Kill-Team New Edition Box

[Arkhanist]

Has anyone seen an actual photo of two minis side by side, rather than an approximation formed from two different photos taken at different angles?

None from any of the handful of people who got review boxes yet. We'll likely have to wait till it ships out. In the mean time, a better composite comparison from the same angle.

 

 

edit:

 

Found one! From the Sprues and Brews review and unboxing.

 

 

source video where he compares to forgeworld DKOK at 17:30.

 

 

A right arm shoulderpad could be added to the resin version, and the smaller ankles can be concealed with basing, but the lasgun scale difference is quite noticeable.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Arkhanist

[Seahawk]

To be fair, in that pic it's a sniper long-las so it's a bad comparison, but the new versions do look a little bulkier overall. 

[Petitioner's City]

For those complaining about the compendium,there are quotes from Goonhammer's Robert Jones on Reddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/killteam/comments/p46d81/goonhammers_review_of_the_kill_team_compendium/

 

Question: 1st thanks for the write-up, it was a good read and interesting, especially given that a lot of the reviews don't seem to be from people who've tried the rules as opposed to just looking at the book.

 

2 questions though. Do things like the equipment options and the ability to choose from the roster make team building feel more interesting in practice, or or is it generally right that is that the teams are just pretty Set?

 

Then More generally What teams do you think play the most like they should play as opposed to just feeling balancedAnd are there any teams that you think don't play like they should?

 

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So, Caveat that so far I've only played with marines, necrons, Csm, daemons, TS, and Death Guard. We've tried to get a big swath of games before writing this and I've gone up against custodes, drukhari, marines, kommandos, and veteran guardsmen (I didn't write all the sections - we have multiple authors).

 

The equipment can be transformative for some factions and feel like a set add-on for others. An example: For daemons you're generally only going to have four options and when I ran that team I put nothing on the bloodletters to run max +1 damage charms on my pinks to get good shooting support, because 4/5 damage is pretty nasty. On the other hand Drukhari have a ton of options and the Equipment realy makes that team stand out.

 

Death Guard have limited equipment but one of them is a nurgling so you can finally have rules for the nurglings on your base, which is hilarious. The Nurgling gives nearby enemies -1 APL and costs 3 EP but it's one per team.

 

You get 10 points of stuff per game and most things cost 1-3 so you're usually getting like 5 peices of Equipment before you go in.

 

Play-wise the teams I've played felt pretty spot-on so far. Death Guard feel about perfect. Chaos marines maybe a bit less so, if only because I expected them to be slightly better at melee but their wargear kind of limits that. Necrons also felt pretty good with the wound regen. Heavy Intercessors were the one team I was surprised by in a negative way, just because I felt they kind of suck. But I hate them for what they did to KT18 so whatever

 

 

NoGoatsNoGlory

15h

How do the lists from the compendium play against Octarius? In terms of doing a campaign, it sounds like there’s not much option in expanding to a 20 man roster without just getting another set?

 

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u/SA_Chirurgeon avatar

SA_Chirurgeon

Chaos Space Marines

15h

So far the kill teams in the compendium have played just fine against Octarius teams in matched play games. The Octarius teams have more going on in some ways and some extra flexibility from faction objectives, but compendium teams fare just fine against them - it all feels pretty reasonable. I tested Necrons vs. Kommandos and Daemons vs. Veteran Guardsmen in my games and won both, though the airstrikes vet guard could call in made the daemons game a pretty close one.

 

Not sure what you're asking here re: campaigns, though - can you elaborate?

 

9

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u/NoGoatsNoGlory avatar

NoGoatsNoGlory

14h

Sorry, was mixed up by 20 man roster for matched play.

 

Are there restrictions on list building for narrative play, spec ops?

