $140 for a Bloodthirster. I'm not paying $195 for a Mega Gargant. I'm not paying $100 for Varanguard and I'm not paying $165 for Archaeon. Now I would love to buy all those models. Hell you knock $40 off of the Varanguard and $60 off of Archaeon and I'd buy 2000 points of them right now. You lower the price of a Mega Gargant to $90 and I would buy it instead of the $40 Mantic giant next week for my Flesh Eater Courts. I will gladly pay more for quality or aesthetics but even that has its limit.

 

EDIT: Edited first paragraph for tone.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Schurge

[Karhedron]

It doesn’t have to be sustainable in terms of forever. They’ve just got to push it right to the brink before sales collapse and then hold it there forever. The tell tale for them will be when they release a new Primaris kit at a higher price point and it doesn’t sell well at all. They’ll then reign it back slightly for the next kit and hold prices at that level.

There have been a few instances of this happening. The Blood of the Phoenix box set did not sell well due to fairly high price but also due to them trying to shift a bunch of 20+ year old models along with the shiny new stuff. Subsequent dual faction boxes have been significantly better value.

 

Heavy Intercessors clocking in at virtually £40 for a 5-man Troop unit may represent a similar ceiling for infantry for the next couple of years. Having said that, Heavy Intercessors are both nice models and have very good rules which may help push the ceiling higher.

 

The thing to remember is that GW have decades of experience at pushing the price envelope to make sure they just sell all their production output at the best price. I am sure they carefully analyse their sales data and have a better idea than we do about the limits of price elasticity.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Looking at getting into orks, and kitbashing ork kits with DE vehicles, and I'm honestly ok with the idea of buying a venom and a trukk.

So it just seems like imperial kits are the biggest problems in this regard.

[jarms48]

 

I think the new DKOK suggests why the 'upgraded' Cadians are £29.50. It's so that the new DKOK can be £32.50 or even £35 and seem like reasonable value because it's new. 

 

Got to hand it to GW, just as I escape to the edge of the web I'm lured back in. 

 

The Lumineth spearmen and archers are £36.50 for 10. If the Krieg box is any less than £35 I will be genuinely shocked, especially after the ludicrous pricing of the upgraded Cadian kit.

 

 

I don't know what the price would be in pounds, but here in Australia the Cadian box is $77. I can imagine those Krieg models being $110, the same price as the new Gaunts Ghosts, maybe slightly cheaper because there's always a "character tax". So probably anywhere from $95 - 105.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Nvm Edited July 16, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Silas7]

By and large I am still fine with 40k prices outside of Forgeworld, they are reaching their limit however. I'd pay anywhere up to $60 for a squad of five infantry with GW's level of quality. I wouldn't pay $65. It is just a coincidence that Heavy Intercessors happen to cost my limit. Since I started in Warhammer there have been many price increases and they've never really bothered me.

 

Now where GW has crossed the line for me is some of the Age of Sigmar line and basically the entirety of Forgeworld. I'm not paying $140 for a Bloodthirster. I'm not paying $195 for a Mega Gargant. I'm not paying $100 for Varanguard and I'm not paying $165 for Archaeon. Now I would love to buy all those models. Hell you knock $40 off of the Varanguard and $60 off of Archaeon and I'd buy 2000 points of them right now. You lower the price of a Mega Gargant to $90 and I would buy it instead of the $40 Mantic giant next week for my Flesh Eater Courts. I will gladly pay more for quality or aesthetics but even that has its limit.

 

EDIT: Edited first paragraph for tone.

Schurge, all i can say is that I disagree with your sentiments on what is acceptable pricing and find it funny that you also bring to light that AOS models have crossed a price point you don't like. Others have long since reached this point much sooner than you in both systems.

 

Then they came for me.....

[Uprising]

I never understood this part of the hobby or lack of: money management.  Bit of a background, I been buying and reselling miniatures for 14 years (My hobby is 100% free because of this), run two business, and help clients with personal finances / budgeting. 

