Ideas and Hopes for the next Codex

[Orange Knight]

As we know, the Astartes Codex is now starting to show it's age. Many datasheets are scattered outside of the book, FAQs and Erratas are stacked high, and extra rules have been bolted on to try to maintain a competitive state for the army.

 

I've compiled a list of changes and simplifications I would like to see. The next book shouldn't just improve things, it should also simplify and streamline them.

 

Firstly, a bunch of units should be consolidated into a single datasheet. Examples include: Landraider variants, Terminator Variants, Infiltrators and Incursors, Primaris Captains, etc, etc

 

 

Weapon profile updates I would like to see:

 

-Las Cannon damage profile changed to D3+3

-Las Talon damage profile changed to D3+3

-Bolt Carbine changed to Assault 2, AP-2, Damage 2

-Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon profile changed to Heavy 12, Str 6, AP-1, Damage 2

-Macro Plasma Incinerator profile changed to 2D3 shots

-Heavy Laser Destroyer profile changed to Heavy 2, Str 12, Ap-5, Damage D3+6, models wounded by this weapon suffer an additional D3 mortal wounds

 

 

Unit updates I would like to see:

 

-All Marines get an additional attack. Lose the bonus attack in 1st turn of combat.

-Gravis armour confers a 2+ save

-Phobos armour confers a 4+ save. Point reduction on Phobos units.

-Repulsors and Gladiators gain a 2+ save. Movement penalty in damage table is less severe. Machine Spirit rule now negates the ballistic skill penalty when a vehicle has taken damage

-Vehicles can use smoke Launchers without a stratagem. They are single use wargear.

-Grav Tanks can move over (not land on) terrain features. Grav pulse is a rule included on the datasheet and not a stratagem

-Aggressors can advance and shoot without penalty, or advance and charge

-Outriders, Eliminators and Suppressors can be taken in squads of 3-6

 

 

Chapter updates I would like to see:

 

1: Drop the doctrines entirely, and roll specific boosts into each chapter tactic. Each chapter gets 3 perks, and my ideas would be:

 

Ultramarines: Can disengage from combat and shoot, units that don't advance count as having remained stationary, Core units using rapid fire weapons gain an extra point of AP.

 

Imperial Fists: Enemy units don't gain the benefit of cover when IF units shoot at them. Bolt weapons gain an additional automatic hit on a roll of 6. Core units using rapid fire weapons gain an extra point of AP.

 

Salamanders: Units in this army can re roll a single hit roll. Flame weapons automatically hit the maximum number of times, no need to roll. Core units using Heavy weapons gain an extra point of AP.

 

Iron Hands: Units in this army don't lose a wound on a D6 roll of 6. Vehicle models in this army reduce damage suffered by 1 to a minimum of 1 (doesn't stack with other bonuses that reduce damage), Core units using Heavy weapons gain an extra point of AP.

 

Raven Guard: Units more than 18" from enemy count as being in light cover. Units in this army inflict 1 additional damage for any unsaved wound inflicted on a character unit. Core units using Close Combat weapons gain an extra point of AP.

 

 

 

Anyways, these are some of the ideas I have....

[WrathOfTheLion]

I want to see what the Chaos Marine codex looks like first. I've been more into Chaos Space Marines in general, but there seems to be some interesting changes in their book, and I think it'd be reasonable for any SM 2.0 codex to roughly match that (and not have too much more), given how late their book is and how roughly analogous it should be.

 

Normally it wouldn't be as much of a factor, but if it has a bunch of extra stuff Chaos Marines don't have after they had to wait 2 years for their codex, that would be a problem at this point given how long they've had to wait for even their first codex. For the good of the game, my hopes are that it roughly aligns with how that book is.

Edited May 3, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Guest Triszin]

Repulsor executioner, remove transport cap, drop pts by 80.