 

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u/SA_Chirurgeon avatar

SA_Chirurgeon

Chaos Space Marines

14h

You aren't limited to the max number of operatives - you start with one "kill team" worth of operatives, and can only add more when the rules specify, but you're limited to a max of 20 operatives on your dataslate. Otherwise you still use fire team rules when you sit down to play because Spec Ops doesn't give you missions - you use either matched play or Octarius missions and those have you build from fire teams pre-game, though you can make your own missions as you like (and they give you a page of suggestions and guidelines for making your own).

 

I like Chaos Marines in this - they're very versatile with regard to secondary choices. The upside marines have is that they have more fire team options, and with those you can access the entire set of secondary choices. People do not realize how big a deal this will be and it's hard to communicate in some of the recaps we've done. You only get one set of secondaries per game and the categories you can pull from are determined by your fire team. Those 4-Custodes lists only have access to 2 of the four secondary categories.

 

And Intercessors with bolt rifles aren't all *that* boring - they're just a solid, versatile team and you can outfit them with some extra equipment to customize a bit. Yeah, they aren't as exciting as Deathwatch veterans, but who is? They get all three gun options plus you can equip them with grenade launchers, Suspensors, auspexes, purity seals, and grenades as you see fit. Also reiver teams are pretty great. It's not as bad as it looks, is my point.

I think the tradeoff is that marines have more fire team options so they have loads of pre-game flexibility and very versatile operatives. I wouldn't have minded seeing Scouts mixed with tac marines as a kind of 3-and-5 option but I think they want to push the idea that outside of deathwatch that's just not how marines operate.

 

On the whole I think it's worth trying out and seeing how they play, and I'll tell you it's the safest bet on the planet that we'll get a primaris kill team with more options sooner than later. I mean, it's GW. I'm amazed they were able to go Krieg and Kommandos for the starter (though I love what they did with both)

Q: I don't understand how 4 heavy intercessors are equivalently balanced to 4 custodies

 

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The stats are pretty comparable. Heavy Intercessors and Custodes both have 18 wounds, but while the Custodes have better saves and melee attacks, the heavy intercessors have much better shooting with pretty much all their options, plus better Stratagem support and more Equipment options (They can take Suspensors to move and shoot heavy weapons with ease)

Q:I was upset to see another video saying 5 marines vs 4 Custodes meaning :cuss balance. Thanks to your post I feel much relieved. I’m curious to know how marines make up their lack of bodies.

 

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I didn't find a 4 custodes team to be all that impressive playing against them with 5 death guard. They're kind of bad at shooting and while they have 4 APL each they have to spend CP to make the most of it - I think a team of 2 custodes + sisters is likely to be much stronger.

 

Q: Markerlight rules seem... unimpressive. I would have liked to be able to benefit from more than 1 light so the limited special weapons Tau have could hit harder/with less variance involved.

 

 

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The benefit is pretty solid. I wouldn't sweat the multiple markerlights too much ; with a cost of 1 AP per light it's not likely that you'll want to spend a ton of AP getting them off and the upside is that markerlights automatically hit and can be done while moving.

 

 

Q: How did the necron fireteams feel? I really wasn't impressed with the lack of being able to bring a single Deathmark as a sniper and feel like bringing 4 is too many, ideally I'd have really liked to be able to mix and match a few different model types more or less like how the veterans fireteam from the box set works.

 

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That part is definitely weird, particularly if you haven't played Kill Team yet to get a feel for how that might work in-game. I went with warriors + immortals but I'm considering a more shooting-heavy immortals + deathmarks team and a Deathmarks + flayed one team where they provide cover for the flayed ones' approach. Deathmarks can hit like a brick but are even slower thanks to the Heavy rule on their guns, but they also don't do so much damage it's not worth it to have five of them so you can just blow targets off the table.

 

The big thing about necron teams is you can't leave them on low wounds. I like warriors for them a lot because just having extra bodies to heal 2 Wounds per turn is powerful stuff. It's a different dynamic from other teams because they'll recover from injury (below half wounds) on their own and can get back up even if killed. It's fun to watch what your opp did on T1 just evaporate on turns 2-3

Question: How do you feel about the changes to psykers? It seems like psybolt is missing from the whole book but has been replaced by a bunch of other abilities.

