Ork Combat Patrol

[nanosquid]

I never thought my years-long desire for new Boyz would be satisfied and yet still be a massive disappointment

[Mandragola]

Something really baffling to me about this box is how it seems like there are two design studios, operating on entirely different strategies. One studio designed the models in this box, all fixed pose with no options and load-outs you don't want. Then a second studio designed the kommandos, with all kinds of cool equipment but also the option to make all of them with sluggas and choppas. Somehow it's even more frustrating that they got the boyz sprue (and the koptas, it seems) so wrong when they're able to get it so right.

[Closet Skeleton]

Something really baffling to me about this box is how it seems like there are two design studios, operating on entirely different strategies. One studio designed the models in this box, all fixed pose with no options and load-outs you don't want. Then a second studio designed the kommandos, with all kinds of cool equipment but also the option to make all of them with sluggas and choppas. Somehow it's even more frustrating that they got the boyz sprue (and the koptas, it seems) so wrong when they're able to get it so right.

Its not two different studios, its different designers in one studio.

 

The Death Shroud and Blight Lord kits are pretty good examples of how one design project can end up with two quite different kits with very similar concepts.

 

The combat patrol isn't aimed at the same target audience as the kill team. Combat Patrol is for new players who don't want to have to think about options they don't understand the pros and cons of before they get their first 20 boys onto their bases.

[LameBeard]

Surely the issue here is sprue density relative to box size? Like Kommandos needed (say) 2.5 sprues minimum so they may as well bump it to 3 and give them even more options. But boyz could be squeezed to (say) 2 minimum, but at the cost of pretty much every option.

 

Strangely the Kreig are in a half way house - 2 sprues plus a mini sprue of extra equipment. Not seen that in a while.

[Mandragola]

I think the Krieg are a different design concept. My guess is that they've done a sprue with 10 bodies and generic options and will accessorise that with stuff like heavy weapon bits when the final kit is released. The veteran upgrade sprue might be sort of a one-off, potentially.

 

That said, even the basic two-sprue DKoK thing has a lot of options including multiple special weapons. It's really nicely done.

[01RTB01]

I think the Krieg are a different design concept. My guess is that they've done a sprue with 10 bodies and generic options and will accessorise that with stuff like heavy weapon bits when the final kit is released. The veteran upgrade sprue might be sort of a one-off, potentially.

 

That said, even the basic two-sprue DKoK thing has a lot of options including multiple special weapons. It's really nicely done.

Both Krieg and kommando sprues are excellent. They're jammed to the rafters with bits and allow enough variety and customisation.

 

The new boys are the antithesis of this. There's a reason I've got 30 kommandos and will be selling my CP boys

[LameBeard]

I think the Krieg are a different design concept. My guess is that they've done a sprue with 10 bodies and generic options and will accessorise that with stuff like heavy weapon bits when the final kit is released. The veteran upgrade sprue might be sort of a one-off, potentially.

 

That said, even the basic two-sprue DKoK thing has a lot of options including multiple special weapons. It's really nicely done.

Exactly, the less bulky humans left room even on 2 sprues for some options. I believe ork boyz suffered from being exactly the wrong size: too big to leave space for options, too small or “core” to justify a third sprue full of options.

 

Maybe the answer was sluggas and choppas for all, and sell shootas and arms as the upgrade separately: for more $!

[Charlo]

Something really baffling to me about this box is how it seems like there are two design studios, operating on entirely different strategies. One studio designed the models in this box, all fixed pose with no options and load-outs you don't want. Then a second studio designed the kommandos, with all kinds of cool equipment but also the option to make all of them with sluggas and choppas. Somehow it's even more frustrating that they got the boyz sprue (and the koptas, it seems) so wrong when they're able to get it so right.

 

They are literally intended for two different use cases.

 

The new Boyz are part of a starter set. They don't replace the old Boyz, they're stil available. They're meant to be an expansion or new start. Options are a premium and these are for a budget set.

 

The Kommandos are made for a game where individual miniature loadouts matter, Kill Team. They need that extra wargear and differences.

