Black Templar Teaser and Rumors

[Odd-ad]

New article is up, vows and passions

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/05/when-the-black-templars-take-a-vow-in-their-new-codex-supplement-they-really-mean-it/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=Twitter&utm_term=TemplarVows051021&utm_content=TemplarVows051021

[Odd-ad]

Looks like GW took inspiration from the old codex again, each vow has a bonus, but also a drawback.

 

e.g. Accept Any Challenge puts all units in combat in the assault doctrine and gives an extra attack (doesn't stack with shock assault) but you can't fall back

[Marshal Mattias]

That's fantastic, I love it! Not sure I have ever voluntarily fallen back from a combat anyway

[BitsHammer]

I like how they give buffs but have drawbacks. It'll be nice if GW could do that with every ruleset.

[Medjugorje]

i am not impressed with AAC. I hoped for reroll all hits so that we can play our army as MSU.

being in the assault doctrine was always possible in any form with Crusader helment, stratagems and 3rd round.

This Vow seems to be really bad. not comulative with shock assault is sooo baad

[Banjulhu]

Always on Assault doctrine seems useful.

 

I wonder if Knights of Sigismund is still in there and if it is written in such a way as to work with the vow (current wording would not work as it requires the Combat Doctrine to be active rather than just getting the bonus as if the doctrine was active.

[Blindhamster]

i am not impressed with AAC. I hoped for reroll all hits so that we can play our army as MSU.

being in the assault doctrine was always possible in any form with Crusader helment, stratagems and 3rd round.

This Vow seems to be really bad. not comulative with shock assault is sooo baad

honestly thought totally the opposite. Being able to guarantee you're able to use assault doctrine without burning CP, or using a specific relic, from round 1, is very good. It means you can launch the assaults before other marines are able to fight back effectively. The +1 in attack essentially means where other marines hit hard at the start, templars just keep fighting with as much skill. It's very good for any fight that lasts more than a round - which makes sense as the theme of the vow is fighting no matter the odds.

[Odd-ad]

AAC would also pair nicely with our Devout Push shenanigans, if we keep it that is

[Medjugorje]

That's fantastic, I love it! Not sure I have ever voluntarily fallen back from a combat anyway

in our tournament Whatsapp group we are all common sence. This Trait is far more worst then dont having that. Its really bad.

 

Falling back is often important (gamewise - although I know that its not very templar ´ish).  But the main concern for me is that the bonus is not good. Its not just an additional ap or something.Its finally just 4th round tactical doctrine. For all other cases we used to have the crusader helmet and the stratagem which take the most important unit into the assault doctrine. 

 

 

That more I think about  I am really frustrated. And Admech and Drukhari are still super stupid good.

 

i am not impressed with AAC. I hoped for reroll all hits so that we can play our army as MSU.

being in the assault doctrine was always possible in any form with Crusader helment, stratagems and 3rd round.

This Vow seems to be really bad. not comulative with shock assault is sooo baad

honestly thought totally the opposite. Being able to guarantee you're able to use assault doctrine without burning CP, or using a specific relic, from round 1, is very good. It means you can launch the assaults before other marines are able to fight back effectively. The +1 in attack essentially means where other marines hit hard at the start, templars just keep fighting with as much skill. It's very good for any fight that lasts more than a round - which makes sense as the theme of the vow is fighting no matter the odds.

 

How many charges are possible in first round usually?

With devot push and will of the emperor maybe ONE.

In all competitive games the opponent dont give you the option to charge more then one unit.

 

C´mon GW ... that sucks.

[Blindhamster]

lol, i repeat my previous comment, you guys are hard to please!

[Brother Talarian]

I really don’t think it’s bad….. in my experience either:

Your units are all engaged before T3 so you nearly never get a bonus.

Games are often decided by T3/4 so if you can get your bonus ASAP that’s a good thing…

 

EDIT:

This is also the first snippet of the rules that we see, let’s wait and see. Maybe there’s a strat that gives army wide +10 attacks permanently. We don’t know. Wait and see.

 

It’s an obvious buff to what it used to be. OP? Maybe not. Time will tell

Edited October 5, 2021 by Brother Talarian

[Medjugorje]

I really don’t think it’s bad….. in my experience either:

Your units are all engaged before T3 so you nearly never get a bonus.

Games are often decided by T3/4 so if you can get your bonus ASAP that’s a good thing…

 

EDIT:

This is also the first snippet of the rules that we see, let’s wait and see. Maybe there’s a strat that gives army wide +10 attacks permanently. We don’t know. Wait and see.

 

It’s an obvious buff to what it used to be. OP? Maybe not. Time will tell

in my experience ( and i played already in lots of tournaments) you are always in assault docrine. Especilly if the charge is important. Because of Crusader helmet. And back then we had autowounds on 6s which is not a bonus anymore what makes that even worst.

