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New Chaos Armies I'm Considering +Added Pics!+


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Posted (edited)

So I don't want to muddy the existing CSM thread up with my own greedy moment here, so please indulge me....

 

I am done with Black Legion now so I am moving on to a new Chaos force with this release. In no specific order I'm looking at these:

 

So for the new Codex I am considering revisitng a few older armies I've done, and starting from scratch:

 

 

Red corsairs

  • Charge if they advanced
  • Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
  • wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap

 

IW

  • Ignores cover
  • Reduce ap1/2 by 1
  • Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

 

Emperor's children

  • Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
  • Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
  • wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
  • Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)
  •  

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

My thinking and  reasoning on these.....

 

Red Corsairs:

- Fluff: Background has always been very attractive to me. The army has always appealed to me because I love how Huron was written, even back in the "Into the Maelstrom" days. (He was written like Abaddon is now, except... before Abaddon. (Abaddon used to be written like a school yard bully)).

 

- Hobby: I like that it's not yet another black army for me to paint. Huron is a decent model (i sense he will be replaced?) and the army hobby aspects allow for almost any unit you can imagine to be included. Red/Black/Gold is fun to paint, nice contrasts. I haven't done the army in about 3-4 years. I've improved a bit since then.

 

- Playstyle: I play White Scars. Unfortunately these guys are White Scars on paper.  The Super Doctrine looks suspect. AP on Bolters/Plasma/Lascannons/missiles is kind of paltry for a turn of the game? The army looks to assault -early-, just like White Scars, so this is a head shaker for me.

 

 

Iron Warriors:

- Fluff:  Iron Warriors are one of my favorite of the old Legions. Always loved Perturabo and had so many fond memories of talking to Pete Haines through those old online campaigns, and even Graham McNeil (through Pete Haines). To this day I think Storm of Iron might be my favourite McNeil piece. Love the background, and it continued to get good with Perturabo  somewhat shunned by Horus on Terra at this point in the Heresy series.

 

- Hobby: This is the sticking point. I have, in my lifetime, painted 10,000 + points of Iron Warriors. Granted the last of which was over 5-6 years ago! But I would like to think my newer skills in doing rustic/beaten/weathered metallics could make this army look more interesting..... ???

 

- Playstyle: Cool rules to me. I love the bizarre shooty units Chaos has. In a way I view the Iron Warriors playstyle as.... anti-chaos if there is such a thing. I love the new Techpriest, Termies are gold for me, the newer-ish Oblits are great, Havocs are awesome. But tank models are blah, and the Venom crawler is the only one that appeals to me (I do own two new forgefiends but they were kinda blah). 

NOTE: Solid rules but the AoC rules make -1 AP reduction a little redundant (perhaps they get no reroll on wounds instead??) Also no Cover is very good in this edition to me, especially with AoC. How about that Super Doctrine of getting +1 to wound against vehicles/bulidings/units in cover? That's like a basic VotLW.

 

Emperor's Children:

- Fluff: Not my favourite stuff here, but aside from being incredibly hedonistic, what is their identity? Basically Lucius the Eternal? 

 

- Hobby: I find the sexual stuff never worked for me. I'd rather work the Lucius angle of seeking perfection through the blade, and the army look is something I've never done... Purple and gold.  Noise Marines could be fun to make, granted they need some form of improvement though.

 

- Playstyle: I do love close combat. Red Corsairs may get there faster and be akin to White Scars, but I'd put Emperor's Children closer to Space Wolves. Betting hitting statistics and double exploding 6's in the (melee) super doctrine.  Although it is extremely hard to put 'hammers' into a CSM army, there has to be an angle for this.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

So that's where I'm at. I may post some test figs. 

 

And please, if anyone can add to the rumoured rules, or anything I've missed, please fill in the blank. Comments appreciated.

 

I will probably fire up a test Red Corsair using a newer method, and perhaps an Iron Warrior model. You never know, I may do one IW and get really bored of the metallic stuff.

