Ideas and Hopes for the next Codex

[Medjugorje]

you know what i mean. Their own codex.^^

 

Btw... I played a game against Nids and I would say I perfomed very well but at the same time it was not a question how much better Nids are.

I hope the new codex will make our units more independent from characters. Too often they are not good enough without buffs from charactes which are additional costs.

New codex books have really powerful WL-Traits or stratagems in comparison. There is a WL-Trait for Quins which get +10000 to charge or a stratagem ( for  ONE SINGLE COMMAND POINT) to get +1 to hit AND +1 to wound AND +4 to charge.

 

At last I want to see some point reduction for Marines when their statlines will stay the same.

 

Incursors, Intercessors, Assault INtercessors nad Infiltrators -2

Sword Bretrhen -3

Aggressors -3 

Primaris Bikes -15

all BT Relicbearers -50%

Captains -10

Lieutenants -10

Judiciar -20

Ancient -20

each tank except transports -40

[Medjugorje]

you know what i mean. Their own codex.^^

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

One thing I would like to see is a rework of the doctrine system. I'd prefer it if we choose a doctrine at the start of the game and just stayed in it. They may need to rebalnce them, and/or the super doctrines but the current system works against some chapters. Fist basically have to get work done turn 1 but everyone knows it, so they basically don't have it. On the other hand my chapter, wolves wants to get in, and I have to spend resources if I get an early charge. If all armies worked that way it would be fine but that isn't the case.

[Orange Knight]

One thing I would like to see is a rework of the doctrine system. I'd prefer it if we choose a doctrine at the start of the game and just stayed in it. They may need to rebalnce them, and/or the super doctrines but the current system works against some chapters. Fist basically have to get work done turn 1 but everyone knows it, so they basically don't have it. On the other hand my chapter, wolves wants to get in, and I have to spend resources if I get an early charge. If all armies worked that way it would be fine but that isn't the case.

Agreed. It needs streamlining, and it can simultaneously be made more effective.

[Dark Shepherd]

Devastator for up to first two turns

Can skip ahead to tactical and stay in it if you want

Assault doctrine from turn 2 onwards

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I like the ideal of the doctrines not rotating if we have more control because I think there should be some trade off. They would have to rebalance some things IMO, but I just really think each chapter should be able to maximize its strategy.  If they went that route and gave us more flexibility, I wouldn't mind it depending on what else changed.

[Lemondish]

Deathwatch get to choose the order (it's their 'super doctrine') and while fun it isn't exactly a powerful ability. I see no balance issue if everyone got to do it.

[Dark Shepherd]

They overkilled (Iron Hands) staying in devastator so now you get one turn

 

Tactical you should be able to stay in middle ground

 

Do it like this for Chaos Knights without added bells and whistles except for chapter bonuses with tactical being Doom

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Dark Shepherd

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Deathwatch get to choose the order (it's their 'super doctrine') and while fun it isn't exactly a powerful ability. I see no balance issue if everyone got to do it.

 

Right but the deatwatch ability doesn't have a super doctrine to interact with. For example, an army like Imperial Fists would get a huge buff by selecting devastator doctrine and just staying in it.

  

They overkilled (Iron Hands) staying in devastator so now you get one turn

 

Tactical you should be able to stay in middle ground

 

Do it like this for Chaos Knights without added bells and whistles except for chapter bonuses with tactical being Doom

 

 

 

I don't like the army bonuses that vary based on what turn it is. It just doesn't seem like GW has hit the mark with them. I'd prefer a consistent bonus. 

 

That's my opinion though, though and they can prove me wrong. 

[ShibeKing]

Disregard, someone already made my point.

Edited May 15, 2022 by ShibeKing

[Medjugorje]

Is it possible to say big changes to doctrines ?

[Lemondish]

 

 

Deathwatch get to choose the order (it's their 'super doctrine') and while fun it isn't exactly a powerful ability. I see no balance issue if everyone got to do it.

Right but the deatwatch ability doesn't have a super doctrine to interact with. For example, an army like Imperial Fists would get a huge buff by selecting devastator doctrine and just staying in it.

I'll grant you that this would be true, but I do not think it would be an issue for balancing. This would honestly be like one quick way to take Fists from their sub 35% win rate lol

 

I mean, you can't look at the Fists and think they are close to balanced.

