Who here plays 40k cooperatively?

[tangoalphatwo]

This is a cool concept. I like where it’s going. Just my experience…

 

I have to say, none of my friends were ever into the hobby. So, inevitably I found myself playing against myself more often than not. I would try and put some time between turns so I could get a fresh look at the game and not get attached to a single side.

 

Once my oldest son got to the right age, I’ve started playing with him. He’s still 10 and so not great. So I almost view it more as a co-op game rather then a vs game. I often like to go for more narrative thematic games explaining, through very extravagant hand motion and voice acting, why my captain charged his squad of Nobz.

 

Now that my youngest is almost there, we can play a few games of Blackstone fortress, cursed city, or space hulk. I run the bad guys and they each get a hero or two. I enjoy it a lot as it gives us Father/Son time and they get to slay tons of bad guys.

 

On the rare occasion I convince my friends to play. It’s again usually me being some sort of overpowered bad guy and they control what army they think looks cool at the time. It’s I sually Necromunda, kill team, or Warcry as I don’t have enough for multiple 2,000 point armies.

 

So, yeah. I don’t think I ever play competitive Warhammer. It’s always co-op, some sort of narrative, or pure open fun play shenanigans

[Antarius]

Are they in a document? Or are they composed as a discussion post?

At present they're in a word document. But they would fit into a post well enough, I think.

 

I guess homebrew is the right place to put them, I just wondered whether I should put them in this thread for people to see.

[Brother Tyler]

My plan is to start a dedicated topic in the Homegrown Rules forum for my own project, providing a link to that discussion in this discussion. This will keep this discussion focused on the feedback that Inquisitor Eisenhorn is asking for. Mine is developmental, though. If yours is a finished product and doesn't require any revision, you could post it here either as a screenshot or as text. If you think that you might develop it from feedback, however, I recommend following the approach that I'll be using with my own project.

 

If your rules are in a format that is ready to present, you could also make it available via the Downloads section. If it's in a Word document, you might have to .zip it in order to upload it (I can help you with that if you don't have WinZip).

[Antarius]

My plan is to start a dedicated topic in the Homegrown Rules forum for my own project, providing a link to that discussion in this discussion. This will keep this discussion focused on the feedback that Inquisitor Eisenhorn is asking for. Mine is developmental, though. If yours is a finished product and doesn't require any revision, you could post it here either as a screenshot or as text. If you think that you might develop it from feedback, however, I recommend following the approach that I'll be using with my own project.

 

If your rules are in a format that is ready to present, you could also make it available via the Downloads section. If it's in a Word document, you might have to .zip it in order to upload it (I can help you with that if you don't have WinZip).

It would probably benefit from feedback and revision, so I'll post it in the Homegrown Rules forum. Thanks for the explanation (and patience)

 

Edit: I've made the topic now: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373311-experimental-rules-for-co-op-games/?do=findComment&comment=5796031

Edited February 13, 2022 by Antarius

[Brother Tyler]

Although the topic title focuses on the "cooperatively" aspect, I found some interesting bits while reading through The Wargaming Compendium by Henry Hyde (see my review here). One link that might be of particular interest for those of us that are looking into solo wargaming in the Warhammer 40,000 universe is the Lone Warrior website at https://lonewarriorswa.com/. The various sets of rules and other topics covered run the range of settings, but many of the principles that are discussed will be relevant in solo WH40K efforts.

[Warhead01]

I've meant to post a thank you to everyone posting on this topic. It's becoming a nice resource full of very interesting ideas.
I'm working on a Zombies Mod, you may or may not already know. I've never written a game before, nothing like this anyway.  
I do hope to share it when it's actually something playable. It's slow going which is fine as I feel that's actually made me more productive on the actual output rather than just throwing all my ideas out there. I figure it can only get better and easier over the long run. 
It almost seems like a lot of us are all sorta thinking the same kinds of things. Like a collective conciseness kind of thing.  Not really sure what's going on with that but it's very cool. 