 

The outlier for me was Crimson Slaughter. I did them when they first came out, but GW just about abolished them with a horrible book towards the end of 6th ed (I think). The characters really don't seem to have any life right now, and the chapter seems dead, but the renegade rules aren't bad.

 

Again, any feedback would be great. I'll see if I can fit a test fig in or two.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Prot
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Emperor's Children have an excellent variety of miniatures (either 3D designs, alternative models range, or forgeworld 30K stuff), and their paint scheme (purple and gold if you go the 30k fashion way) is really fun and interesting.

 

Regarding fluff, I think the sexual aspect is just a way to push things a little "harder", but their main trait, for me, is the pride / hubris madness ; I guess some naitve english speaker will develop it better than I would ever do, so I'll stop there about it ^^ ...

 

The noise marines arsenal used to be good, and Chris confirmed that it should stay efficient in 9th. The Legion trait and Doctrine look very strong ; what else to do you need to join the club ;) ?

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Posted (edited)

Typed this while Jorgend Lupus was typing his - I think he said it well but still wanted to extrapolate a little.

 

Purple and gold do look nice, though if you go Emperor's Children I'll spend most of my time on here lamenting how much better your painting is than mine. :tongue.:

 

Though, I'm not sure how canon the purple and gold scheme is for 40K EC - I had thought those were the preheresy colours and their colour scheme is now pink and black.  At least I approached my army from that perspective, feeling I needed to come up with a reason why they used the preheresy colours (more on that below).

 

I think there is a lot more scope to EC than just hedonism - and the perfection angle has a lot more scope than just "of the blade".  For my own EC, they began as a bunch of loyalist marines (various undetermined chapters, but relatively small groups of each) who attempted to successfully wage a war against invading orks but were repeatedly thwarted by the incompetent and hedonistic sector leadership.  Their path to damnation began when they replaced said leadership through a coup, then sought to bring the disparate imperial factions under their own leadership to fight the orks in a more effective and efficient fashion.  As the 40K setting never lets a good deed go unpunished, this led to direct conflict with Imperial forces and their spiral to chaos.  It was only further down the path to damnation that, after freeing a EC demon prince entrapped since when the heresy forces fled to the eye of terror, they adopted the colours of the demon prince's legion as their own.  So, their flaw was perfection was in warcraft generally than in individual martial prowess.

 

Anyway, sorry to derail your thread, but I think their is more space for an EC force than just "lecherous" or "prideful swordmanship".

 

I would be wary in basing your decision too much on the rumoured rules, given the uncertainty that those are actually the rules that will be in the new codex (even if they are legitimate, which I personally believe they are, they aren't necessarily accurate either due to their not being the most recent iteration of the rules or through the game of telephone though which they have reached us).  Rather, I would chose your force based on the colours and/or units you want to paint.

 

Probably the safest bet would be to paint either your own warband colours, or one of the lesser warbands such as the Scourged or the Brass whatevers (the khornate ones who like demon engines) - that way you have the broadest range of choices when the codex hits in that you can choose an existing legion to make them an offshoot of without being restricted as to what legion that might be, or you can "build your own" using whatever the system is for selecting your own warband traits.

Edited by Dr_Ruminahui
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EC are about the unbridled love of battle. These guys absolutely crave the rush from mortal danger, the pain of battle , the satisfaction of besting their enemies. They also delight in the misery of others, especially eldar.

 

Anyways... have you considered a custom warband based off of fallen loyalists? How about space wolves that worship khorne? You could mix SW bits with the csm kit and paint them an angry red.

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Thanks for asking, Brother, and good points from everyone.  It happens I've seriously considered these 3 Legions, I was even thinking of EC for HH 2.0.  I'm just sharing my notes.  I'm also considering things you guys mentioned to help shape my own ideas, especially with the new Armour of Contempt meta.

 

 

+++ Red Corsairs +++

 

 

My Crux: I go off the (iirc) 2nd ed fluff where Red Corsairs are the catch-all for Renegade Marines that turned AFTER the Heresy.