 

I get it everyone, we buy plastic toy soldiers for the major company of the market space as our hobby.  But why does anyone buy directly from GW and forgeworld?  Second hand market even for NIB is on average 25% and more off.  If you go to the recast market you get 33% on average off.  I seen friends in the hobby literally spend their whole paycheck on miniatures, only two weeks later selling them on average for 50% (Yes I usually buy them and resell for 25% gains) to pay the bills. Times are rough, why spend more for the same product?  I just do not get it. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Uprising

[Redcomet]

I never understood this part of the hobby or lack of: money management. Bit of a background, I been buying and reselling miniatures for 14 years (My hobby is 100% free because of this), run two business, and help clients with personal finances / budgeting.

 

I get it everyone, we buy plastic toy soldiers for the major company of the market space as our hobby. But why does anyone buy directly from GW and forgeworld? Second hand market even for NIB is on average 25% and more off. If you go to the recast market you get 33% on average off. I seen friends in the hobby literally spend their whole paycheck on miniatures, only two weeks later selling them on average for 50% (Yes I usually buy them and resell for 25% gains) to pay the bills. Times are rough, why spend more for the same product? I just do not get it.

Good for you that you have all your ducks in a row.

[BrandX]

Sounds like your friends have some terrible budgeting skills. Which is interesting considering your a financial adviser. I’ve been burned on Internet purchases before, so that could be why people don’t like shopping on the internet. I also like to support the local shop because that’s where I will play my games.

[Commisar Necros]

I think you stumbled straight into the point Uprising. The prices set by the main company are so high that it creates a massive secondary market just trying to keep the costs down, and the prices these competitors operate at show that a company can be successful there. Just calling it a budget issue is also pretty insulting to a lot of people who do manage their money and see themselves being priced out of the hobby they've enjoyed as GW rises prices way above inflation. It sounds like you need to take advantage of your own friends or other people having money troubles and selling their army  to keep the price as low as it is, which speaks to how expensive it is.

 

Supporting re-casters as an answer is also a huge problem as now your paying someone to essentially steal and resell GW IP giving them an excuse to raise the prices even further. 3d printing has made re-casters and 3rd party more of a threat to them commercially but they've just reacted by raising prices and take downs. Here in the US the music industry did the same to napster and long story short; album sales didn't go up but costs did, got a load of bad PR, and with the advent of internet streaming people used the new method that was cheaper to get what they wanted. GW is following this same path fighting new technology. You cant stop pirates entirely but you can disincentivize it to the point its not worth going around official channels.

 

Today's launch of the beast snaggas is also showing the problem. Create a shortage by hyping everything up and not making enough of an exclusive product, much of the launch goes to scalpers, prices rise higher for average players who now have to buy on the secondary market. This again incentivizes people to go to re-casters for the parts or pirate the rules(sticking a core rule book in a limited edition run is also ridiculous).

 

(edit for tone)

Edited July 17, 2021 by Commisar Necros

[LameBeard]

If I might channel Marie Kondo, the meaning of the purchase is partly defined by the when, and the how, and the where you purchased, not just the obtaining and retaining of the object.

[m_r_parker]

I never understood this part of the hobby or lack of: money management.  Bit of a background, I been buying and reselling miniatures for 14 years (My hobby is 100% free because of this), run two business, and help clients with personal finances / budgeting. 

 

I get it everyone, we buy plastic toy soldiers for the major company of the market space as our hobby.  But why does anyone buy directly from GW and forgeworld?  Second hand market even for NIB is on average 25% and more off.  If you go to the recast market you get 33% on average off.  I seen friends in the hobby literally spend their whole paycheck on miniatures, only two weeks later selling them on average for 50% (Yes I usually buy them and resell for 25% gains) to pay the bills. Times are rough, why spend more for the same product?  I just do not get it. 

 

I can only speak for myself, and I make the vast majority of my purchases from GW direct.

 

The main reason for me is my local GW store. I have a great relationship with the guys there, and have spent many a day there doing hobby (and occasionally gaming) without needing to spend a penny. Part of the reason why they're able to do that with the staff numbers that they have is sales, so I like to support them. Obviously Covid haas stopped that for the time being, but I can't wait for that to resume.

Secondly, I appreciate their customer services when you buy direct. Last time I needed it was when in a SC Tyranids I got a misplaced Trygon (2 of one sprue, none of another), went into my store and was just given a new boxed Trygon - best way to solve that situation in my eyes. Going online / remote I would probably have to pack it up to send back to the retailer, and wait for a replacement to come through. 