 

 

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I like the changes. Psychic powers just happening feels much better and the differences between thousand sons and grey knights feels very distinct. The thousand sons were pretty nasty in my test game but you p much always want to bring an icon for the double cast.

 

Enjoyed the read, but quick question about the Kroot.

 

The article says that with fieldcraft you can "swap to Engage, shoot something, then pop back into Conceal" but the action from field craft costs 1 AP and the kroot have 2 APL. How do they switch back to Conceal after shooting? Is this an error in the article or am I missing something?

 

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SA_Chirurgeon:

 

You set the operative's order when you activate them on turns 2+, so you'd say "I'm going into engage with this operative" when you activate, then shoot, then spend 1 AP to go into conceal. On turn 1 your orders are set during deployment so you don't have that option but on later turns you do!

 

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ratz30:

Cool, thanks for the clarification! I'm excited that Kroot seem to have a much better toolbox to work with this time around. Maybe they won't be the absolute bottom of the barrel anymore

 

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yeah, Kroot and Daemons both feel like actual teams this time around. Kroot are definitely going to require some finesse and careful use of cover but I don't feel like they're an afterthought any more, which is great.

 

Penniwhistle

10h

As someone who started 40k with the 3.5 CSM codex and been pooped on ever since...seeing the CSM squad looking good has sparked a lot of joy. Just ran out for another box of them and put together a kill team. Also, the lack of differentiation between power weapons means I finally have a use for the box's power maul.

 

Am I right in thinking that the heavy bolter is looking like the better option than the missile launcher? The double shoot strat + the move and shoot equipment seems real nice with it. Also, are you finding that you're within 6" often enough to make use of a meltagun compared to a plasma gun?

 

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u/SA_Chirurgeon avatar

SA_Chirurgeon

Chaos Space Marines

9h

This is an area where you want both on your roster because you can swap one onto the team when you build your fireteams for the game. The Missile Launcher has more versatility and having flat AP1 on the Krak mode will do more work for you on average than the heavy bolter only getting it on critical hits, though it's something we'll look at in a future hammer of math. The Frag mode on the launcher is great against hordes, but yeah generally the missile launcher is my first pick.

 

The meltagun is fantastic against heavier targets that try to get in close because it has AP2 all the time and does so much damage. It's great against Custodes in particular. Plus regular CSM have 6" movement so they can close the gaps needed to get there. I can't tell you how much fun it is to drop 8 MWs on someone with the melta *before* they roll defense cause you scored 2 mortals. It's as close to playing the old Space Marine PC game as 40k gets.

 

SavageSean75

16h

Top 3 factions in your opinion?

 

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u/SA_Chirurgeon avatar

SA_Chirurgeon

Chaos Space Marines

16h

ooooh, good question. I think Harlequins are going to be a legitimate force. Beyond that, two of Kommandos, Veteran Guardsmen, Death Guard, and Kroot or GSC, depending on how good swapping orders is and how heavy your terrain set-ups are.

 

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u/SA_Chirurgeon avatar

SA_Chirurgeon

Chaos Space Marines

16h

that said, don't sleep on CSM, who may be the game's most versatile faction

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Petitioner's City

[Fire Golem]

To be fair, in that pic it's a sniper long-las so it's a bad comparison, but the new versions do look a little bulkier overall. 

The guy on the right has the normal one. 

[RedRowan]

I'm more interested in the two factions in the box at this point so the compendium is of no interest to me but the Goonhammer write up is well worth a read. Certainly one of the more balanced I've seen so far.

 

Steve

[Petitioner's City]

I'm more interested in the two factions in the box at this point so the compendium is of no interest to me but the Goonhammer write up is well worth a read. Certainly one of the more balanced I've seen so far.

 

Steve

It's one of the few reviews that feels like they've played all the factions in the book; while not in so many sessions they've used the book through and through, unlike other (clickbaity) reviews.