 

I think we have different takes, that's great because we're comparing notes.  I think back to 2nd ed where Red Corsairs were just Marines that Went Rogue, painting Red Xs over their old Chapter symbols, Traitors without being Heretics as they might not necessarily worshiping Chaos.

 

In the post-8th narrative setting, I imagine it's Firstborn Marines who resented the Primaris.  This does not reflect my personal views, it's not Primaris-bashing from me (I prefer the new Mk VIs because they're awesome, but I actually quite like most of the Primaris range).  Rather, it's about Firstborn that never accepted the Primarch's Gift OR a Chapter who did accept them, started promoting Primaris over long-serving Firstborn to show solidarity, and just a Company of Firstborn decided that rather than being "left behind" they would go away.

 

The new Mk VI Beakies, with their improved proportions, keep bringing me wanting to do a Firstborn army.  But this is just my take and, if the new Codex has like those custom Successor Tactics, I'll just go for that instead.  So I'm really taking the original theme of Red Corsairs as post-Heresy Traitors, probably not what you're going for.

 

 

+++ Iron Warriors +++

 

 

My Crux - A forgotten garrison of Iron Warriors that, over 10,000 years, started integrating a lot with the (Dark) Mechanicum.

 

I've long played with this idea of how the Mechanicum/-us merging with other cultures, which I know is heresy, but I always thought it'd be a really cool project.  To illustrate with an Imperial counter-point, something like a Sororitas Order on a Forgeworld that, just because they live together, start adopting each other's habits...literally.  Like the Sisters would already be wearing red robes, but then they started adding the white cog patterns to the hems.

 

It'd be even easier to execute that idea with Iron Warriors, of all people.  They'd have served with their Legion for, what, 200 years, if that?  Then they lived with the Dark Mechanicum for 10,000.  If I were to do a Dark Mechanicum force, I'd probably use the Iron Warriors rules for count-as, but I think it's more interesting to explore something that combines Mechanicum and Legionnaire elements, for real.  The engineering of the Mechanicum with the fighting techniques of the Astartes complementing each other.  The Lord Discordant is pretty much an example of that tbh, but I'd like to see a whole force that kinda adopted that philosophy.

 

You've got 10,000 points of IW, so maybe this project would represent a newly re-united sect of your Warband that's gone a little too far Mechanicum, they started using too many of those new Oblits, trying to fuse Daemon Engines with Astartes.  All the other IW are kinda stand-offish like "You guys went native with the Mechanicum," but can't deny their effectiveness and, at the end of the day, they still share the brotherhood of Iron Within.

 

 

+++ Emperor's Children +++

 

 

My Crux: One day I just did this anime, falsetto Fulgrim impression, "Oh~hohohohoho...perFECtionnn!"  It got the biggest pop.

 

So this is a personal thing, but I found nobody cares if you made the most grimdark, awesome narrative army, but they'll love it if you make them laugh.  People remember my Orkdeptus Mekanicus Mekboy who pretends to be a Techpriest over my actual Mechanicum army even though I used him like in 2 games.  They'll even like bitter gallows humour.

 

For a long time I was contemplating a Heretic Astartes project, I was delving into HH novels I had skipped to learn more, like I read the Buried Dagger to understand more about the Death Guard on Barbaros, came up with this Death Guard warband whose symbol was the Bitter Cup from like a Wagner opera based on Mortarion's drinking ritual, SO MUCH LORE, and people were like, "Oh, that's nice."

 

Then we played Warhammer Munchkin, there was a "You Just Activated My Trap Card" moment with a Daemonette or something and I was subconsciously possessed by Slaanesh and blurted out a high-pitched anime lady laugh, "Oh~hohohohoho," and it was just kinda hanging there, so I ended with, "perfection."  Everyone exploded, one of my Warhammer friend's was like "that's it!  Emperor's Children!  That's what you should do!"

 

The thing was it isn't even Emperor's Children.  It's like the anime bishonen handsome boy Pretty Marine...except in the backdrop of the grimdark 40k universe, which makes them look even more otherworldly.  The key figure there would be the Sigvald the Magnificent Age of Sigmar mini painted in Emperor's Children livery, whom my friends already dubbed Fulgrim Junior and I haven't even bought the model yet.

