Leagues of Votann Initial 1st April 2022 reveal, new lore & articles discussion

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

I'm sure there will be some sub-faction that seeks out space hulks for the sole purpose of eradicating Gene stealers.

 

It'll be like the grudge bearers or something. They are on some vengeance crusade. There will probably be a pirate/corsair factions, and then the general traders, mercenaries, and then weaponsmiths or technosmiths.

 

My initial thoughts on the reveal prompted me to think in those terms.

 

Although, having space beserkers/space troll slayers thene would be absolutely amazing.

 

Do you remember the Fantasy Mercenary Unit "Long Drong's Slayer Pirates"?

 

Now a 40k version of those guys would be AMAZING!

 

Rik

That was a dogs of war unit if I recall. When you could purchase mercs for your armies. That would be super dope.

 

I can't wait to see what all goodies they are going to get as an army.

[painting.for.my.sanity]

New WarComm article covering history - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/05/the-saga-of-the-squats-from-space-dwarfs-to-the-leagues-of-votann/ - nothing too concrete in the way of new lore that I can see.

[Guest Triszin]

Gw hinting demiurg are a sub faction of squats!!!

 

Aww yaaa

[phandaal]

Gw hinting demiurg are a sub faction of squats!!!

 

Aww yaaa

 

Looks like they are just saying Demiurg were part of the real-world attempt to figure out what to do with Squats.

[Shinespider]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Demiurg ended up being just another group of Squats. If GW is really invested in the Leagues not just being another Imperial lackey, then having an offshoot of them that joins the T'au would be a good way of establishing that.

 

After all, squats are basically just what happens when humans inhabit high-gravity planets for long enough. (Unless they try to use genetic mods to stave off the shortening, in which case you end up with Ogryns.) This means they should be pretty evenly distributed across the entire galaxy, since high-gravity planets can be anywhere. It stands to reason that there would be plenty of squats who were never a part of the leagues. 

 

Of course, this same logic forces us to accept that there should be plenty of Squats in the Imperium itself, since the great crusade wouldn't have just skipped over any planet whose inhabitants were too short. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Shinespider

[AenarIT]

There's a meta (ie commercial) reason as well: if you retcon Demiurg to be the Tau name for Squats, you suddenly have another part of your customer base who becomes interested and incentivized to buy the new range, to ally them in.

Edited April 5, 2022 by AenarIT

[phandaal]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Demiurg ended up being just another group of Squats. If GW is really invested in the Leagues not just being another Imperial lackey, then having an offshoot of them that joins the T'au would be a good way of establishing that.

 

After all, squats are basically just what happens when humans inhabit high-gravity planets for long enough. (Unless they try to use genetic mods to stave off the shortening, in which case you end up with Ogryns.) This means they should be pretty evenly distributed across the entire galaxy, since high-gravity planets can be anywhere. It stands to reason that there would be plenty of squats who were never a part of the leagues. 

 

Of course, this same logic forces us to accept that there should be plenty of Squats in the Imperium itself, since the great crusade wouldn't have just skipped over any planet whose inhabitants were too short. 

 

Squats were never described as widespread. Supposedly, they lived in a stellar empire near the galactic core and stayed around there. Hence the reason why Jervis was able to say "they all got et" when Tyranids went cruising through the Squats' hood.

 

To each their own, but to me it is more interesting that there could be an alien race that sort of looks and acts like Squats but is not Squats. Having unrelated events and races makes the universe seem larger and more real. Tying all sorts of things in the universe together makes it feel smaller and less real.

[Guest Triszin]

If Squats end up being demiurg I'm fine with.

 

It's been hinted they were the same.

 

I'm just super excited to see the advanced tech/moi

[Petitioner's City]

New WarComm article covering history - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/05/the-saga-of-the-squats-from-space-dwarfs-to-the-leagues-of-votann/ - nothing too concrete in the way of new lore that I can see.

 

And for anyone who ever says WHC staff don't know their stuff, a brilliant article like this - dropping everything from the lovely squat miners of Gang War to land trains and Space Marine and the Army Lists book in 2nd edition - is damn brilliant. It does feel like Wade's style, but Adam, Eddie and the others are deep historians too, so it could have been any of them.

 

Absolutely brilliant.

 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if the Demiurg ended up being just another group of Squats. If GW is really invested in the Leagues not just being another Imperial lackey, then having an offshoot of them that joins the T'au would be a good way of establishing that.