[Ishagu]

The thing disappointing me is the cost of entering kill team. You have to buy two books just to use existing models and play the game - and that's approaching the 40k admin costs.

 

And I assume the game has it's own dice and what not?

[Matcap86]

The thing disappointing me is the cost of entering kill team. You have to buy two books just to use existing models and play the game - and that's approaching the 40k admin costs.

 

And I assume the game has it's own dice and what not?

Afaik it's just d6's. And the weird range ruler, but those ranges are all in 1-5 inches.

[Antarius]

The thing disappointing me is the cost of entering kill team. You have to buy two books just to use existing models and play the game - and that's approaching the 40k admin costs.

 

And I assume the game has it's own dice and what not?

Seems like normal dice. 

 

The entry cost may be the same (I don’t really see how you could need less than a starter box/rulebooks and minis, tbh), but it should still be a lot cheaper to play Kill Team than any “big army” game. Also, assuming you’re getting started along with somebody, sharing a starterbox/rulebooks seems perfectly reasonable.

[Arkhanist]

The thing disappointing me is the cost of entering kill team. You have to buy two books just to use existing models and play the game - and that's approaching the 40k admin costs.

 

And I assume the game has it's own dice and what not?

Yeah, the cost of the 2 books is a bit cheeky. And you rather need the counters+gauge set too. The compendium is somewhat indexy. The rules for the kommandos and krieg are only in the octarius book at this point; and with the roadmap, there's definitely going to be more in that vein with campaign books and more faction kill teams that bring more variety/mixed loadouts, and quite likely terrain too - I suspect with rules gated behind one big box ala Octarius initially. (though they may skip the main rulebook)

 

The dice are bog standard d6, thankfully, and the gauges are just symbols for fixed inch distances; you could easily paint them on an existing combat gauge or just use a tape measure. I expect 3rd party laser cut counters to be along shortly, We'll see if the octarius book or just datasheets are available outside the box when they eventually sell the kill teams separately; currently, you can't build your own kommandos or krieg team from existing minis. The octarius missions do seem tied hard to the in-box terrain too.

 

I did finally fold and pre-order (those krieg are just toooo good!) but was planning to sell off the terrain to offset the cost; but now I'm not sure if I'll be able to sub in my existing terrain for the octarius missions.

[Kastor Krieg]

The thing disappointing me is the cost of entering kill team. You have to buy two books just to use existing models and play the game - and that's approaching the 40k admin costs.

 

And I assume the game has it's own dice and what not?

It has it's "d6 with faction symbol" dice, but no "special dice", regular d6 work.

[Ishagu]

Not needing special dice is a relief. I just feel the cost has taken the wind out of my sails, especially knowing full well that the commendium is very much an index that will be replaced once each faction receives it's own kill team release.

And it seems a bit limited considering they were recently selling kill team boxed with Commander units in them, and that will obviously be another expansion down the line.

 

Still, people in my scene are playing it so I will invest, grudgingly. And I do appreciate a quicker game considering how busy I have been in recent times.

[Dark Shepherd]

Octarius box is still in stock, will be funny if after everything the first limited plus MTO box doesnt sell out its initial run

 

Ork dice have sold out

[Matrindur]

Why are there so many who seem to think that the Compendium is just an index and factions will get new rules with their Kill Teams? 

If you look at Octarius its just Kommandos and Veteran Guardsman (DKoK) that have greater Customization, there are still normal Ork and Guard Killteams in the compendium that don't have anything more than others as far as I know? So if you want to play anything else from that faction that isn't Kommandos/DkoK you still have to use the Compendium rules.

 

When new Kill teams are released it will probably also just be a single unit type from their faction which will form their own Kill team with new rules and not replace the Compendium Kill Teams

Edited August 15, 2021 by Matrindur

[Dark Shepherd]

Id say therell be at least supplements or an annual again that will add/expand units

 

Anyone got pics of the Marine tactics/strats?