 

Brother Prot, you're looking for their identity.  What I found isn't their hedonism, their sex/drugs/rock & roll, it's what the Picard show meme described as "sheer cussing hubris."  Remember, the original Terran Emperor's Children were all European princes.  This is a painting project, these guys show up to battle just to be seen, every time they roll an Exploding 6 they'll go "perFECtionnn!"

 

 

+++++

 

 

Just sharing notes, not so serious, but I am sincere in these, because I think they're fun.

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I'm have an Iron Warriors army and am looking to build a small Red Corsairs army and I absolutely love both for fluff and gameplay reasons. My bias would be with them, however if you're worried about fluff for EC as others have pointed out, Slaanesh is about excess and pleasure not explicitly about Sex.

Personally, EC armies centered around ideals of perfecting the art of War and the excess of perfection is a lot more interesting than just Sex and Debauchery (as well as making more lore sense, they're soldiers who generally only think about war).

 

Gameplay wise, EC have been one of the last pillars of competitive edge CSM have left for the last few years and by the looks of the new rules, they seem to be very good still :thumbsup:

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always fun when you starting a new army
dont forget that CSM will always be an aggresive army no matter who you choose 

from the rules we know untill now (if everything 100% ofc we will know soon)
its seems like:
Red Crosairs- fastes to the prey
Emperor childrens- brutal in melee+ noise marines
IW-best on suriving on obj 
all of them seem fun tbh
 

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In anticipation of the new chaos dex I've chosen Iron Warriors as my 2nd chaos marine army (after deathguard). What did I base my choice on?

1. Silver and gold in a grimdark version look amazing

2. I can focus on daemon engines, which I like the aesthetic of.

3. My dream was to make a mix of legion/daemons/mortals. While my 1st pick was going to be Word Bearers, since I allready had a few units of old marins painted in WB colours, I actually thought I could pull off the image of only a few actualy marines leading the force with Iron warriors. With IW I don't actually have to field basic marines for the force to feel fluffy - I can run purely havocs, obliterators and terminators to fill the marine part, while the rest will be hordes of cultists and maybe some summoned daemons - both of which the IW love to send in waves to waste enemy ammunition.

4. Obliterators

5. Overwhelming firepower.

 

Now if the new codex let's us take a daemon detachment, a'la Harlequins, without breaking the legion rules, then I will be blissfull!

 

I remember you used to play deathguard... how about going for The Purge with a nurgle-heavy influence?

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Posted (edited)
*Mashes Red Corsairs button.* THE renegade CSM kingpins. The idea of not leaning into the chaos aspect is less interesting to me personally, but if that’s your jam I still suggest going in this direction above the two legions. Edited by Khornestar
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As someone who is currently waffling between painting my pile of unpainted plastic heretics as either Red Corsairs or my own custom renegade chapter, for me it's going to come down to (1) if Huron gets a new model/how cool it is, (2) if I can successfully hype myself up about the faction when I read the new Huron book, (3) seeing the rest of their rules when the codex is out in entirety.
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I have IW. I have more painted and done than I will ever use in a game short of the biggest Apoc game. I havent even used them in 9th which given the out of game events that have occurred since 9th came out and the large numbers of armies I have, shouldnt be too surprising. I am looking at Emperors Children since I already have quite a few painted in their true bright pink and black standard legion color scheme. Purple is for wannabees. 

 

IW will be tough. You can do some really cool theming with them building a troop horde backed up by Daemon engines and/or Oblits and having them as a Siege Breaker army. You can go hog wild with havoks and heavy weapons and build a gun line. I have played them as loyalists with no units with mutations or daemon engines as if they are straight out of Paramar complete with Shatterblade in command. Im all about the theming.