 

I have bought online from other businesses when I feel that the RRP is a little high for my palette, but it's probably only around 5% of my purchases. Occasionally I have bought from eBay, but I've been burned from buying what was listed as genuine FW for knock-offs. I don't want to support recasters who are looking to make a quick buck.

 

I don't see people buying product who then resell it later at a loss, but your experience is obviously different. Provided the stuff hasn't been opened then returning to GW would be a full refund, so it shouldn't be a problem. But proper budgeting is definitely a key skill that some people lack.

 

Ultimately how everyone wants to make their purchases is their own decision, with their own reasoning. I wouldn't go so far as to say that people are "doing it wrong" by buying with GW direct.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

I've been putting off reading this thread because as many have commented, this sort of discussion is trotted out like clockwork every few years if not more frequently. 

 

I basically agree that GW will do what they want, we as consumers have no sway of any kind in what they do and their sales numbers will rise and fall based on myriad factors outside of just pricing.

 

What I find less sympathetic in these discussions is the general sentiment of throwing back the frustration and anxiety people have about price increases as somehow within their control by "voting with their wallet"

 

I've never understood what that is supposed to mean, because an individual buying or not buying something is not voting in any meaningful way, and it frames things like somehow we as individuals can influence GW's pricing, which we can't.

 

Brother Tyler made a great post talking about the impractical reality of organizing a boycott about GW prices, and he's totally right.  But that also means that the concept of "voting with your wallet" in the absence of some sort of mass-organized effort is totally pointless. That's just a way of saying 'if you can't afford it, don't buy it' but dressed up as though there was some greater agency being exercised by the consumer in this case.

 

The reality is some folks just can't afford a hobby they would otherwise be doing except for price increases they have no control over.

 

Let's not act as if this was some matter of their own choice or preference or that they had any control over that outcome through "voting with their wallets", and just be honest and say, "Sorry you got priced out"

 

It's also valid to say that other cost factors like faster edition turnover, limited-editions and FOMO sales tactics are not to the benefit of anyone except maybe GW's stockholders and they should be called out for these tactics, even if you choose to buy their stuff. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I never understood this part of the hobby or lack of: money management. Bit of a background, I been buying and reselling miniatures for 14 years (My hobby is 100% free because of this), run two business, and help clients with personal finances / budgeting.

 

I get it everyone, we buy plastic toy soldiers for the major company of the market space as our hobby. But why does anyone buy directly from GW and forgeworld? Second hand market even for NIB is on average 25% and more off. If you go to the recast market you get 33% on average off. I seen friends in the hobby literally spend their whole paycheck on miniatures, only two weeks later selling them on average for 50% (Yes I usually buy them and resell for 25% gains) to pay the bills. Times are rough, why spend more for the same product? I just do not get it.

if no one buys from GW they fail, and they make nothing new...

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

GW sales are higher than ever, so SOMEBODY's buying, even if it's just resellers and big game stores. If we assume most people are being hit hard by the pandemic and that wages aren't rising as fast as inflation, it seems like the demographic for GW customers and hobbyists is simply shifting to a higher income bracket. 40K is literally becoming gentrified. I can still afford it, so it's a bit strange to me to see people say they "just got priced out" every time a new kit or price increases comes out, but I can understand it because not everyone can afford to spend a hundred to a few hundred every month on what are basically toys. Money is tight for many people.

 

An important lesson that people need to realize is that "voting with your wallet" and "people just won't buy at that price" simply aren't true. Notice how GW has never lowered their prices and yet their sales continue to increase. WotC and Magic: the Gathering had the same thing happen. More and more expensive products, but more and more sales. WotC made a VERY unpopular move that angered many, many players. But "voting with their wallet" didn't matter, because the product sold out INSTANTLY by all the scalpers, collectors, and non-players who liked the product. Voting with your wallet only helps if your boycott actually affects the company's profits.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

GW sales are higher than ever, so SOMEBODY's buying, even if it's just resellers and big game stores. If we assume most people are being hit hard by the pandemic and that wages aren't rising as fast as inflation, it seems like the demographic for GW customers and hobbyists is simply shifting to a higher income bracket. 40K is literally becoming gentrified. I can still afford it, so it's a bit strange to me to see people say they "just got priced out" every time a new kit or price increases comes out, but I can understand it because not everyone can afford to spend a hundred to a few hundred every month on what are basically toys. Money is tight for many people.

