Unit of the Week: Sorcerer & Sorcerer in Terminator Armour

[Xenith]

++Thousand Sons Unit of the Week++

++Sorcerer & Sorcerer in Terminator Armour++

New codex, new discussions about units! As we already have in other faction sections, this is the Thousand Sons Unit of the Week series, where each week we select and dissect a datasheet found in the book, and discuss how we use the unit in-game, favoured loadouts and combos, essentially how to use these units best. What have you found that works, and what doesnt? Please try to stick to the idea of making the unit in question work, as opposed to pointing out other units that might do a better job - we'll get to those in time!

This week, we will be discussing the master of disaster, the Thousand Sons Sorcerer! While not as flexible as the exalted Sorcerer, the humble sorcerer is nevertheless an important tool in our arsenal, with a range of powers and upgrades.

What are you thoughts, and how best would you use the unit?

• To compliment a list, or to build a list around?
  
• Will you be running multiples?
  
• What <GREAT CULT>, loadouts, spell relic and Stratagem support do you prefer and how much does it depend on the above choices?
  
• Are you buffing this unit, and if so, how?
  
• Are you building as a damage dealer or buff-provider?
  
• Uses in Matched, Narrative and Open Play
  
• How have they fared for you in-game?
  

Over to you.

++Thousand Sons Unit of the Week Index Link++

Edited November 8, 2021 by Xenith

[Paladin777]

There's two reasons I can see to take one of these guys. Either you're out of HQ slots and want some more mind bullets, or you want to be able to cast while doing psychic actions.

[Naryn]

Honestly although it's nice to have them taken outside of the force org chart, I already struggle to bring enough troops AND enough casting for everything I want. I haven't really run into a use-case for these guys yet, but I'm sure there is one. Maybe shaving off points if you're not planning on using the extra cast from the exalted? As bad as Shamans are, they feel like a better choice for a throwaway Psychic Action goon.

[Paladin777]

Maybe, but sorcerers can do both a psychic action and psychic power with Loyal Thrall.

[Lucky_Lee]

He's an extra smite and can be used for extra mortal wound output or utility depending on what legion command trait you give him. The Battle-Psyker command trait (2+ WS/BS +1A) is better suited to the Terminator Sorcerer imo. Nothing terribly special about this fella other than he's 90pts and might not take up force org.

[Paladin777]

If you do go for an extra mortal wound battery with one, witch-warrior might be worth a few extra MW throughout the game. Two of them is an extra dead intercessors which would mean it's already gotten more than points back.

[Xenith]

So as the discssion on the sorcerer was pretty limited, I've expanded it to include the TDA sorcerer for this week, instead of making a new thread for it.

 

Since the codex has dropped, Ive been using a TDA sorc, occasionally with the Stave Abominus and battle psyker, to try and kill some stuff - he's usually died fast though. I've since made another TDA sorcerer with combi melta and force axe, with the AP2 probably making him much better in melee, however unable to swap out for the nice staves. 

 

The 'battle psyker' upgrade is a hard sell on the normal sorcerer - the 10pts are probably better invested in upgrading the sorc to an Exalted, however it's an option if you're out of HQ slots. Loyal thrall is ok, but cuts down on the utility of the sorcerer somewhat.

 

I might have a go at running the TDA sorcerer with battle psyker and exalted mutation, then try to get him into combat. 

[GreenPlasma]

Witch Warrior would be quite a desirable effect on a D6 Smite. A bit tricky to make that consistent, though...

[Paladin777]

Witch Warrior would be quite a desirable effect on a D6 Smite. A bit tricky to make that consistent, though...

Witch warrior is probably cheap enough to be worth it on a smite-bot, honestly.

[Paladin777]

For the terminator sorc, I'd love to sometime run one with Battle psyker, exalted mutation, the Stave Abominus, and the Cult of Mutation Warlord Trait that gives mortal wounds out on 6's to wound. Cast Swelled and you've got 14 attacks at S10 that hit on 2's. Chances are you'll get around two couple mortal wounds per combat (meet Mr Melee Volkite!).