 

After all, squats are basically just what happens when humans inhabit high-gravity planets for long enough. (Unless they try to use genetic mods to stave off the shortening, in which case you end up with Ogryns.) This means they should be pretty evenly distributed across the entire galaxy, since high-gravity planets can be anywhere. It stands to reason that there would be plenty of squats who were never a part of the leagues. 

 

Of course, this same logic forces us to accept that there should be plenty of Squats in the Imperium itself, since the great crusade wouldn't have just skipped over any planet whose inhabitants were too short. 

 

As you say, this is what we had assumed anyway or understood the Demiurg to be - a soft reboot of those wild bikers.

 

 

But also I love the idea of there being many squats across the galaxy!

 

For some context, here are the fluff texts for Grendl and Ragnir:

 

 

Ragnir Gunnstein was born a noble of the Mjolnir Stronghold on its homeworld Valskalf and was destined to have his name written in the sagas of his people. On the eve of his one-hundredth year, however, Ragnir fell into a fratricidal bloodfeud with a brother Hearthguard and was exiled from Mjolnir for all time. As an itinerant wanderer, Gunnstein served as a mercenary under all manner of masters, but after many decades he found himself at the Ring of Selene void docks that orbit Necromunda. There he chose the wrong side of a feud between a House Goliath longshore gang and one of the many fanatical Cargo Cults for the rights to handle cargo passing through the vast zero-g freight halls. Fleeing the ensuring chaos, he was very nearly eatern alive by an Ur-Ghul infestation, before being chased off-station by an angry heretek cult, whose nascent techno-heresy he inadvertently exposed. At that point, Gunnstein decided it was time to retire and so he smuggled himself into Hive Primus and struck out for the underhive, with the intention of setting himself up as a weapons smith to fund what he hied would be a very long and quiet old age. Of course, life rarely turns out as intended and his retirement as proven every bit as eventful as his previous career. Nonetheless he made a comfortable living working with a variety of underhive gangs, his skill at maintaining weapons and his keen sense of honour ensuring his services are ever in high demand. Despite his tatus as a hanger-on, Gunnstein rarely remains at the hideout while his current employers head out to fight, and he is well known for insisting on accompanying his latest comrades into battle. Few ever demand he remain at home, for even in his retirement Gunnstein is more than capable of teaching the youngsters a thing or two about fighting.

 

 

As a banner-jarl in the famed Vega Rams mercenary company, Grendl came to Necromunda with the Rogue Trader Lord Constant Gerrit of the Arcadius dynasty’s guard of honour. But while his liege was entertained in the undreamed-of luxury of Lord Helmawr’s spire-palace, the Abhuman members of his household, including the entire complement of the Vega Rams, were required to remain in the Stranger’s Tower, as they were forbidden to set foot in the hive proper. In some ways, it is fortunate for Grendl that he was not present when the wing of the Helmawr Palace-spire in which Constant Gerrit was being housed was destroyed by a low-yield atomic charge planted by a rival House; yet in others it was unfortunate, for in the subsequent household purge, Grendl was forced to flee, seeking sanctuary in the anonymous squalor of the underhive. Despite the dire circumstances of his coming to Hive Primus, Grendl Grendlsen quickly established a new life, finding gainful employ as a bodyguard to various underhive figures. At length, he earned the right to practice as a sanctioned Bounty Hunter, and now serves any master who will pay his fee. Grendl is famed for protecting his charges from their rivals and subsequently claiming the bounty on the wouldbe assassins’ heads, and so far there has been no shortage of foolhardy rivals eager to test his skills, and his infamous hammer.

 

There was also a Squat in Mike Brooks's excellent Road to Redemption (currently book of the month)

 

 

Zeke’s head was still fuzzy, and he thought he recognised the after-effects of some sort of sedative. There was an urgent thought scrabbling at the sides of his mind, but he couldn’t focus on it, and it swam out of his reach as the crawler rocked. The reason for the rocking became clear as a ruddy, heavily-bearded face came into view, the owner having apparently just climbed on board.

 

‘Hrrm.’ The new arrival made a considering, rumbling noise in his throat, as his dark eyes studied Zeke intently. ‘Welcome back to the land of the living! You’ll keep the arm, though I daresay it’ll smart somewhat.’