 

An important lesson that people need to realize is that "voting with your wallet" and "people just won't buy at that price" simply aren't true. Notice how GW has never lowered their prices and yet their sales continue to increase. WotC and Magic: the Gathering had the same thing happen. More and more expensive products, but more and more sales. WotC made a VERY unpopular move that angered many, many players. But "voting with their wallet" didn't matter, because the product sold out INSTANTLY by all the scalpers, collectors, and non-players who liked the product. Voting with your wallet only helps if your boycott actually affects the company's profits.

THANK YOU!  Voting with your wallet is not a real thing. 

[BrandX]

its a thing. its just not a thing that works. would probably work better if scalpers did not buy everything as you said. i imagine that they can wait to make a profit once people are willing to pay the price. or they just sell it in sections that seem cheaper. i myself am working off of a very low income though. is it not common to only make a purchase every few months after saving up?

[MegaVolt87]

 

GW sales are higher than ever, so SOMEBODY's buying, even if it's just resellers and big game stores. If we assume most people are being hit hard by the pandemic and that wages aren't rising as fast as inflation, it seems like the demographic for GW customers and hobbyists is simply shifting to a higher income bracket. 40K is literally becoming gentrified. I can still afford it, so it's a bit strange to me to see people say they "just got priced out" every time a new kit or price increases comes out, but I can understand it because not everyone can afford to spend a hundred to a few hundred every month on what are basically toys. Money is tight for many people.

 

An important lesson that people need to realize is that "voting with your wallet" and "people just won't buy at that price" simply aren't true. Notice how GW has never lowered their prices and yet their sales continue to increase. WotC and Magic: the Gathering had the same thing happen. More and more expensive products, but more and more sales. WotC made a VERY unpopular move that angered many, many players. But "voting with their wallet" didn't matter, because the product sold out INSTANTLY by all the scalpers, collectors, and non-players who liked the product. Voting with your wallet only helps if your boycott actually affects the company's profits.

 

THANK YOU! Voting with your wallet is not a real thing.

I don't think relying on scalpers, ameture investors and fresh players is a viable long term strategy. It's more than one person that can impact the company. Myself personally, recently I have turned away at least six other people from getting into anything GW with a frank assessment of the state of the games GW offers. I am literally voting with my wallet now because GW hasn't made anything up till now I want to even buy. Don't assume that the voting with your wallet people are ones that cannot afford it. Edited July 17, 2021 by MegaVolt87

[Arkhanist]

 

GW sales are higher than ever, so SOMEBODY's buying, even if it's just resellers and big game stores. If we assume most people are being hit hard by the pandemic and that wages aren't rising as fast as inflation, it seems like the demographic for GW customers and hobbyists is simply shifting to a higher income bracket. 40K is literally becoming gentrified. I can still afford it, so it's a bit strange to me to see people say they "just got priced out" every time a new kit or price increases comes out, but I can understand it because not everyone can afford to spend a hundred to a few hundred every month on what are basically toys. Money is tight for many people.

 

An important lesson that people need to realize is that "voting with your wallet" and "people just won't buy at that price" simply aren't true. Notice how GW has never lowered their prices and yet their sales continue to increase. WotC and Magic: the Gathering had the same thing happen. More and more expensive products, but more and more sales. WotC made a VERY unpopular move that angered many, many players. But "voting with their wallet" didn't matter, because the product sold out INSTANTLY by all the scalpers, collectors, and non-players who liked the product. Voting with your wallet only helps if your boycott actually affects the company's profits.

THANK YOU!  Voting with your wallet is not a real thing. 

 

It is a real thing, but people dramatically overestimate how much their own situation applies to others. One vote among millions is not totally meaningless, but it is a very very small impact. It's only when a LOT of people vote with their wallet that it has a meaningful impact.

 

We only have to look at GW in the 2005-2015 era to see the collective impact of customer reaction to a pure profit focus by Kirby. Specialist games were pretty much abandoned, terms were tightened with independent stockists, and there were a number of IP cease&desists, including of course the infamous chapterhouse suit that they largely lost. Staff were disheartened, and a lot of people stopped buying, so profits fell. LOTR sales had petered out. I remember articles in the early 2010s speculating that GW would actually go under, their net income was looking that poor. That only happened because people 'voted with their wallet' and stopped buying. Share price reflected their poor performance.

