Unit of the Week: Forgefiend

[Xenith]

++Thousand Sons Unit of the Week++

++Forgefiend++

New codex, new discussions about units! As we already have in other faction sections, I'm starting up a Unit of the Week series for Thousand Sons, where each week we select and dissect a datasheet found in the book, and discuss how we use the unit in-game, favoured loadouts and combos, essentially how to use these units best. What have you found that works, and what doesnt? Please try to stick to the idea of making the unit in question work, as opposed to pointing out other units that might do a better job - we'll get to those in time!

This week, we will be discussing the Forgefiend - we'll get to other units in time as we all unpick the codex and get some games in.

What are you thoughts, and how best would you use the unit?

• To compliment a list, or to build a list around?
  
• Will you be running multiple units?
  
• What <GREAT CULT>, loadouts, spell and Stratagems support do you prefer and how much does it depend on the above choices?
  
• Are you buffing this unit? If so, how?
  
• Uses in Matched, Narrative and Open Play
  
• How have they fared for you in-game?
  

Over to you.

++Thousand Sons Unit of the Week Index Link++

Edited August 23, 2021 by Xenith

[Xenith]

I'm really liking the new profiles for the weapons on these. Initially the Hades seems superior, better range, only 1 less ap for D2, but they're more costly. The Ectoplasma definitely has a place. 

 

Triple Ecto is 155pts and get you ~6shots against a tank for a potential 18 damage, though you'll likely get 4 hits and 1.5 wounds. The Hades gets 8 shots, ~5 hits 4 wounds for maybe 6 damage...before you get to the head cannon, though that clocks in at 175pts. Hard to say really. Both will benefit immensely from he Infernal masters +1S to shooting, and also the AP-1 stratagem. 

 

As TS I think we potentially lack long range anti tank/elite, so I'm favouring the Hades with Ecto head.  

 

A great combo would be getting a twist of fate sorc to remove invuns from a unit before ectofiending them. That would clear out a unit of THSS terms with little issue, something mos other armies would struggle with. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Xenith

[Kobrakei]

I think the triple ecto is the way to go with these - the Hades is fine, but with a lot of stuff having 2 wounds and/or -1 damage strats the 3 damage from the ecto is key. Using the Hades as anti-tank is a trap, 2 damage isn't enough to get it in the right area for this reliably, and I'd assume that anti-tank is an inherent weakness for us. Two triple ecto forgefiends at 310 points is nicely pointed, and gives a decent amount of 3D shooting that'll help bring down light vehicles and elites.

[Trokair]

The Hades do look nice, and probably the better all rounder out of the options.

 

However for antitank I have a quad lascannon Predator, and for anti heavy infantry the ecto seems better. Against Primaris/Gravis the S7 does not actually matter compared to the Hades (on account of Trans Human/T5).   

 

The +1S from the Infernal Master is nice, but I think more important for the ecto as 7 to 8 feels like a more important shift then 8 to 9.

 

So while I have not got one yet, if I do it would be hades for smaller games/when there is no support for it, and ecto for bigger games/when there is support.

[Ahzek451]

Inititally, I wanted to run these with hades and the head as ecto. But this thread is convincing me to run all ecto to save some points and put on the hurt. I would rather see the +1 strength go to this, and the -1ap go to the volkite dread. Personally, I think it's more efficient to spread the buff love than to have something hog it all. Unless, maybe it was a fire raptor hah!

[Prot]

I will say my multiple games with the Hades have been mediocre but I haven’t played it against any vanilla marines except for BA. But Deathguard was frustrating as heck. 
 

I am planning on trying dual Ecto Fiends but I will keep the Dino head because they actually aren’t terrible in CC. 

[Xenith]

I am planning on trying dual Ecto Fiends but I will keep the Dino head because they actually aren’t terrible in CC. 

 

I think CC is best avoided, especially as they can't shoot into combat with the ecto - unlike the hades. It almost gets another 8 S8 attacks. That's the attitude to carnofexes anyway - people consider giving them an acid maw so they have some melee ability with dual devourers, however you're better off just making it great at shooting rather than average at two things. 

[Ahzek451]

 

I am planning on trying dual Ecto Fiends but I will keep the Dino head because they actually aren’t terrible in CC. 

 

I think CC is best avoided, especially as they can't shoot into combat with the ecto - unlike the hades. It almost gets another 8 S8 attacks. That's the attitude to carnofexes anyway - people consider giving them an acid maw so they have some melee ability with dual devourers, however you're better off just making it great at shooting rather than average at two things. 

 

Exactly this, Hence why I tend to go all the way and arm the head with plasma. Still up in the air if I prefer hades or plasma arms but I want to give all plasma a go. The range boost reallllly helps with all the guns. Give this this thing a strength boost to 8 and let r fly!

 

My logic could be off, but the extra point of damage, AP, and potential to get 9 hits, and lower points cost outshines the hades by just a touch. So many damage reducing abilities as well. On average, you are looking at 6 hits vs. 8. I can live with that. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Ahzek451

[Irate Khornate]

I think triple plasma will be better for Thousand Sons, but a more melee oriented faction like WE would likely prefer the Hades autocannons

[Prot]

Ah yes I forgot the Ecto is blast. I just realized this as I was making my list for tonight. Honestly I've only played the Hades version and haven't been too impressed for the point. But I will say the Hades, with the assault style head is actually a good tanky unit for running up the board. I think the Ecto has to be played very differently. Preferably in the back with a bit of babysitting because it can easily be shut right down. The Hades-Fiend can't and would have some punchy ability.

 

I'm running Ecto for the first time tonight. 

 

Sure wish these darn things had Core. I would be a lot better, but on the brightside, the Ritual for adding strength to ranged weapons does work on these units.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Let us know how it goes!