 

His voice was deep and resonant, his bushy eyebrows protruded nearly as far forwards as the tip of his bulbous nose, and his face appeared to be much nearer to Zeke’s than the Cholls’ were. Even bearing in mind the fact that House Delaque’s genetics tended towards the taller end of humanity, Zeke’s mildly fogged brain could still draw the obvious conclusion.

 

‘You’re a squat,’ he managed, feeling slightly stupid the moment the words left his mouth.

 

‘Accurately observed!’ the other replied. ‘Grimbjorn Stonefist, at your service.’ Then the bushy eyebrows lowered distrustfully. ‘We’re not going to be having any misunderstandings, are we, friend?’

 

Zeke gaped for a moment. Squats were abhumans, as broad or broader than a regular human, but considerably shorter. Unlike the massive, stupid ogryns or the diminutive, cowardly ratlings, each of which were allowed to serve the Imperium in tightly-prescribed roles, Zeke had heard that squats were somewhat a law unto themselves. They might move through the Imperium making a living as miners, prospectors, mercenaries or bounty hunters, but at the end of the day they were still Emperor-damned mutants, so far as Zeke could see. Surely only those from whom the Emperor had turned His face would have lost their humanity in such a manner?

 

Zeke had never met a squat before. The notion that this heathen mutant staring at him might consider itself to be his equal, or that it might even consider that he owed it his life…

 

But when it came down to it, Zeke was strapped to a crawler, in no condition to defend himself should Stonefist take offence to his righteous indignation, and he needed to be healthy in order to do… something. Something important, the details of which eluded him just at this moment, still numbed by the sedative as he was.

 

‘No misunderstandings here,’ he assured the squat, praying the Emperor would forgive the lie. ‘My head is still a little clouded, that’s all.’

 

 

Prince Reibus, he called himself, and he and his followers had been lurking in the lower levels like a ripperjack in the air ducts. You knew he was there, and you took what precautions you could, but you couldn’t get him out, and you couldn’t always protect your own.

 

Dregs.

 

The heretic, the mutant, and the alien: that was the unholy trinity against whom Zeke had been warned since birth, even before he’d fallen in with Father Infernus. That was the unholy trinity against whom all of the Emperor’s servants were taught they must be vigilant, for they were the canker that would rot away the Imperium from within and without. The Emperor, in His blessed wisdom, had decreed that some of those who appeared to have heretical powers – wyrds, as Zeke knew them – could actually serve Him. Zeke had heard the tales of sanctioned witches, for example, who used their arcane abilities to smite the foes of humanity. Most of those who exhibited such strange gifts, however, were heretics, along with anyone who disputed the Emperor’s divinity, or those who worshipped false gods. They all deserved the heretics’ fate of burning; a fate that Zeke had administered on more than one occasion, in his youth, when the Emperor’s zeal had burned so brightly within him that it had consumed others.

 

Mutants, well, they were another matter. Ogryns and ratlings, perversions of humanity though they were, were stable forms and had been graciously accepted by the Imperium and allowed to perform tasks appropriate to their capabilities, which were limited. Squats, by the mercy of Imperial decree, were not generally burned on sight. And although Zeke knew little of such matters, he had heard of other mutants whose deviances from the blessed human form had been sanctioned by the Emperor Himself in order to serve His purposes. Zeke did not presume to question the judgement of the divine on these matters, although he’d always felt that it was better to be overcautious than over-trusting.

 

Dregs, however, were mutant and heretic rolled into one. Godless monsters, the twisted endgame of a polluted gene pool, they lurked at the edges of underhive society and preyed on the weak or vulnerable. A lone degenerate was little danger except to a child, and a small group could be easily routed by a couple of resolute underhivers with light and weapons, but when present in large numbers they could grow alarmingly and dangerously bold. Sometimes a natural leader would emerge from amongst them, one who was bigger, nastier or smarter than the rest, and who would sharpen the mob’s hate into a weapon and aim it at the hard-working, decent servants of the Emperor trying to live their own lives according to His will.

 

Prince Reibus was one such.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[phandaal]

If Squats end up being demiurg I'm fine with.

 

It's been hinted they were the same.

 

I'm just super excited to see the advanced tech/moi

 

The hinting around Demiurg was that they were a reboot of the Sci-fi Dwarves trope, with aliens as the "Dwarves." Their concept art makes it clear enough that they were not intended to be Squats.

 

Gdubs may pull some Demiurg concepts in to the Squats relaunch though. Being fleet-based, having advanced tech, etc.