 

 

Primaris tank chasis

 

Repulsor

Main gun

Secondary gun

Turret gunner

Defense systems (roll the multiple different weapons into one with 2 profiles. One for engagement range, and one for limited range attacks)

[WrathOfTheLion]

Gravis with 2+ I think will be too much, given it's for line troops. It's not elite armor like Terminator armor is, in my mind I see it sort of like MK III vs MK II.

 

I think the big hope a lot of folks want addressed is the vehicles. I have a Repulsor I haven't quite finished for my Deathwing, I'd like to see it worth taking. I don't want to see them like late 8E strong, but at least able to do decent on the table would help. Same with Land Raiders, etc.

[Orange Knight]

I want to see what the Chaos Marine codex looks like first. I've been more into Chaos Space Marines in general, but there seems to be some interesting changes in their book, and I think it'd be reasonable for any SM 2.0 codex to roughly match that (and not have too much more), given how late their book is and how roughly analogous it should be.

 

Normally it wouldn't be as much of a factor, but if it has a bunch of extra stuff Chaos Marines don't have after they had to wait 2 years for their codex, that would be a problem at this point given how long they've had to wait for even their first codex. For the good of the game, my hopes are that it roughly aligns with how that book is.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the Chaos book. Some things will definitely be an indication of what we can expect, but it's also entirety possible that the codex has been ready and waiting for a few years and could be quite different from the 2nd loyalist book.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don't think we should discount it either, as there's been tons of rules seesaw between them. Litanies started out with Dark Apostle prayers, then came to Chaplains. Conversely, doctrines started with SM and are going to CSM. I would highly suspect some new mechanic in Codex: Chaos Space Marines would make the jump to SM. Edited May 3, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Guest Triszin]

If the prevalence of ap stays much the same

 

Gravis going to t5, 2+. Means they live slightly longer.

 

But then I expect to see termies go to t6, w3-4

[Orange Knight]

I don't expect Terminators to gain superior stats to that extent. In the lore they are revered suits with a Crux Terminatus, but the Gravis armour is superior in terms of durability and mobility - It just isn't as rare.

 

I think the current doctrine rules involve too much book keeping on top of all other rules, and the chapter perks can be simplified and kept effectice without them.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I wonder if they'll retain the combat doctrine as -1 AP or whether it will change to something else. Not certain it'll become exploding 6's like CSM have, but I feel like adding an AP isn't as widespread useful.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The current doctrine rules are quite simple. I don’t expect to see them go away.

[Orange Knight]

The current doctrine rules are quite simple. I don’t expect to see them go away.

It's book keeping, they change, sometimes they don't, players have to note them, etc

 

A rule that applies to the army for the entire duration of the game is better. I'm suggesting they improve the Chapter Tactics so they take elements of the doctrines as a standard rule you can rely on from the start of the game to the end.

We can have better rules, that are applied in a more simple and straightforward way.

 

I think the Necrons suffer from this also, but that is another discussion entirely.

[killersquid]

I absolutely hope phobos won't go to a 4+ save, that'll make all those unit unplayable. 

 

I don't mind the doctrine system, it's simple. 

 

I'd like to see bolters get a boost. ap-1 across the board minimum at least, maybe s5 as well. 

 

I would like to see a boost to vehicle survivability. 

[Dark Shepherd]

Assault Cannons need some kind of buff to be relevant again

 

Twin Heavy Bolters need a points drop

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

The current doctrine rules are quite simple. I don’t expect to see them go away.

It's book keeping, they change, sometimes they don't, players have to note them, etc

 

A rule that applies to the army for the entire duration of the game is better. I'm suggesting they improve the Chapter Tactics so they take elements of the doctrines as a standard rule you can rely on from the start of the game to the end.

We can have better rules, that are applied in a more simple and straightforward way.

 

I think the Necrons suffer from this also, but that is another discussion entirely.

 

no one ever complained about them and most were glad to have them as well.

[Orange Knight]

I'm suggesting they are improved by being rolled into the chapter tactic of each chapter. And for them to be available on every turn.