 

If you don't mind losing his shooting (and let's face it, he wants to be in combat with his 6W T5), you could also give him a khopesh for harder targets. Those attacks would still be S8.

 

 

Otherwise he's great for dropping down with Scarabs to cast presage on them.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Paladin777

[Tichinde]

Im going to try one with a combi melta, and Incandeum. Drop him 9" away and melt/ burn things.

[Paladin777]

Im going to try one with a combi melta, and Incandeum. Drop him 9" away and melt/ burn things.

That sounds rather potent!

[Tichinde]

I need to check my list but I think he also had battle psyker and suitably offensive powers.

[Xenith]

Im going to try one with a combi melta, and Incandeum. Drop him 9" away and melt/ burn things.

 

I recall in the previous edition that something like 3x Sorcerers in TDA with smite and other powers would actually do more damage to a tank than any of our actual heavy support choices. I assume this might still be the case, but you'd need to crystal over some SOT's to keep them alive! 

[Paladin777]

 

 

Im going to try one with a combi melta, and Incandeum. Drop him 9" away and melt/ burn things.

I recall in the previous edition that something like 3x Sorcerers in TDA with smite and other powers would actually do more damage to a tank than any of our actual heavy support choices. I assume this might still be the case, but you'd need to crystal over some SOT's to keep them alive!

Three TDA sorcerers also costs nearly twice as much as most of our Heavy support choices too though...

[Xenith]

 

 

Im going to try one with a combi melta, and Incandeum. Drop him 9" away and melt/ burn things.

I recall in the previous edition that something like 3x Sorcerers in TDA with smite and other powers would actually do more damage to a tank than any of our actual heavy support choices. I assume this might still be the case, but you'd need to crystal over some SOT's to keep them alive!

Three TDA sorcerers also costs nearly twice as much as most of our Heavy support choices too though...

 

 

Very true. If you go to 2 TDA sorcs, then assuming you can get your spells off, something like deepstrike in then doombolt, malevolent, smite (scroll), firestorm, smite is putting ~12 MW's on a vehicle, followed by 2 melta shots for like 220pts. Warp in some glamoured tzaangor or weavered cultists to keep them safe, or some SOT's.

 

Putting 12 wounds on a leman russ would need like 8 lascannons on average? That's 500+ points of land raider or Hellbrute. Other anti tank choices you're looking at multiples of, so either 2 preds, forgefiends, brutes or vindis, then compare with an equal amount of TDA sorcs. I think the sorcs come out on top each time. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Xenith

[Paladin777]

Wow... dang! Kinda makes me want to retool my TDA sorc with a combi-melta! I've been strongly considering swapping out the staff for an axe already because it just seems like a much stronger choice against almost all targets (no, I didn't run the numbers for the axe... maybe I should and post them to my Exalted Weapons thread).

 

Either that or it's time to finally break down and get some magnets...

Edited November 20, 2021 by Paladin777

[Xenith]

I think the anti tank TDA sorc has just  become even better with the new changes to Leman Russes. Their save has gone from 3+ to 2+, meaning against lascannons they now get a 5+ instead of a 6+, so basically a 5+ invulnerable against AP-3 weapons, on top of all their other stuff. The 6+ >5+ is huge, as this makes them 2x as likely to save a lascannon shot, and instead of 5/6 going through, now only 4/6 go through. May be a small thing, but it all adds up. Naturally MW's dont care. Melta is affected also, as now they get a save against AP-4. 

[dice4thedicegod]

Was just toying with different list ideas and figured that one good use of these is a witch warrior both for better smites but also for improving gaze of hate (moving out to more like 2mw on average, instead of 1 or 2).

 

Thinking that having one of these alongside an athenean scrolls Tzeentch firestorm exalted sorcerer would allow for very easy character sniping (especially when you can always cabal an extra d3mw on top).

Edited December 27, 2021 by dice4thedicegod

[Paladin777]

I ran the numbers and the force axe is indeed significantly better than the force staff against most targets, and the targets it's not as good against it's by an irrelevant amount (specifically targets with T6 or T7). So unless you plan on going with one of the relic staves, use the force axe instead on the TDA sorc! Edited January 5, 2022 by Paladin777