[Dark Shepherd]

 

 

Deathwatch get to choose the order (it's their 'super doctrine') and while fun it isn't exactly a powerful ability. I see no balance issue if everyone got to do it.

Right but the deatwatch ability doesn't have a super doctrine to interact with. For example, an army like Imperial Fists would get a huge buff by selecting devastator doctrine and just staying in it.

They overkilled (Iron Hands) staying in devastator so now you get one turn

 

Tactical you should be able to stay in middle ground

 

Do it like this for Chaos Knights without added bells and whistles except for chapter bonuses with tactical being Doom

 

 

I don't like the army bonuses that vary based on what turn it is. It just doesn't seem like GW has hit the mark with them. I'd prefer a consistent bonus.

 

That's my opinion though, though and they can prove me wrong.

If you can stay in the doctrine you want or get there faster though?

We both play Wolves so we want assault doctrine from Turn 2 : )

Edited May 15, 2022 by Dark Shepherd

[CCE1981]

Something like turn 1 Tactical Doctrine then your choice on turn 2 to move into Devastator or Assault Doctrine. Once you have changed you cannot go back, and you stay in that Doctrine for the rest of the game. Unless a warlord trait or Stratagem lets you change.

[Medjugorje]

I think the current rules are okay but it could be handled out better when 

Davastor Doctrine 1-2

Tactical 2-4

Assault 3+

Except last Doctrine (assault) each doctrine can never be taken more then 2 battlerounds

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

  - snip - 

 

 

If you can stay in the doctrine you want or get there faster though?

We both play Wolves so we want assault doctrine from Turn 2 : )

 

 

I want assault doctrine on turn 1. Pretty much all of the heavy weapons I run are ap -4, and I have about 50ish bolter style shots. So, I don't really get very much benefit out of tactical or devastator. That said I do think some of the ranged chapters may benefit a lot from choosing the doctrine that unlocks their bonus turn 1. For Imperial Fists I think that would probably be a good thing cause they need a lot of help, not as sure about Iron Hands though. Its tougher for me to value how good the other doctrines are for them, so its a blindspot for me.

 

 

Something like turn 1 Tactical Doctrine then your choice on turn 2 to move into Devastator or Assault Doctrine. Once you have changed you cannot go back, and you stay in that Doctrine for the rest of the game. Unless a warlord trait or Stratagem lets you change.

 

I wouldn't mind this if the super doctrines worked differently, but I just think every chapter should be able to benefit from their unique doctrine bonus all game. Its not like wolves need 3 turns to get warmed up or Fists forget how to shot after the first turn.

[phandaal]

Yeah it would be nice if the super doctrines were just on all the time.

 

Also, something for "vanilla" chapters to be able to have super doctrines. Currently you are just gimped to hell if you are not using a supplement alongside the main codex. Maybe a melee, shooting, or mixed set of doctrines people could pick from.

 

Doubt it would get people swapping away from the named supplements but it would be nice to throw people a bone if they just want the main book.

[Medjugorje]

the important thing here is just to make them not OP. Just give a small advantage and the specific Doctrine (Ultarmarines, Blood Angels,...) are just a bit better or each player can choose to take their primogenitor or universal one before the game.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Maybe a new loadout for the impulsor?

A throw back to a no longer supported razorback loadout.

 

Las-talon/plasma incernerator turret.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Let's go all in on wishlisting, alternate weapon upgrade sprue for the hellblaster/intercessor kit like they're doing for 30k. Assault/Rapid Fire/Heavy volkite weapons as an alternate option for hellblasters, along with whatever else.

[Triszin]

Yeah it would be nice if the super doctrines were just on all the time.

 

Also, something for "vanilla" chapters to be able to have super doctrines. Currently you are just gimped to hell if you are not using a supplement alongside the main codex. Maybe a melee, shooting, or mixed set of doctrines people could pick from.

 

Doubt it would get people swapping away from the named supplements but it would be nice to throw people a bone if they just want the main book.

It won't happen, but I'd be for super doctrines always being on.

[TheNewman]

At that point it's not a super doctrine, it's basically just part of your chapter tactic. The only distinction would be that it rolls down to successor chapters that aren't using Inheritors of the Primarch.

[Mike8404]

So before I continue reading through the pages, there's a few things I want to add along with an opinion on Gravis armour.