[Noserenda]

Demiurg were described as being purple in at least one source though :D I mean its not impossible, and they havent been entirely consistent but right now they are meant to be separate, things can always change though, and ive said a few times Tau need  friends much more than the Imperium does :D 

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

And for anyone who ever says WHC staff don't know their stuff, a brilliant article like this - dropping everything from the lovely squat miners of Gang War to land trains and Space Marine and the Army Lists book in 2nd edition - is damn brilliant. It does feel like Wade's style, but Adam, Eddie and the others are deep historians too, so it could have been any of them.

 

Absolutely brilliant.

 

 

They missed out Chaos Squats. One is not amused... *pouts*

[sitnam]

 

 

If Squats end up being demiurg I'm fine with.

 

It's been hinted they were the same.

 

I'm just super excited to see the advanced tech/moi

The hinting around Demiurg was that they were a reboot of the Sci-fi Dwarves trope, with aliens as the "Dwarves." Their concept art makes it clear enough that they were not intended to be Squats.

 

The WHC article really hints that Demiurg might be squats, and concept art really isn't a definitive piece of evidence. I kind of want Demiurg to stay separate because I want more aliens, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Demiurg end up being a divergent brotherhood of the "Kin"

[phandaal]

 

 

If Squats end up being demiurg I'm fine with.

 

It's been hinted they were the same.

 

I'm just super excited to see the advanced tech/moi

The hinting around Demiurg was that they were a reboot of the Sci-fi Dwarves trope, with aliens as the "Dwarves." Their concept art makes it clear enough that they were not intended to be Squats.

 

The WHC article really hints that Demiurg might be squats, and concept art really isn't a definitive piece of evidence. I kind of want Demiurg to stay separate because I want more aliens, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Demiurg end up being a divergent brotherhood of the "Kin"

 

 

I would not be shocked either, but would also prefer to keep Demiurg separate. Not only because it makes the universe feel bigger, but because it would mean that some Squats are part of the Tau empire and that would feel wrong.

[venyak]

I had had a look on the topic and I think this link has not been posted yet:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/05/the-saga-of-the-squats-from-space-dwarfs-to-the-leagues-of-votann/

 

 

 

A decade after Warhammer 40,000’s second edition, Battlefleet Gothic – a naval game of spacebound fleets – introduced the Demiurg, a mysterious group of void-faring miners and traders. Technologically-advanced industrialists with a grudge against Orks, a number of Demiurg brotherhoods aligned themselves with the T’au Empire, lending their powerful ships to the Air Caste fleets. Were these the Leagues sneaking back into the setting, or a new alien species filling a similar role? We’re still not sure, but the modern edition of Necromunda brought fresh hope for fans of futuristic facial hair. At the end of the ‘10s, the underhive skirmish game introduced two new characters you could add to your gang – and though their design had once again evolved, everyone knew what we were looking at. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by venyak

[Beaky Brigade]

 

I would not be shocked either, but would also prefer to keep Demiurg separate. Not only because it makes the universe feel bigger, but because it would mean that some Squats are part of the Tau empire and that would feel wrong.

 

 

But there are humans part of the Tau Empire and that doesn't invalidate the humans in the Imperium or corrupted by Chaos.

 

[Plague _Lord]

For me the new squats are too tall... I mean if we assume that the guard/cultist models we have now are 180-190cm tall men, then anyone in the imperium of man under 170cm are considered abhumans? What about people from high grav worlds lol... honestly they should be smaller...

[phandaal]

 

 

I would not be shocked either, but would also prefer to keep Demiurg separate. Not only because it makes the universe feel bigger, but because it would mean that some Squats are part of the Tau empire and that would feel wrong.

 

 

But there are humans part of the Tau Empire and that doesn't invalidate the humans in the Imperium or corrupted by Chaos.

 

 

 

What do humans in the Imperium have to do with this?

 

As for Squats - they do not occupy the same part of the galaxy as Tau, and if they follow the "Dwarves in Space" trope, they should not be subservient to any other race. Hence "would feel wrong."

[Jukkiz]

i feel like we´re stuck on the "GWs TM naming scheme" too much again, We get it, it´s weird name but it´s easy to IP to save their warp infused behinds.

I just hope they be abit wackier then most armies, like they used to.