 

The design briefs would have been totally seperate.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Something really baffling to me about this box is how it seems like there are two design studios, operating on entirely different strategies. One studio designed the models in this box, all fixed pose with no options and load-outs you don't want. Then a second studio designed the kommandos, with all kinds of cool equipment but also the option to make all of them with sluggas and choppas. Somehow it's even more frustrating that they got the boyz sprue (and the koptas, it seems) so wrong when they're able to get it so right.

They are literally intended for two different use cases.

 

The new Boyz are part of a starter set. They don't replace the old Boyz, they're stil available. They're meant to be an expansion or new start. Options are a premium and these are for a budget set.

 

The Kommandos are made for a game where individual miniature loadouts matter, Kill Team. They need that extra wargear and differences.

 

The design briefs would have been totally seperate.

Ya except that combat patrols aren't actual starter kits. In most cases they're the fully-optioned, stand alone version of the models and not easy to build ones. The easy to build options are also all universally from limited boxes that were later repackaged; none were starter kits.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

Ya except that combat patrols aren't actual starter kits. In most cases they're the fully-optioned, stand alone version of the models and not easy to build ones. The easy to build options are also all universally from limited boxes that were later repackaged; none were starter kits.

 

The Sisters and Space Marine Vanguard Combat patrols do not have full options. When the Chaos Space Marine one comes out it probably won't either if its a expanded version of the Shadowspear/Start Collecting sprues.

 

Combat patrols literally replace start collecting boxes, they are starter sets. The Daemons Start collecting are just the best way to buy daemons, doesn't change the kind of product slot they fill.

[Mandragola]

 

 

 

Something really baffling to me about this box is how it seems like there are two design studios, operating on entirely different strategies. One studio designed the models in this box, all fixed pose with no options and load-outs you don't want. Then a second studio designed the kommandos, with all kinds of cool equipment but also the option to make all of them with sluggas and choppas. Somehow it's even more frustrating that they got the boyz sprue (and the koptas, it seems) so wrong when they're able to get it so right.

They are literally intended for two different use cases.

 

The new Boyz are part of a starter set. They don't replace the old Boyz, they're stil available. They're meant to be an expansion or new start. Options are a premium and these are for a budget set.

 

The Kommandos are made for a game where individual miniature loadouts matter, Kill Team. They need that extra wargear and differences.

 

The design briefs would have been totally seperate.

Ya except that combat patrols aren't actual starter kits. In most cases they're the fully-optioned, stand alone version of the models and not easy to build ones. The easy to build options are also all universally from limited boxes that were later repackaged; none were starter kits.

 

Fully optioned =/= not a starter kit too though.

 

Also what about Chaos Warriors for AoS?

 

The sisters and vanguard combat patrols are repackaged. They also include full units with decent load-outs (or at least the marine one does, I'm not sure about the SoBs).

 

The problem with these boyz is that they aren't a practical kit. You can't easily make units out of them that you'd want in the game. Honestly ETB kits might be a good thing for horde units if they were good, like the chaos warriors, infiltrators and SoBs, but they are not.

 

The good thing is that the existing boyz mob is a fairly good deal at £22.50 for 11 models. If you want boyz you're far better off buying that kit than this combat patrol. Also if you're buying that kit, the 18 actual boyz you get in this CP ought to mix into the rest relatively easily, leaving you with a couple of nobz spare to possibly add to a mob. So I guess the end result is that this CP isn't an awful thing to get for an ork army, but it's something you'll probably just want one of rather than spamming it. 

[battle captain corpus]

=][= Keep the discussion to Warhammer 40,000 and the Orks Combat Patrol box please =][=

 

BCC

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Ya except that combat patrols aren't actual starter kits. In most cases they're the fully-optioned, stand alone version of the models and not easy to build ones. The easy to build options are also all universally from limited boxes that were later repackaged; none were starter kits.

 

The Sisters and Space Marine Vanguard Combat patrols do not have full options. When the Chaos Space Marine one comes out it probably won't either if its a expanded version of the Shadowspear/Start Collecting sprues.

 

Combat patrols literally replace start collecting boxes, they are starter sets. The Daemons Start collecting are just the best way to buy daemons, doesn't change the kind of product slot they fill.