 

[Brother Tyler]

Inspired by this discussion, I finally got my hands on a copy of Donald Featherstone's Solo-Wargaming (I got the 1st edition hardback from 1973 because I'm a book snob ). Donald Featherstone was a landmark figure in the growth of tabletop miniature wargaming, and it is certain that he influenced the designers of the Warhammer 40,000 game. There are other more recent books about solo wargaming, but this is considered to be one of the landmark books on the subject. The book provides a lot of interesting ideas that might be incorporated into hobbyists' efforts to create solo and cooperative wargaming opportunities for games in the Warhammer 40,000 setting.

I might summarize some of the ideas that Mr. Featherstone presented in the book, describing how those might be applied to various WH40K games (large formation wargaming such as in Napoleonics and the American Civil War seemed to be more appropriate to the ideas Mr. Featherstone presented).

After reading the book for a bit, I was inspired to develop some solo rules for Space Hulk. It would basically entail developing a generic AI system for the genestealers, with supplements for each of the missions (e.g., random starting positions, randomized entry determination, modifications to the generic AI based on the mission parameters, etc.).

Also, after reading @Warhead01's zombie rules concept, I recalled the original Hive of the Dead scenario I came up with for the 2005 version of the Kill Team game, back in the 4th edition of the Warhammer 40,000 game. That accidentally became a solo game. While the exact rules are now somewhat different, the concept remains valid. I haven't incorporated it into my current Hive of the Dead effort, which is intended to be more of a demo table at conventions. If you'd like to see the original version, you can download it at http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/Tyler/Hive_of_the_Dead_-_Kill_Team_2005.pdf (it's a two-page document). Would other hobbyists that either have solo/co-op rules, or who are interested in developing some, be interested in collecting our various ideas into an e-zine (a la the Legio Imprint)?

[Brother Tyler]

I've posted feelers in the Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis forums to see if any players of those games have ideas.

[Warhead01]

I'd be happy to contribute if my stuff is up to snuff. 

[Brother Tyler]

I just finished reading Solo-Wargaming (see above). The book is of little use to most of us. However, it prompted me to consider continuing work on an article. For the sake of discussion, I'd like to reach a consensus on some terminology.

 

Most of us are comfortable with standard competitive gaming, which features two or more players working against each other (this is pretty much how the vast majority of GW games work). A variant is team gaming where multiple teams of two or more players each are competing against each other.

 

What we're talking about here are three different styles.

 

Cooperative gaming is where all of the players are working together against a common enemy/the game. The various games in the Space Marine Adventures series (Labyrinth of the Necrons, Rise of the Orks, and Doomsday Countdown) fall into this category.

 

Solitaire gaming is where a lone player is playing against the game. While most cooperative games (see above) can be played solitaire, there are also dedicated solitaire games that are designed to be played by a lone player (I can't think of any such GW games off the top of my head).

 

Solo gaming is when a lone player takes a competitive game and plays it alone, controlling both/all sides. Most games are not designed to be played this way, so this is typically an alternate way to play a competitive game.

 

Do those definitions work for everyone?

[Portman]

I play solo 3rd and 8th edition 40k now and then.

 

I basically use Genestealers as the opposition force, using the simple solo rules found in the 1st edition Space Hulk and set up the board with lots of cover. Whilst playing 8th I use the open play cards for some radomness.

 

Genestealers work well as an AI as they have a simple mindset.

 

I've also played several campaigns in space crusade the same way, although I expanded the solo rules a fair bit.

 

It can be done and it can be a lot of fun.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Portman

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

The book is of little use to most of us.

 

Hah!  Thanks for the succinct appraisal; I'll skip that one.  I think getting some common terms defined is a great idea.

 

I feel like Solitaire and Solo aren't sufficiently descriptive of what you mean by them.  To me, Solo/Cooperative better gets across the idea of playing together or alone against a scenario rather than a living opponent, and Solitaire brings to mind playing all sides alone. 

 

Also, what about DM'd games?  I feel like those are a little different, and can be both competitive (a DM as referee),  and cooperative (controlling a narrative, like a neutral opponent).