[jaxom]

 

Doing a 'Dixie Flatline' ROM model for Ancestors gives Eldar a reason to look down their noses at these 'mere imitations' of consciousness that some tiny Mon'Keigh venerate as ancestors, despite having no psychic essence... So the AI end up being both 'heretically advanced' from an Imperial perspective, while still being purely technological and therefore not 'real' or in the sense of having warp presence.

 

It would also be a good place to inject some darkness into their lore. Uploaded minds that slowly lose touch with reality, code errors piling up over time, until the 'great' Ancestors in charge may end up going absolute nutters.

 

 

What is interesting is Jervis said Squats actually did sell well. He and the rest of the team just did not think they had a good enough Sci-fi Dwarf archetype and were not enthusiastic enough about Squats to come up with a better version.

 

Yeah, and then I think it was Goodwin who said that short, viking bikers didn't fit the new look of 40k as 2nd edition became Dark Millenium and then 3rd edition. The Necromunda blurbs (thank you, Petitioner's City!) make me think that older style of Kin will still be included in lore as mercenaries and outcasts. The Leagues, proper, will be a new aesthetic, but one with ties to the older one.

 

I wonder if they will be akin to the fantasy dwarves of 8th edition. Amazing shooting / artillery, with strong melee Comp, with the ability to completely shutdown a psychic phase / spell for a CP or a once per game type thing.

 

Or they may push them into the realm of steam punk stunties, giving them great movement and mediocre to good mid range shooting, with anvil units that make them hard to shift off objectives.

 

I'm hoping/thinking it will be slow moving infantry and fast moving light vehicles. A real hammer and anvil play-style. Bike and trikes will probably get an overhaul, new enough to not be silly and fit the new aesthetic, but with features that clearly show a connection to the originals.

[Angry Banana]

For me the new squats are too tall... I mean if we assume that the guard/cultist models we have now are 180-190cm tall men, then anyone in the imperium of man under 170cm are considered abhumans? What about people from high grav worlds lol... honestly they should be smaller...

I’d actually like them barely shorter than a human, maybe a head shorter, but twice the width and twice as dense physically rather than a half height guy.

[quasistellar]

I would really prefer the bike and trike thing just . . . not be a thing anymore.  At least not in the "biker" look that they used to have.

[ThePenitentOne]

I like the idea of bikes and trikes, but I think the aesthetic would need an update, and I think it's coming- GW isn't going to give tractor tires on the bike of their trikes with tiny little tires on the front in 2022... But I think there's a place for bikes and trikes. On a species that's likely to have a lower walking/ charging pace for troops, bikes make a lot of sense. I also liked the old models where the young body guard is driving the trike with the Living Ancestor in the back.

 

And GW has shouted out to Ancestors in some of the Warcom articles- whether they're now AI or not now remains to be seen, but Ancestors do still play a part in the culture.

 

There's a lot of ideas at play, and we'll have to see what they go with. The trailer certainly has a fleet-based deep=space salvage feel; that doesn't quite fit with a planetary concept like bikes and trikes. At the same time, bikes and trikes are a PERFECT tie-in for Ash Wastes, and we have a lot of reasons to suspect they could be an Ash Waste faction. There's the references to heretical technology which has caused people to speculate about Men of Iron and Ancestors as AI.

 

Because it's all new(ish) I'm really looking forward to all the reveals as we move forward.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

I'm hoping/thinking it will be slow moving infantry and fast moving light vehicles. A real hammer and anvil play-style. Bike and trikes will probably get an overhaul, new enough to not be silly and fit the new aesthetic, but with features that clearly show a connection to the originals.

From the look of that clean armor and updated rail gun, I can't see them being a biker horde.

 

The look they give off is too modern sci-fi and less dystopian - ashen wastes. The feel from that one model seems like they will use grav tech, rather than the rundown carbon based vehicles of the Imperium or Orks.

 

I can definitely see them with some gun boats or grav based artillery units, with an updated smooth gyro-styled kit. Who knows.

 

I could definitely see them getting a unit of saboteurs that can deep strike and disrupt back lines, while having exo-suits or siege breakers something based around power axes or thunder hammers.

 

Then again the aesthetic that is given off from the model and artwork may just be different and they do run with a lot of bikes.

 

I'm excited. I've always wanted a space dwarf army. And I really can't wait to see what all they have to offer.

[jaxom]

I could totally see bullet-sleek grav bikes with a slung back, chopper-style seat and handle bars.