 

Gravis isn't a Terminator equivalent. If I had to compare it, and I know people won't agree, I'd say it's more akin to a lighter version of Centurion armor than anything else. Primaris terminators are the Heavy Mk X armour Bladeguard wear, no BGV don't wear standard Mark 10. They even have the Crux. It's a heavier armor than the Intercessor Mk X, but not Gravis heavy.

 

Something I'd like to see in the New dex:

More First Born units moved to legends. There are, what, 7 different speeders? Why? We also don't need 9 troop choices. Let us keep our FW options, like Contemptors (which don't have an equivelant), but cut out stuff like Dev squads, Assault squads, Tac squads, Scout squads, the rhino chassis, some Land Raiders, ect. If GW is going to commit to Primaris then they can focus on finishing that range and cutting down on First Born. Personally, I'd like to see a Primaris Spartan based on the Repulsor, but slightly bigger for more transport space. I'd also like to see a heavy MBT, like Primaris Sicarans. But for the most part, as someone who has several thousand points in First Born, I'd like to see the repetitive units legends'd out for book space and for more Primaris units. There's 60% of the Marine range to replace and Primaris have been around for almost 5 years. It's time to start trying to finish the range up.

 

Edit: forgot to add, 30k is doing away with the twin-linked heavy bolters and renaming them as bolt cannons. GW should do the same in 40k. Bolt cannons are straight better imo.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Mike8404

[Mike8404]

I want to have an advance+charge stratagem.

I want new superdoctrines for all Marines which they can change with their own legion specific if they want

I want a much more fair pricepolicy ( Outrider are so stupid overpriced for example )

I want all units with flat unit size of 3 into 3-6 like BGV, Aggressors.

I want new chapter tactics -> an therefore some balanced ( white scars for example have a far too superior one if you compare them with other chapters which is stupid )

I want some negatives for all chapters. I dont want to see BT played as shooty-only Marines

- In case thats a big problem by GW. They just care how some rules work on lists which they think are typically for each faction. They dont think about how its can be used in a whole another direction. I wnat to see White Scars being played with Bikes intead of 3x10 Vanguard Veterans. I want to see davastors in imperial fists, I want to see Phobos in Raven Guard.

If necessary give all Marine chapters 3 traits as chapter tactic but one additional negative one.

 

For example White Scars could get:

a* able to charge even they have fall back in the movementphase

b* able to shot all weapons as they had assault

c* can take outriders as a troop choice and Impulsors are -10 points

** negative: jump packs are +2 points and dreadknoughts dont get the benefit of chapter tactic b

I don't agree with your comment about "I don't want to see BT as shooty only Marines". As a fellow BT player, that's far too restrictive. I'll build my army as I want, I don't think people or more rules bloat should dictate how I do so.

 

Loyalist Marines are, first and foremost, a shooty army. Yes, that includes Space Wolves, Blood Angels, ECT. All Loyalist marines excel at shooting, even if their chapter tactics don't adhere to that. In fact I think you and I have had this discussion before. This is intentional as Loyalists are meant to contrast Traitors who have better melee. I don't want to see us go back to the crap where CSM are just like loyalists, but spiky. Give all LSM buffs to shooting and let CSM keep their buffs for melee. We don't need all the same things as each other, it defeats the purpose of both factions.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Mike8404

[Kallas]

More First Born units moved to legends. There are, what, 7 different speeders? Why? We also don't need 9 troop choices. Let us keep our FW options, like Contemptors (which don't have an equivelant), but cut out stuff like Dev squads, Assault squads, Tac squads, Scout squads, the rhino chassis, some Land Raiders, ect. If GW is going to commit to Primaris then they can focus on finishing that range and cutting down on First Born. Personally, I'd like to see a Primaris Spartan based on the Repulsor, but slightly bigger for more transport space. I'd also like to see a heavy MBT, like Primaris Sicarans. But for the most part, as someone who has several thousand points in First Born, I'd like to see the repetitive units legends'd out for book space and for more Primaris units. There's 60% of the Marine range to replace and Primaris have been around for almost 5 years. It's time to start trying to finish the range up.

 

Cool, so just screw all of the people who prefer Firstborn? How about no?

 

Either combine the ranges properly, or Primaris can sod off, how about that?

 

Edit: To clarify a little: how are Devastators "repetitive", but not Hellblasters? One is flexible and provides multiple options; the other literally takes up the exact same design space but is only there because "New! Buy now!"

Edited May 20, 2022 by Kallas