I deliberately said "in most cases" before fully optioned and then addressed those two specific cases as repackaged limited edition boxes. Like what are you trying to say; that shadowspear or the limited sororitas box were really starter kits? The starter kits have been battle for macragge, assault on black reach, dark vengeance, etc... You didn't see the marine discount box with 15 tacs, 5 scouts, 5 assaults and a couple other things use the battle for macragge marines.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

I deliberately said "in most cases" before fully optioned and then addressed those two specific cases as repackaged limited edition boxes. Like what are you trying to say; that shadowspear or the limited sororitas box were really starter kits? The starter kits have been battle for macragge, assault on black reach, dark vengeance, etc... You didn't see the marine discount box with 15 tacs, 5 scouts, 5 assaults and a couple other things use the battle for macragge marines.

 

 

You really nitpicking 'starter set' vs 'start collecting now?

 

You can just be dissapointed and not have to have an air tight logical backing behind your opinions and feelings.

 

The sisters and vanguard combat patrols are repackaged. They also include full units with decent load-outs (or at least the marine one does, I'm not sure about the SoBs).

 

 

Vanguard are primaris, they don't have weapon options like the SoB have so can't really be compared.

 

The miniatures designers have zero ability to predict what's going to be good in the game in the 2-3 years it will take for what they're designing to hit the table.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Closet Skeleton

[Mandragola]

 

 

 

 

The sisters and vanguard combat patrols are repackaged. They also include full units with decent load-outs (or at least the marine one does, I'm not sure about the SoBs).

 

 

Vanguard are primaris, they don't have weapon options like the SoB have so can't really be compared.

 

The miniatures designers have zero ability to predict what's going to be good in the game in the 2-3 years it will take for what they're designing to hit the table.

 

I mean, kind of. They could easily predict that people don't want to mix shootas and sluggas.

 

I don't want to go on about this really. I think it's a badly designed kit and disappointing. I hope this isn't the direction they'll take for any future combat patrols or redesigns.

 

There's one positive of sorts, for me at least. I'm often tempted to start new projects and orks look like fun. I've never really liked the boyz kit though. Can't say I like these any more, so it's one less project I'll have to do!

[SkimaskMohawk]

You really nitpicking 'starter set' vs 'start collecting now?rolleyesclean.gif

 

You can just be dissapointed and not have to have an air tight logical backing behind your opinions and feelings.

It's a nitpick when they were completely different? One came with pushfit/easy build model variants and both a starting scenario and complete rules for the game; clearly targeted at people new to the hobby as a whole. The other came with the full model kits and no rules; you were expected to know how to assemble models and how the units operate and fit into lists, so not for people new to the hobby. If the combat patrol/start collecting really were these starting points for brand new hobbyists thats being claimed, why aren't the marine ones filled with the dark imperium and easy to build kits? Why not have the easy to build plague marines in the death guard one?

 

I can be both disappointed and have a reason for it.

[Arkhanist]

 

 

 

 

 

The sisters and vanguard combat patrols are repackaged. They also include full units with decent load-outs (or at least the marine one does, I'm not sure about the SoBs).

 

 

Vanguard are primaris, they don't have weapon options like the SoB have so can't really be compared.

 

The miniatures designers have zero ability to predict what's going to be good in the game in the 2-3 years it will take for what they're designing to hit the table.

 

I mean, kind of. They could easily predict that people don't want to mix shootas and sluggas.

 

I don't want to go on about this really. I think it's a badly designed kit and disappointing. I hope this isn't the direction they'll take for any future combat patrols or redesigns.

 

There's one positive of sorts, for me at least. I'm often tempted to start new projects and orks look like fun. I've never really liked the boyz kit though. Can't say I like these any more, so it's one less project I'll have to do!

 

 

Same. The new kommando kit in kill team octarius really did have me looking at orks with fresh eyes, it's really excellent - I've never collected orks in 30 odd years, and hadn't been tempted to because of the great age of much of the current range, and not a fan of the old crotch-busting pose. Seeing this new boyz kit be so restrictive has killed that interest right off again for something I'd potentially need 100 of. Maybe some beast snaggas instead? but a quick look seems they're quite monoposey too. Hmm.

[Tokugawa]

Haters gonna hate.

 

IMO EtB is the greatest thing for spread the warhammer hobby. They just need to focus more on units with few/none weapon options.

[MithrilForge]

Haters gonna hate.

IMO EtB is the greatest thing for spread the warhammer hobby. They just need to focus more on units with few/none weapon options.