 

Rountree taking over as CEO changed the direction of the company significantly. We may not have seen price drops, but we did see a lot more 'discount boxes' such as starter sets that were significantly cheaper than the cost of the individual kits in them. Prices did stay static for a while, which amounts to a real-terms price cut as inflation does its thing.

 

They also started allowing different tactics for different countries, and a big purge on loss making stores. A complete reboot of warhammer fantasy. A semi-reboot in 40k 8th ed. And of course, fan-service releases such as genestealer cults, sisters of battle and now plastic krieg. Specialist games came back. A big move into other media such as licencing out their IP, which we're seeing now especially with warhammer+. There's also tactics we may not like, such as the stoking of FOMO and the limited initial availability of new releases at a premium price (such as the new ork box, or the new primaris big boxes), but they have been working from a sales perspective.

 

When it comes to luxury products, nostalgia can be a powerful seller. I suspect GW is benefiting significantly from people now in their 30s and 40s coming back to the hobby - now they have substantially higher income - and buying things that appealed to them 20 years ago, but now in much higher quality. And it has to be said, GW is an absolute leader in high quality plastic models, I can't think of anyone that matches them in what they can do with a sprue currently. (resin is a different matter, but that doesn't scale - yet)

 

GW profits are rising year-on-year, and they've taken the opportunity to fund expansion in Nottingham and redo their ancient ERP system, and borrowed a large amount to do so. So we're seeing price increases.

 

The pandemic arguably has been a benefit to them; their now middle-class customers have been working from home, so with more free time and less money spent on going out, GW has seen a massive surge in demand.

 

Price increases absolutely drive people out of the hobby, or at least dramatically curtail their purchases, and in effect they are voting with their wallet by stopping buying. But GW has been getting enough new or returning customers who *do* pay the higher prices so they are simply being outvoted at the moment. I think calling it gentrification is spot on. GW has never been a particularly affordable hobby, but if I was trying to get into it now with my income as it was in my early 20s? Not a chance. Even in my 40s, it's making me wince and I'm buying a lot less models. I've bought a 3d printer, mainly for making custom bits (instead of paying shapeways prices) - but the Dark Side definitely beckons... I do wonder how much long term damage they're storing up by pricing younger people out of the hobby; but for now, it's working for them.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Arkhanist

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

>>Price increases absolutely drive people out of the hobby, or at least dramatically curtail their purchases, and in effect they are voting with their wallet by  stopping buying."

 

Voting implies you had a choice about how much you could afford to buy. No one chooses to be priced out. 

[Arkhanist]

>>Price increases absolutely drive people out of the hobby, or at least dramatically curtail their purchases, and in effect they are voting with their wallet by  stopping buying."

 

Voting implies you had a choice about how much you could afford to buy. No one chooses to be priced out. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we may be defining the phrase differently. I'm using this one: "to choose or vote according to what is best for you financially"

 

There is pretty much always an element of choice in what we spend money on. We can probably agree that GW stuff is not essential to life, which does distort things (people buying say, drinking water when the alternative is death, is not really a choice!). But excluding that type of purchasing, buying anything has what's called an "opportunity cost" - what you might have spent the money on instead. You're comparing how much enjoyment these particular plastic soldiers will bring you vs say, going for a nice meal with friends, or a year's netflix sub - or rent. Though people don't tend to think of it quite that bluntly, it is a big factor in how we choose whether we buy one thing or another.

 

If you don't buy GW products because the opportunity cost is too high i.e. there's other things you'd rather or need to spend that amount of money on - that's still a choice. And it can be because the products are priced too high, or the product itself doesn't appeal - you're still voting with your wallet if you think Primaris suck and don't want to buy them, whether you could affort them or not. So for GW, if too many people 'vote for' - or choose - the alternatives to buying GW products, it needs to make changes before it goes out of business. Either making their products more appealing to more people so it's worth the cost, or cutting prices so the opportunity cost is lower, or both.

 

Now, if you define 'voting with your wallet' as intentional consumer activism, akin to a boycott, then I can see where you're coming from - and yes, someone unable to afford it wouldn't be boycotting per se, as buying wasn't an option in the first place, and indeed, the effect is always going to be so small as to be meaningless as far more people aren't thinking about it at that level.

 

So I think we may be using different meaings of the same phrase, rather then necessarily disagreeing per se.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Arkhanist