[Matrindur]

Id say therell be at least supplements or an annual again that will add/expand units

 

Not saying there won't be any expansions just that I wouldn't expect the Compendium Kill Teams to get anything changed when stuff like Octarius with dedicated Kill Teams is released

[Dark Shepherd]

 

 

Id say therell be at least supplements or an annual again that will add/expand units

Not saying there won't be any expansions just that I wouldn't expect the Compendium Kill Teams to get anything changed when stuff like Octarius with dedicated Kill Teams is released

I reckon compendium teams might get improvements with supplements or CA. And or factions might get more fun/flavourful options with new teams hopefully not just limited to new warzone boxes

[Plasmablasts]

Hopefully they’ll follow something close to the Underworlds pattern: a couple of factions in a starter box for the “season”, then additional factions as individual boxes with their rules included.

[Halandaar]

Why are there so many who seem to think that the Compendium is just an index and factions will get new rules with their Kill Teams? 

If you look at Octarius its just Kommandos and Veteran Guardsman (DKoK) that have greater Customization, there are still normal Ork and Guard Killteams in the compendium that don't have anything more than others as far as I know? So if you want to play anything else from that faction that isn't Kommandos/DkoK you still have to use the Compendium rules.

 

When new Kill teams are released it will probably also just be a single unit type from their faction which will form their own Kill team with new rules and not replace the Compendium Kill Teams

 

Yeah, that's my impression as well; each faction is going to get a single unit/kit that's actually designed around Kill Team and those are going to get new rules, everything else will just be the rules from the compendium.

 

Using Tau as an example, we've seen a rumour of a Kill Team specialist upgrade sprue for the Pathfinders, so their rules will change when that gets released but all the other Tau units in the compendium stay as-is.

[Arkhanist]

 

Id say therell be at least supplements or an annual again that will add/expand units

 

Not saying there won't be any expansions just that I wouldn't expect the Compendium Kill Teams to get anything changed when stuff like Octarius with dedicated Kill Teams is released

 

I don't think the compendium rosters will be obsoleted; at least, not any time soon. But what people mean by like the indexes is that they're quite limited in comparison to the 2 new bespoke killteams.

 

You can take a generic ork or IG roster from the compendium instead of the kommandos or krieg veterans; but I'm not sure you'd want to given the choice.

 

Both new teams have significantly more variation in equipment options.

 

For example, with the compendium orks, you have the boy fireteam;  standard boys amd 1 gunner only. The clan kommando fireteam;  standard kommandos only. The specialist fireteam, burnas and lootas. Plus upgrade one boy to a nob, and you get 2 fireteams total. Plus the fireteams are quite limited in archetypes.

 

The new kommando fireteam has 1 nob (two loadouts), standard kommandos and up to one each of ninja grot, bomb squig, slasha, breacha, snipa, dakka,comms, burna and rokkit boys; and a lot more ploys and add on equipment.

 

I can see taking compendium orks if you wanted more heavy guns via lootas, I guess. Or if you don't have access to the octarius book with the kommando rules.

 

Same with guardsmen; the veterans have a number more options and flexibility in squad building compared to their compendium version, such as a medic or zealot, and again more ploys and kit.

 

Space marines; no mix and matching squad types at all between fireteams. They're relatively good allrounders, and each fireteam does gets its own equipment upgrades, but if you want to have an assault intercessor or two for melee, with say heavy intercessors as a firebase, with incursors controlling the mid field - that's a no. I could easily see a phobos marine kill team coming out, giving you more flexbility that the compendium lacks.

 

That's not to say the compendium teams are *bad* - there's definitely good kill teams in there overall - but they've clearly based it on what models you get in a 40k squad box, rather than allowing you to build your own dirty dozen, so to speak. And that's what will change I expect as new kill teams are released, within the scope of the squad in the new box, of course.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Arkhanist

[RWJP]

Octarius box is still in stock, will be funny if after everything the first limited plus MTO box doesnt sell out its initial run

 

Ork dice have sold out

The interesting thing is, with the Metal Combat Gauge Promotion, this is also one of the very few occasions where we get a VERY rough indication of how many products GW have produced and sold.