[Banjulhu]

On the plus side it would appear the Sword Bretheren kit has at least 3 power swords in it.

And the Bladeguard Ancient shows up again.

Now it would be cool if the Sword Bretheren unit got the Bladeguard keyword so they could get the +1 to hit from the ancient.

[Medjugorje]

lol, i repeat my previous comment, you guys are hard to please!

thats because I really hoped to see Reroll to hits or  +1 to hit in general for this treat - like it was in 3rd to 5th edition. 

 

And with our current lists this Vow has no positive impact in the whole game. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I think it's great. Turn 2 in particular, shoot with the benefit of tactical doctrine, fight with the benefit of assault. 
Even turn one, if you go second and get charged turn one by a fast army, the fight back has as many attacks as the first round of combat. 

I think it's great, and considering how little I fall back, it's all good.

[redmapa]

I mean if you really wanted to get a turn 1 charge you can totally do it, infiltrating warsuits or with drop pods with a chaplain it, you can most certainly get a 9" charge off if you are rerolling it and adding 2" from the chaplain. Drop pods arent that good but reserves come off on turn 2 and with fast units you should be able to get stuck in by then, AAC opens the possibility for you to stay in Tactical while always benefitting from Assault doctrine. I honestly dont see aa negative to this.

 

I do think you will have to lean on these buffs to get the most of them and that will maybe change what your list priorities are. For example Abhor the Witch isnt great but a mechanized list will benefit from it since all your infantry now gets out an extra 6" and not just 3", Impulsors make everyone even faster! Might be heresy but with Impulsors shooty units can now be anywhere and if Devout Push stays then that unit gets an extra 18" movement.

[Medjugorje]

I think it's great. Turn 2 in particular, shoot with the benefit of tactical doctrine, fight with the benefit of assault. 

Even turn one, if you go second and get charged turn one by a fast army, the fight back has as many attacks as the first round of combat. 

 

I think it's great, and considering how little I fall back, it's all good.

But be honest... how many charges are possible in competitve games? most likely one or two. And then you use Vangaurd Vets with claws and buffed with crusader hlemet and litanies and so on.........

 

If there are not great stratagems then I swear to you that all of us wont take that vow  in next frew month.

 

The great thing ( while being so negative at the moment)... we can choose one of the 4 each game. So we dont have to take AAC all the times except there is maybe one opponent where it might be good.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Unless the other two are very good, why would you not take it? It adds consistency because you have the same amount of attacks whether it was a turn with charges or not. Falling back in a melee army is usually more bad than good, because you can't do anything, where at least if you stay in combat you can shoot pistols and swing again with an extra attack. 

[Marshal Mattias]

Gotta remember that a lot of people aren't remotely interested in tournament play, so there's really no point in arguing about "good" or "bad" without clarification.

I think it's fantastic because it's a super fluffy rule with practical use for most people. It may well not be broken/OP for the tournament scene, but honestly I don't want a super-powered codex, I just want thematic and average-tier.

[Medjugorje]

Unless the other two are very good, why would you not take it? It adds consistency because you have the same amount of attacks whether it was a turn with charges or not. Falling back in a melee army is usually more bad than good, because you can't do anything, where at least if you stay in combat you can shoot pistols and swing again with an extra attack. 

 

with devout push you can do.

 

And the main thing is that if you want to leave - then normally because it is the better option. dont forget staying in melee means that you loose one unit which is normally on the table, the enemye get additional movement.

 

Especially the one last remaining dude is a initaite which have OBsec. He alone can deny the marker next round for the enemy WHICH IS THAT important. 

[Marshall Bretton]

Can someone clarify the passion for abhor the witch for me? Haven't really played this addition but if an enemy psyker is withing 18" the unit can't take any actions? I'm assuming that is either a typo or I am misunderstanding it because it sounds like the unit will just sit there and do nothing until the psyker moves...

[Medjugorje]

you can "perform" actions when doing secoundaries in missions.

 

funnywise - BT have to do this often. Oct. Data or Raise banners are Secoundaries which are often taken. But for this lists maybe we can take a bit more servitor units. I dont think they get vows. But even more funny - we usually use often our servitors for it. Maybe thats possible again.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Marshall Bretton]

Ah that makes sense thank you. I didn't know actions were a thing.

 

I have no interest in tournament play and on the rare occasions I do game it is for fun, so regardless of the mission my objective is always extermination anyway!!

[Medjugorje]

Ah that makes sense thank you. I didn't know actions were a thing.

 

I have no interest in tournament play and on the rare occasions I do game it is for fun, so regardless of the mission my objective is always extermination anyway!!

I am very different. I am on 5th place in tournament ranking germany (t3). But i often play fungames - and for that case the supplement will be exciting - especially because our current index rules are great for that.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Are we just assuming the crusader helmet does the same as it used to? Or do relics rarely change.