What to expect from 9e CSM

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Clearer photos of the chosen sprue are up Warhammer Community: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/31/unboxing-eldritch-omens-chosen-of-chaos-clash-with-the-scouts-of-saim-hann/

 

They seem to confirm the earlier counts by others above in this thread as to how many of each weapon they have.

 

I particularly like the holstered chain swords and bolters - not something I've seen for CSM other than on the old Dark Vengeance chosen models

[Clockworkchris]

The one thing i am seeing is for the shooting options it lines up with the info i was given. 2 pistol/2combis/boltguns.

[Sandviper]

The one thing i am seeing is for the shooting options it lines up with the info i was given. 2 pistol/2combis/boltguns.

Just found this thread and you are my hero with these leaks. Assuming we are looking at like an April/May codex timeline with these other ones ahead of us? 

[Clockworkchris]

 

 

The one thing i am seeing is for the shooting options it lines up with the info i was given. 2 pistol/2combis/boltguns.

Just found this thread and you are my hero with these leaks. Assuming we are looking at like an April/May codex timeline with these other ones ahead of us?

No idea, my source is likely a playtester do he is bot privy to release date information. My guess is that eldar is feb, march is nids and april csm.

[DesuVult]

One issue I do see with accursed weapons is if they are used on terminators as well and power fists are lost.

[She Who Thirsts]

After this talk of 'accursed' weapons, I am even more suspect of the validity of these rumours.  Why would they remove melee weapon options from Chaos Marines, when every space marine book before then has not?

GW has recently gone out their way to provide weapon options to both the Gravis Captain and the Ancient in less than a week from now and we're suppose to believe that Chaos Space Marines will be losing options?

Edited January 31, 2022 by She Who Thirsts

[DesuVult]

After this talk of 'accursed' weapons, I am even more suspect of the validity of these rumours. Why would they remove melee weapon options from Chaos Marines, when every space marine book before then has not?

 

GW has recently gone out their way to provide weapon options to both the Gravis Captain and the Ancient in less than a week from now and we're suppose to believe that Chaos Space Marines will be losing options?

As a beta test for space marine codex 9.5

[Clockworkchris]

After this talk of 'accursed' weapons, I am even more suspect of the validity of these rumours. Why would they remove melee weapon options from Chaos Marines, when every space marine book before then has not?

 

GW has recently gone out their way to provide weapon options to both the Gravis Captain and the Ancient in less than a week from now and we're suppose to believe that Chaos Space Marines will be losing options?

GsC metamorphs had 3 or 4 mutation weapons, now only have 1 that represents all those bits.

 

I believe gsc abbherants have had their weapons streamlined as well.

 

Harlequins kiss/embrace/caress had different profiles and the new eldar codex has them all at the same profile (they get a stragem each to actovate their special ability)

 

This seems to be the way GW want to stresmline this edition.

[Hannibal]

After this talk of 'accursed' weapons, I am even more suspect of the validity of these rumours.  Why would they remove melee weapon options from Chaos Marines, when every space marine book before then has not?

 

GW has never driven just one road through all of a certain edition. There have always been new "ideas" which where invited at a certain time just to be deleted shortly after. That is part of their huge balancing problems.

 

If you look to Age of Sigmar, they made all weapons of of a certain unit do the same. At least in the latest books. So why can´t they do this in 40k, too?

[Verbal Underbelly]

I wouldn't mind the concept of accursed weapons if they didn't physically 'read' as other equipment. Feels like a lazy design choice. Looks like a <chainsword> but it behaves differently depending which power armoured marine is holding it. That's confusing design language.

 

The WarCom article mentions this however:

 

The Chaos contingent is incredibly customisable. These guys can all be built with and without helmets, and with a standard requisition of bolters and chainswords, or with more esoteric gear including lightning claws, chainaxes, combi-weapons, power fists, icons, and much else besides

 

This would suggest the equipment is 'normal' marine CC equipment.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Verbal Underbelly

[She Who Thirsts]

I wouldn't mind the concept of accursed weapons if they didn't physically 'read' as other equipment. Feels like a lazy design choice. Looks like a <chainsword> but it behaves differently depending which power armoured marine is holding it. That's confusing design language.

Yes this.  And what does this mean for all the marine books they printed.

 

Will that mean if another marine book comes out for this edition, that they'll change all the options for Vets in them?  I highly doubt it cos it would not mesh well with any of the supplements printed before it.  You'll have Marine armies with 'power weapons' and other marine armies where they have different options for each type.

 

Also it could easily be argued that the mutations were all lopped in together as one because it was confusing to the opponent what the mutants actually had, same goes for aberrants and Harlequins.  Also changes to their weapons options only effects those squads.  Changing what a power sword/mace/axe/fist and lightning claws does has far larger reaches.

Edited January 31, 2022 by She Who Thirsts

[Clockworkchris]

I wouldn't mind the concept of accursed weapons if they didn't physically 'read' as other equipment. Feels like a lazy design choice. Looks like a <chainsword> but it behaves differently depending which power armoured marine is holding it. That's confusing design language.

 

The WarCom article mentions this however:

 

The Chaos contingent is incredibly customisable. These guys can all be built with and without helmets, and with a standard requisition of bolters and chainswords, or with more esoteric gear including lightning claws, chainaxes, combi-weapons, power fists, icons, and much else besides

 

This would suggest the equipment is 'normal' marine CC equipment.

Now i am not vouching for the validity of the accursed weapons, once again i am just a messenger, but i wouldnt put to much stock into anything the warhammer community team write in those articles. Either because they have been wrong on multiple occasions in the past or for the simple reason that they are not privy to the new codex rules. For all we know this is simply marketing based around the 8e codex, which to me is what makes the most sense.

[Khornestar]

 

I wouldn't mind the concept of accursed weapons if they didn't physically 'read' as other equipment. Feels like a lazy design choice. Looks like a <chainsword> but it behaves differently depending which power armoured marine is holding it. That's confusing design language.

 

The WarCom article mentions this however:

 

The Chaos contingent is incredibly customisable. These guys can all be built with and without helmets, and with a standard requisition of bolters and chainswords, or with more esoteric gear including lightning claws, chainaxes, combi-weapons, power fists, icons, and much else besides

 

This would suggest the equipment is 'normal' marine CC equipment.

Now i am not vouching for the validity of the accursed weapons, once again i am just a messenger, but i wouldnt put to much stock into anything the warhammer community team write in those articles. Either because they have been wrong on multiple occasions in the past or for the simple reason that they are not privy to the new codex rules. For all we know this is simply marketing based around the 8e codex, which to me is what makes the most sense.

 

 

Agreed with the WHC point. For example, when they revealed the box, they said there would be "powerfists" in the box, and there's clearly just the one. Not trying to villify them or whatever but they've been wrong repeatedly.

[techsoldaten]

The one thing i am seeing is for the shooting options it lines up with the info i was given. 2 pistol/2combis/boltguns.

 

If this news is correct, it disappoints. From the standpoint that Chaos are severely outclassed in terms of shooting.

 

Chosen are now mid-range anti-infantry and melee with a mixed load out. They fill the same roll as a CSM squad, except CSM can bring actual specials / heavy weapons. Sure, the extra wound helps, and maybe some of the melee options set them apart. But this doesn't make a big difference for a Chaos army, there are other units that do all that already.

 

By contrast, a Chosen's statline is the same as a Heavy Intercessor. For 28 points, each HI can be equipped with a Hellstorm Bolt Rifle, along with a bolt pistol and grenades. That gun gives you 3 30" S5 AP0 D1 shots, and you can take 10 of them with the same loadout. Playing them as Deathwatch, you can take specialisms that give them full rerolls against most unit types - meaning it's an elite, versatile unit that gets some work done against most things on the tabletop.

 

Chosen would probably be overpriced at 21ppm. Their worth is going to come down to points and interaction with auras / Stratagems. 

[Clockworkchris]

See i disagree, chosen along with daemonic gifts and icons, the third trait that they get for free. I believe they will awesome and the ultimate swiss army unit during list building.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I wouldn't put too much in what their comm team says, they screw up like every other thing they publish on 30k, at least before some of the more recent ones where it looks like the SG team might be more involved with writing them.

[OttoVonAwesome]

One would assume a catch all weapon type like "accursed weapons" wouldn't apply to Power fists or Lightning claws and just the basic one handed melee type weapons. Also I wouldn't worry about limited data sheets in the case of chaos, The sword brethrens kit design with the shoulder capes prevents easy kit bashing so it made sense with them whereas the Chaos kits are all compatible with one another, You buy Havoc's, Marines, Chosen you end up with alot of spares to throw around that simply glue into place. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by OttoVonAwesome

[Khornestar]

This new rumor has certainly shaken up the discussion! And thankfully also bypassed the need to see the data sheet from the box, as it will be outdated once the codex is released.

[Cheex]

Thinking about it, I wonder if the "accursed weapons" thing is simply a playtest term while they finalised the kit? It just seems very strange that even power fists would have the same stats as lightning claws. 

 

I'd be very curious to see whether the Terminator datasheet says. Or Aspiring Champions, for that matter.

 

It could also be one of those little details thrown in to some specific playtest versions so GW can track leaks...

 

That said, it wouldn't be the first time CSM was used to "test the waters" of a new design paradigm, and it certainly would "fix" the problem of kit-set loadouts. Plus, it'd be awesome to be able to model Khorne Chosen with double chainaxes...

[techsoldaten]

See i disagree, chosen along with daemonic gifts and icons, the third trait that they get for free. I believe they will awesome and the ultimate swiss army unit during list building.

 

I'd love to be wrong.

 

To be clear, my concern is over their role in an army. Right now, Chosen are looking like a mid-range anti-infantry unit with decent melee options.

 

Let's say it's a 10-man Black Legion Chosen unit with IoE equipped with Bolt Guns. They have exploding 5s on shooting. That's ~13 x S4 AP-1 D1 shots at 24", double that at 12".

 

While they're more durable than a similarly equipped 10-man CSM squad (which can take the same Icon,) that's still not much better offensively. The same CSM squad could take 2 plasma guns, it sounds like the Chosen could take 4 combi-plasmas.

 

No doubt a couple more plasma shots is definitely an improvement. But is this more than a marginal offensive upgrade? Are the two extra plasma shots going to make them able to take on Dreadnoughts / Venoms / Armigers / Buggies? What other kinds of buffs could make them a better option against elites / heavy support?

 

Not sure. My hope was Chosen would fill the gap between anti-infantry and Obliterator-level shooting. Would need a little more to sell me on them.

[MDops]

Thinking about it, I wonder if the "accursed weapons" thing is simply a playtest term while they finalised the kit? It just seems very strange that even power fists would have the same stats as lightning claws.

 

I'd be very curious to see whether the Terminator datasheet says. Or Aspiring Champions, for that matter.

 

It could also be one of those little details thrown in to some specific playtest versions so GW can track leaks...

 

That said, it wouldn't be the first time CSM was used to "test the waters" of a new design paradigm, and it certainly would "fix" the problem of kit-set loadouts. Plus, it'd be awesome to be able to model Khorne Chosen with double chainaxes...

The other train of thought might be that this is the catchall chaos equivalent of the term power weapon. So in the book might be accursed sword or accursed mail etc

[TempestBlade]

Or the accursed weapons might have an additional rule much like the DG “plague” weapons.

[Prot]

I am not digging this Accursed Weapon thing… I mean why bother with an elaborate kit to just call it a be all/ hot swap weapon? If this is true it’s really disappointing. Since we are told Termies will have a similar load out to Blightlords that mean I’ll stic with Termies. 
 

To me this sounds a lot more like a Possessed Weapon than a Chosen weapon. Chosen were always meant to be a lot more flexible so I really hope this is just flat out wrong. 
 

At first I thought it plausible they are just trying to mimic Primaris design flaws and remove all creativity and options from Chosen… but I don’t think that makes sense. Our “Bladeguard” is Possessed. 

[ApulianAbaddon]

I don't like this rumor at all. After waiting 2 years for being aligned ti marine codex, I don't want Chaos ti be the test benchmark for the new codexes. Also, I don't find it flavourful

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Seems like this is going to come down to points/abilities.  Atm, all we can say is that they ought to be decent at clearing out 2w marines in close combat with some marginal shooting up close.  I would like to see their free special ability broaden their scope.  Stuff like, +1 dmg vs vehicle/monster, obsec, 5++, scout deploy and/or deepstrike, psychic power(s), and so on.