 

The T&Cs for the Combat Gauge say there are 27,500 available and will only be applied while stocks last. We can reasonably guess out a few things from this:

 

• GW had at least 27,500 copies of Kill Team: Octarius available for sale directly through their website
• As of 3pm BST 15th August fewer than 27,500 copies have been sold direct through GW as the combat gauge was still available
• Overall production for Kill Team: Octarius almost certainly exceeds 30,000 copies (especially as Dark Sphere are showing that they are supposed to receive 950 copies!)

As a fun point, if GW sells enough copies of the box for the Combat Gauge to run out, they will have sold £3,437,500 worth of boxes (27,500 x £125)

Edited August 15, 2021 by RWJP

[01RTB01]

Not needing special dice is a relief. I just feel the cost has taken the wind out of my sails, especially knowing full well that the commendium is very much an index that will be replaced once each faction receives it's own kill team release.

And it seems a bit limited considering they were recently selling kill team boxed with Commander units in them, and that will obviously be another expansion down the line.

 

Still, people in my scene are playing it so I will invest, grudgingly. And I do appreciate a quicker game considering how busy I have been in recent times.

Why don't you club together to buy books if there's a group? The compendium probably isn't worth one person buying. Several people sharing a copy.

[Noserenda]

I think the compendium runs into a few problems, its a bit pricy for a get you by book, its not very inspiring and its contents will be available for free on wahaaaaapedia and Battlescribe in a couple of weeks anyway. Obviously the latter point is less useful if you prefer books when you play but its not nothing.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Noserenda

[mactire]

 

Octarius box is still in stock, will be funny if after everything the first limited plus MTO box doesnt sell out its initial run

Ork dice have sold out

 

The interesting thing is, with the Metal Combat Gauge Promotion, this is also one of the very few occasions where we get a VERY rough indication of how many products GW have produced and sold.

The T&Cs for the Combat Gauge say there are 27,500 available and will only be applied while stocks last. We can reasonably guess out a few things from this:

 

• GW had at least 27,500 copies of Kill Team: Octarius available for sale directly through their website
• As of 3pm BST 15th August fewer than 27,500 copies have been sold direct through GW as the combat gauge was still available
• Overall production for Kill Team: Octarius almost certainly exceeds 30,000 copies (especially as Dark Sphere are showing that they are supposed to receive 950 copies!)

As a fun point, if GW sells enough copies of the box for the Combat Gauge to run out, they will have sold £3,437,500 worth of boxes (27,500 x £125)

 

No wonder the share price is good, that's phenomenal sales figures for what is a niche system within a niche hobby.

 

Have to say, I am happy with their sales strategy. I work Saturday mornings and it was nice to finish up, come home, shower, bit of grub, sit down at 2pm and order a new release at my leisure.

[Dark Shepherd]

 

 

Octarius box is still in stock, will be funny if after everything the first limited plus MTO box doesnt sell out its initial run

 

Ork dice have sold out

The interesting thing is, with the Metal Combat Gauge Promotion, this is also one of the very few occasions where we get a VERY rough indication of how many products GW have produced and sold.

 

The T&Cs for the Combat Gauge say there are 27,500 available and will only be applied while stocks last. We can reasonably guess out a few things from this:

• GW had at least 27,500 copies of Kill Team: Octarius available for sale directly through their website
• As of 3pm BST 15th August fewer than 27,500 copies have been sold direct through GW as the combat gauge was still available
• Overall production for Kill Team: Octarius almost certainly exceeds 30,000 copies (especially as Dark Sphere are showing that they are supposed to receive 950 copies!)

As a fun point, if GW sells enough copies of the box for the Combat Gauge to run out, they will have sold £3,437,500 worth of boxes (27,500 x £125)

Was wondering where the 27500 was coming from

 

Given trade sells account for half of sales I think we can almost double the 27500