 

EC I have always loved since I saw my first Noise Marines painted up like they just opened an 80s Van Halen concert. They were not really viable for me as the later noise marines just looked dumb and the following metal upgrade kit was decent but hard to get, the Noise Marine anniversary figure was awesome and I have two but very pricy to even build a monopose  squad. Enter 3D printing, there are some really cool files out there and they match my idea of EC marines being all about looking good and rocking out. Granted we only have the playtest rules right now which are missing key things but thats the direction I am leaning and was leaning into when I heard about the terminator nerf(you know, right after I buy and start converting 3 boxes of terminators).

 

Most importantly, just go with whatever paint scheme you want to paint. I have noticed that my brighter more vivid armies get far more compliments and "holy craps" than my better painted darker or more realistic armies with massive weathering and camo schemes. Go figure. Almost every army has short cuts to painting it that you can generally find by doing a search on youtube for "Speed painting X" or you can drive yourself nuts by following Juan Hidalgo's heavy metal painting guides, which are phenomenal for individual models.

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Wow.... there is a ridiculous amount of great feedback and thoughts here....

 

I'd read a comment and lean one way, and then read another and lean differently. lol

 

Thanks so much for all the well thought out responses. I do think adding World Eaters "officially' today is a possibility as I really loved Daemonkin and still have a lot of those models, BUT it's not a given because one thing that turned me off of Thousand Sons is just the lack of unit diversity available. (You can only have so much fun with a limited amount of codex entries).

 

Anyway I think the EC might be something I skip, unless I see new models; Noise Marine models for sure. I've had and painted the old ones, and I just think regardless of how the rules turn out, I'm too much into the painting aesthetic to actually get into those wicked old models (even though I did enjoy the look of opening for Van Halen back in the 80's... but that was a long time ago.)

 

 

Hobbywise this rings very true to me:

 

 

Most importantly, just go with whatever paint scheme you want to paint. I have noticed that my brighter more vivid armies get far more compliments and "holy craps" than my better painted darker or more realistic armies with massive weathering and camo schemes. Go figure. Almost every army has short cuts to painting it that you can generally find by doing a search on youtube for "Speed painting X" or you can drive yourself nuts by following Juan Hidalgo's heavy metal painting guides, which are phenomenal for individual models.

 

I don't know if you've seen much of my stuff, but I've painted and played a LOT of armies. More than anyone I've ever met to be honest. I pride myself on getting an army done, and on the table. The great looking single model aspect of the hobby no longer appeals to me. I love playing, and my painting is still my favourite part of the hobby, however, I love having finished models. Every army I've done to a minimum 2K fully painted before I take it to a tournament. And I've probably sold 10 such armies in the past 5 years. (Maybe more)

 

But I do agree I can spend a gob of time on a grimy war torn Grimdark figure, and people never give it the respect that they do something that pops a bit more. I am starting Space Wolves as a side army, and I've shown pictures/models to multiple people and they can't see the work.... the Wolves (I've done grimdark-ish and even shown some pics on the BnC) have got a very 'meh' response. And that's how I'd do Iron Warriors.

 

So to a degree I confess this pushes me more towards Corsairs. I believe I can make them pop a bit. But playstyle wise, those IW's still intrigue me. They'll always be my first! 

 

Again, so many great responses. Thank you.

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Posted (edited)

 

But I do agree I can spend a gob of time on a grimy war torn Grimdark figure, and people never give it the respect that they do something that pops a bit more. I am starting Space Wolves as a side army, and I've shown pictures/models to multiple people and they can't see the work.... the Wolves (I've done grimdark-ish and even shown some pics on the BnC) have got a very 'meh' response. And that's how I'd do Iron Warriors.

 

Maybe the response you got has also something to do with how Space Wolves are viewed. They're one of the more fantastical and heroic factions out there. Either way, a grungy, mid-siege IW army has its own appeal, and while not as much of an eye-catcher, it's something that complements their background very well.

Just picture it: dirt-cacked, industrial looking armor on muddy bases, adorned with chemical spills and spent case shells. Maybe even some rusty tank traps and barbed wire on the larger bases. Then again, I'm biased. I like me some good, drab looking Krieg, