What to expect from 9e CSM

[Clockworkchris]

Seems like this is going to come down to points/abilities. Atm, all we can say is that they ought to be decent at clearing out 2w marines in close combat with some marginal shooting up close. I would like to see their free special ability broaden their scope. Stuff like, +1 dmg vs vehicle/monster, obsec, 5++, scout deploy and/or deepstrike, psychic power(s), and so on.

Yup that build a warband 3rd trait is going to be clutch.

[Khornestar]

 

Seems like this is going to come down to points/abilities. Atm, all we can say is that they ought to be decent at clearing out 2w marines in close combat with some marginal shooting up close. I would like to see their free special ability broaden their scope. Stuff like, +1 dmg vs vehicle/monster, obsec, 5++, scout deploy and/or deepstrike, psychic power(s), and so on.

Yup that build a warband 3rd trait is going to be clutch.

That’s the most interesting potential mechanic so far regarding the unit. Will be fun to see the list of them and figure out a million combos to try.

 

I do see where techsoldaten is coming from, though. I had similar enough thoughts earlier in the thread. Everything hinges on how useful those traits are. It would be extra cool if the bonus rule is selected at the start of the battle.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Khornestar

[Lord Abaia]

I wonder how we are going to visually represent icons on our units. With the retirement of the old CSM kit I don't know where we are going to find the bits for the old icon-on-a-stick style that we used to have.

 

The new CSM kit has an Icon of Vengeance, but as far as I know none of the god specific ones. The WarCom article about Eldritch Omens says that the Chosen kit contains icons. Close inspection of the sprues reveals a few bits that look like they could fit that description, but are much smaller than I had imagined (fist sized maybe).

 

Are we in a post-icon-on-a-stick era? Will Chosen show their devotion with giant belt buckles like some sort of warp swollen cowboys? Maybe icons will transcend WYSIWYG and will be purely a list building consideration.

[Toldavf]

Well night lords with a slanesh banner could be 2+ to hit 2+ to wound vs meq with 40+ attacks, that's not inconsiderable. 

[Clockworkchris]

Well night lords with a slanesh banner could be 2+ to hit 2+ to wound vs meq with 40+ attacks, that's not inconsiderable. 

where are you getting this from, also there is a hard cap on to hit and to wound rolls at 1

[Jings]

Honestly I'm just glad Chosen are retaining the Bolter + Melee weapon set up. Don't give a flying feth if they're now 'accursed weapons', I ran my guys with mostly Power Axes and Chainsword so this, along with the extra attack and TWO wounds, make my 10-man Chosen squad pretty much WYSIWYG from onset so I'm chuffed as can be. 

 

Gonna convert up one final boy for the squad I reckon seeing as there's no indication they can bring a Heavy (which is a bit of a shame) but what the hell, I'll have a guy rocking dual 'accursed weapons' just because it looks gnarly. 

 

Honestly the Chosen news rules and I hope it's true. Between this and the IW rule update, I might actually start playing again. 

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

Is there any actual validity to these rumours of "Armed only with what's in the box" other than what has come from very specific Death Guard/Thousand Sons units and other units such as again, a very specific BT Sword Brethren unit? Is there any validity, or is it all just conjecture? To be honest, this whole stance seems very unlikely to me given that the termie, havoc and marine kits are relatively fresh and reasonably adaptable within each other, at least weapons wise.

 

I also really do not like the idea of this "Accursed Weapon" stance either. And I question it's validity also given the only proof of it that I've seen comes from a change to GSC mutations and a single weapon with three options.

 

If I'm wrong, then I am wrong and will continue to be dissappointed, I don't think I am, but I'm open to see anything proving these points.

[Khornestar]

It's fair to say we don't have a lot of proof right now, and much of the discussion is being had for fun. Not much can be provided until we see leaks of the codex itself. Clockworkchris may have himself a big laugh, but seems legit enough to play around with for the next few months while we sit around waiting.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don't think there's a lot of proof, nor do we have all the context. We're getting drip feeds of what are likely to be playtester rules, or it could be all made up in the end. A ton of this stuff, like Greater Possessed, loadouts, etc. we're going to have to wait for the actual codex to drop before we really have any real idea on what it means. The final codex could be different (see some of the Eldar rumors), and some things may just be abstract in the playtest.

 

Personally, I think a lot of this makes sense. Like with certain factions that needed their situational rules completely redone (Dark Angels for instance), they did turn a bit to the 30k rules. So to me, as my 'marker of trust' so to say, that the Word Bearers rules reflect their 30k ones is a detail that I highly doubt someone yanking my chain would have paid attention to, and is in fact a detail that has puzzled a few people that don't know their 30k rules that much (see even the Auspex Tactics video on it).

 

(Word Bearers get tainted weapons in 30k, likely source of MW and their tactics focus on Sweeping Advances, so charge/HI rule reflects this. Wholly not out of left field for someone that plays them in both systems).

 

Either way, I'm having a blast talking about it all.

Edited February 1, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

Well night lords with a slanesh banner could be 2+ to hit 2+ to wound vs meq with 40+ attacks, that's not inconsiderable. 

where are you getting this from, also there is a hard cap on to hit and to wound rolls at 1

 

I think Brother Toldavf had in mind warp talons with khorne icon -1ap, khorne daemonic gift +1 str, NL doctrine bonus of +1 wound rolls.  That hits on 3s and wounds MEQ on 2s with ap -3.  He may have gotten carried away by giving khornate warp talons a slaanesh icon.  I mean we've all done it.

[Clockworkchris]

Seriously guys I am just as hyped as you guys about these, an would be supremely bummed if these are fake. For right now I just wanted to discuss with people about these since I dont have any csm players in my circles. As WrathoftheLion said, these do seem to be just by the feel of them, as he said the traits so far mirror their 30k couterparts, and some of these rules like the mirroring of doctrine is totally in line with GWs lack of originality (I do like the exploding 6s though). 

 

If these do turn out to be fake I will gladly share screenshots of the conversations to show that I am not trolling you 

 

 

Well night lords with a slanesh banner could be 2+ to hit 2+ to wound vs meq with 40+ attacks, that's not inconsiderable. 

where are you getting this from, also there is a hard cap on to hit and to wound rolls at 1

 

I think Brother Toldavf had in mind warp talons with khorne icon -1ap, khorne daemonic gift +1 str, NL doctrine bonus of +1 wound rolls.  That hits on 3s and wounds MEQ on 2s with ap -3.  He may have gotten carried away by giving khornate warp talons a slaanesh icon.  I mean we've all done it.

 

Warp dust will do that to a mere mortal.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well night lords with a slanesh banner could be 2+ to hit 2+ to wound vs meq with 40+ attacks, that's not inconsiderable.

where are you getting this from, also there is a hard cap on to hit and to wound rolls at 1

I think Brother Toldavf had in mind warp talons with khorne icon -1ap, khorne daemonic gift +1 str, NL doctrine bonus of +1 wound rolls. That hits on 3s and wounds MEQ on 2s with ap -3. He may have gotten carried away by giving khornate warp talons a slaanesh icon. I mean we've all done it.

Warp dust will do that to a mere mortal.

What about night lord chosen with slaanesh icon? That's hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's if the weapons are +1S and NL trait/Votlw type strat, and 40+ attacks if they all get a bonus attack from the weapon. They could have been talking about that?

Edited February 1, 2022 by Putrid Choir

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

I don't think there's a lot of proof, nor do we have all the context. We're getting drip feeds of what are likely to be playtester rules, or it could be all made up in the end. A ton of this stuff, like Greater Possessed, loadouts, etc. we're going to have to wait for the actual codex to drop before we really have any real idea on what it means. The final codex could be different (see some of the Eldar rumors), and some things may just be abstract in the playtest.

 

Personally, I think a lot of this makes sense. Like with certain factions that needed their situational rules completely redone (Dark Angels for instance), they did turn a bit to the 30k rules. So to me, as my 'marker of trust' so to say, that the Word Bearers rules reflect their 30k ones is a detail that I highly doubt someone yanking my chain would have paid attention to, and is in fact a detail that has puzzled a few people that don't know their 30k rules that much (see even the Auspex Tactics video on it).

 

(Word Bearers get tainted weapons in 30k, likely source of MW and their tactics focus on Sweeping Advances, so charge/HI rule reflects this. Wholly not out of left field for someone that plays them in both systems).

 

Either way, I'm having a blast talking about it all.

I get that and don't get me wrong, I'm not getting at anyone here. I just wandered if there was anything a little more concrete. I'm just as up for speculation as the next guy!

Edited February 1, 2022 by Grand_Master_Alpharius

[Verbal Underbelly]

Do we have any information on Noise Marines? Asking for a friend.

 

There seems to be a lot of unit role overlap in the chaos codex, but there again, there always has been. I wonder how chosen and noise marines will function together - they're each reasonable in both the shooting and close combat phases. Will an Emperor's Children detachment prefer to fill out its Troops with basic chaos marines and lean on chosen to do the work? Do we still ignore chosen in favour of terminators? 

 

Finally, are we thinking that in a squad of 10 chosen we're limited to four combi weapons with no option to take "normal" special weapons? I had initially imagined them remaining as a special weapon squad and I know a lot of us here have squads built and painted in this fashion. It's going to be hard to find a place for all these metla gunners we have laying around ay? Unless units of chaos marines will able allowed to take more than two special weapons in a squad of 10. 

[Slave to Darkness]

Just realised who the bald chosen with the derpy face reminds me of, Jason Voorhees as a kid.

http://pm1.narvii.com/6126/05d732c0f633de107093ad6f7513588c33c34c1a_00.jpg

Now I need that head for a Necromunda conversion for my B Movie gang.

+++EDIT+++

Ahh perfect.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Slave to Darkness

[Agrest_IW]

Leak about chosen.

 

Chosen in the box eldritch omens are still at their 8ed codex datasheet (so dont be surprised by 1w and seeing TH as an option)

 

In the new book, their base loadout is boltgun & accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)

 

For every 5 models, can replace 2 boltguns with 2 pistols

 

For every 5 models, can replace 2 boltguns with 2 combis

 

For every 5 models, can replace 1 boltgun for a second accursed weapon.

 

Chosen have been confirmed to me to be ws/bs 3 and 3a base

 

No TH per new rules.

 

I have looked over the sprues of the chosen and this is the things we get:

2 sheathed Chainswords

2 Chainaxes

2 Chainswords

1 Powerfist

1 Poweraxe

1 Powersword

1 Powermaul

Pair of Lightning Claws

2 Combibolters bases with 2xPlasma, 2xMelta and 2xFlamer

2 Bolt pistols

2 Plasma pistols

3 Bolters

2 holstered Bolters

13 heads

11 shoulder pads

So , no options for meltagun plasmagun or one heavy ?

[TrawlingCleaner]

Is there any actual validity to these rumours of "Armed only with what's in the box" other than what has come from very specific Death Guard/Thousand Sons units and other units such as again, a very specific BT Sword Brethren unit? Is there any validity, or is it all just conjecture? To be honest, this whole stance seems very unlikely to me given that the termie, havoc and marine kits are relatively fresh and reasonably adaptable within each other, at least weapons wise.

 

I also really do not like the idea of this "Accursed Weapon" stance either. And I question it's validity also given the only proof of it that I've seen comes from a change to GSC mutations and a single weapon with three options.

 

If I'm wrong, then I am wrong and will continue to be dissappointed, I don't think I am, but I'm open to see anything proving these points.

Unfortunately, Death Guard and Thousand sons aren't the only ones hit with "can only use what's in the box" and this isn't a consistent thing for GW. I imagine it's likely to do with balancing and having too many variable if that specific unit can take whatever they want. If it's balanced to the box contents, I would imagine it's a lot easier.

Units that I can think of that have been hit with the "only box contents":

Plague Marines

Blightlord Terminators

Death Guard Chaos Lord (PA and Termies)

Scarab Occult Terminators

Skittari Vanguard and Rangers

Ork Boys

Ork Meganobz

Drukhari Wyches

Drukhari Kabalites

 

I may have missed some things off but as you can see, this isn't new and won't be surprising if they apply it to Terminators.