 

People are glad because they offer additional power. I'm suggesting they are streamlined and made better, for use on every turn.

 

This game right now is bloated to the extreme. Rules upon rules, stratagems, faction bonuses that work on one turn but are different on the next. On top of this we have missions that require book keeping on a turn by turn basis.

 

The streamlining should be done to every aspect of 40k, from the factions themselves to the missions, and so on. But this topic in particular is about the codex. I'm not expecting GW to make some grand, sweeping changes, but I'm hoping they do.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t see how they could be any more streamlined seriously. The rules are complex but not nearly as bloated as seventh edition… not even close.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[Orange Knight]

They can definitely be streamlined - it's not hard to do so.

 

But I understand you like them as they are, so we should move on because this particular point is becoming cyclical and fruitless.

[killersquid]

I don't think the game is bloated either, I really enjoy the way the game is, and really appreciate the options and detail (especially in the most recent codexs). Getting the armies to roughly the same power level is the only concern I have. 

 

I would like to see more army of renown support, but I think it'd be cool to have a book dedicated to having a few for each faction, instead of scattered all over the place. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I’d trade advance and shoot for aggressors for shooting in melee. Either make the gun part of the gauntlets pistols or simply put the ability in the datasheet.

 

And as someone whose last game before leaving the hobby was like 4th Ed, the rules are horribly more complicated and bloated than they used to be from my memory, and imho stratagems are one of if not the biggest offender.

As someone who doesn’t have the time or really brain space to memorize all the strats, what they do, and which units they work on from my supp, let alone the main dex, or my guard dex, they just represent bloated pointless rules.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Gravis with 2+ I think will be too much, given it's for line troops. It's not elite armor like Terminator armor is, in my mind I see it sort of like MK III vs MK II.

 

I think the big hope a lot of folks want addressed is the vehicles. I have a Repulsor I haven't quite finished for my Deathwing, I'd like to see it worth taking. I don't want to see them like late 8E strong, but at least able to do decent on the table would help. Same with Land Raiders, etc.

what makes terminator armor special is the invulnerable save.

Artificer armor granted is special, but not nearly as much as TDA.

And this new era is supposed to bring good tech, or at least better tech back into wider use in the imperium, so 2+ gravis armor to me makes more sense.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Assault Cannons need some kind of buff to be relevant again

 

Twin Heavy Bolters need a points drop

probably going to get phased out, either completely or informally by being made noticeably worse than heavy onslaughts.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Terminator armor also has native deep strike which makes it far superior to Gravis along with the built-in invulnerable save. If you are coming back from 4th edition you did not experience the bloat that was 7th edition…. The pages devoted to universal rules is more than the entirety of eighth edition rules. Edited May 3, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Terminator armor also has native deep strike which makes it far superior to Gravis along with the built-in invulnerable save. If you are coming back from 4th edition you did not experience the bloat that was 7th edition…. The pages devoted to universal rules is more than the entirety of eighth edition rules.

that’s pretty bad, but just because 9th isn’t that bad doesn’t mean it’s not bad.

 

I appreciate a few extra rules here and there to communicate the uniqueness of different factions and subfactions, but 2 dozen or more stratagems seems excessive, 4-5 that really highlight a faction’s strengths, and 2-4 more that do the same for a subfaction is all that really seems necessary to me.

 

And as far as gravis, while FoC slot doesn’t necessarily line up 1:1 with fluff role any more the idea that any unit in the elite slot is using wargear that’s just generally available to anyone in the chapter doesn’t seem right. Might not be limited to veterans, but limited to people brothers with certain specialties or career paths sort of like real world militaries. CavScouts aren’t elite in the same sense that SEALs are but they have a career path that provides them some slightly more special gear than a standard grunt would have access to.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Strats are bolt on plus no one is forcing you to use them either.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Strats are bolt on plus no one is forcing you to use them either.

you’re right, but I am at a distinct disadvantage against some one who does use them.

 

I like the concept I just don’t like the execution with how many there are.