This is true to a certain extent…. I’m happy with multipart but see the point of ETB …but ETB Should be cheaper than multi part though !

 

 

Mithril

[01RTB01]

 

Haters gonna hate.

IMO EtB is the greatest thing for spread the warhammer hobby. They just need to focus more on units with few/none weapon options.

This is true to a certain extent…. I’m happy with multipart but see the point of ETB …but ETB Should be cheaper than multi part though !

 

 

Mithril

Etb isn't bad. The loadouts are.

 

Even if they'd give ten shootas and ten sluggas and choppas.

[Redcomet]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The sisters and vanguard combat patrols are repackaged. They also include full units with decent load-outs (or at least the marine one does, I'm not sure about the SoBs).

 

 

Vanguard are primaris, they don't have weapon options like the SoB have so can't really be compared.

 

The miniatures designers have zero ability to predict what's going to be good in the game in the 2-3 years it will take for what they're designing to hit the table.

 

I mean, kind of. They could easily predict that people don't want to mix shootas and sluggas.

 

I don't want to go on about this really. I think it's a badly designed kit and disappointing. I hope this isn't the direction they'll take for any future combat patrols or redesigns.

 

There's one positive of sorts, for me at least. I'm often tempted to start new projects and orks look like fun. I've never really liked the boyz kit though. Can't say I like these any more, so it's one less project I'll have to do!

 

 

Same. The new kommando kit in kill team octarius really did have me looking at orks with fresh eyes, it's really excellent - I've never collected orks in 30 odd years, and hadn't been tempted to because of the great age of much of the current range, and not a fan of the old crotch-busting pose. Seeing this new boyz kit be so restrictive has killed that interest right off again for something I'd potentially need 100 of. Maybe some beast snaggas instead? but a quick look seems they're quite monoposey too. Hmm.

 

The beast snagga boyz are somewhat modular, it is quite easy to swap arms between some of the models for variation. The instructions just doesn’t tell you, so experimentation is in order for it to work. 

[Arkhanist]

Haters gonna hate.

 

IMO EtB is the greatest thing for spread the warhammer hobby. They just need to focus more on units with few/none weapon options.

I have no problem with ETB, I think it's a great idea for beginners, especially as the kits get ever more detailed. It's when it's the only option for a unit you need a lot of that it's not so good, because you end up with a lot of clones. You may not mind having the immersion breaking of noticeable repetition, but some of us really do.

 

However, we're discussing the start collecting box. The koptas are ETB I think; the problem there is the forced loadout. The much bigger problem is the boyz and not being able to make all slugga or all shootas - they're not ETB either, just monopose. And it gets worse when you try to make unit sizes bigger of 10. As a potential new ork collector precisely because it's new kits, it's really disappointing to need a lot more boxes and wasted minis to make functional units - and a lot of clones on top for a horde army sucks. The kommando kit, and the many, many multipart primaris units demonstrate it's not an unrealistic ask for a core unit.

 

People are allowed to have a different opinion than you as to what they like without being a 'hater', and calling other frater that is not kind.

[Lexington]

The beast snagga boyz are somewhat modular, it is quite easy to swap arms between some of the models for variation. The instructions just doesn’t tell you, so experimentation is in order for it to work.

The new Orks (of the non-ETB variety, anyway) also have a universal head/neck socket. I’ve been putting Snagga heads on Kommandos, and the fit is perfect.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Lexington

[Zeller]

I got mine today and I have to say the mould lines are so miniscule it's fantastic. Great addition to the regular ladz!

[Mandragola]

Haters gonna hate.

 

IMO EtB is the greatest thing for spread the warhammer hobby. They just need to focus more on units with few/none weapon options.

The people on this forum are hardly "haters" of GW products in general. "Addicts" might be a better term for some of us!

 

But we're entitled to have an opinion about certain kits. I just don't think this one is a useful one to make an ork army with. I've got nothing against easy to build kits but would you really want 20-30 man mobs made up of the same 5 (or 3!) guys repeated?

 

As you say, it does work better for units with fewer options. I've got ETB intercessors mixed in with my full kit guys and you'd only knew if you recognised the kits. Unfortunately these orks look a bit different to the existing models, so they'll stand out if mixed, but they also can't really be used on their own.