 

Of the 2 solutions (fixed loadout vs Accursed weapons/flattening profiles), I personally prefer Accursed weapons. Flatten all the profiles for power weapons to remove the arbitry difference between them and let hobbyist build them with whatever looks cool. The profile itself is better than any of the previous power weapons (except for lightning claws)

That said, I do hope they keep Powerfists as a seperate weapon choice.

 

"Flattening" profiles didn't just happen to Metamorphs, it also applied to: Atalan Jackal ranged weapons, Abherrant Picks and Hammers and Acolyte Knives and Claws. Also the Rumoured changes to 'Quins weapons. This is something that (IMO) needs ot happen to more units across the game but that's definitely a different conversation for a different topic.

Edited February 1, 2022 by TrawlingCleaner

[Vanger]

So, sprues and assembly guide has been lieaked already, but the datasheets were not?

Annoying.

[techsoldaten]

So, sprues and assembly guide has been lieaked already, but the datasheets were not?

 

Annoying.

 

The datasheets were leaked, they are on some image site like giphy.

 

But there are no updates for Chaos units, the only rules changes were for Eldar.

[Clockworkchris]

So look like accursed weapon are chosen/terminator only. Powerfist/chainfist are not accursed weapons they still have their own profile.

 

Chaos lords still have TH.

 

My source says this might change because it is an early copy he has.

 

I am waiting on confirmation for what follows but based on all the information we have now and things like blightlordsnand plague marine loadouts I feel that the terminator datasheet might look something like this:

 

terminator loadouts:

Base loadout, combibolters + accursed weapons

 

For every 5

1 can replace combibolter with autocanon or heavy flamer

 

1 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon

 

3 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist

 

1 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist

 

2 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers

 

2 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi flamers

 

2.can replace combibolters with combi plasma

Edited February 1, 2022 by Clockworkchris

[TheGodOfHammers]

So look like accursed weapon are chosen/terminator only. Powerfist/chainfist are not accursed weapons they still have their own profile.

So Lightning Claws are now Accursed Weapons? If so, that sucks a little, as I'm not sure the Str or AP boost is enough to offset losing the ability to reroll wounds

 

Also, are there any additional benefits for taking 2 Accursed Weapons? Beyond gaining a second additional attack?

Edited February 1, 2022 by TheGodOfHammers

[Clockworkchris]

 

 

So look like accursed weapon are chosen/terminator only. Powerfist/chainfist are not accursed weapons they still have their own profile.

So Lightning Claws are now Accursed Weapons? If so, that sucks a little, as I'm not sure the Str or AP boost is enough to offset losing the ability to reroll wounds

 

Also, are there any additional benefits for taking 2 Accursed Weapons? Beyond gaining a second additional attack?

Only gaining the additional attack for now. I am fully expecting there fo be a strat to apply on accursed weapons. Maybe something like reroll wounds to make all of them better lightning claws for a turn or something to give them all an additional damage.

[Khornestar]

I think it's more than fair, as lightning claws this edition are easily the best choice in most situations. I've never bothered with swords/axes in 9th, and certainly not mauls, I don't think ever across any edition of the game.

 

If I had it my way I'd get rid of the -1 from fists/hammers while we're at it, at least on chaos lords and terminators, but I don't see that happening.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Khornestar

[Prot]

So it's nearly, but not quite, confirmed that no hammers for Chosen? That is a royal bummer. I had that Black Legion dude with the hammer/plasma pistol queued up to be my Chosen 'leader'. 

 

I know these are just rumours but at this point Chosen is looking like a unit I'd skip on right now. Even with a strat, which I'm sure is in the pipeline for them, I just love my Terminators, and although these models look great, Accursed Weapons is just too restrictive to keep me interested. 

 

I'm more interested in the Legion traits, and the strats/Relics/WL Traits they get. It actually looks like it's going to be a very fun and thematic codex based on those rumours. I still can't decide on sticking out BL, or going back to Huron or Crimson Slaughter. Lots of fun options, even the EC look capable and fun.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Prot

[DesuVult]

3 power fists in a 5 man squad with 2 power fists in the box. I should not have expected better.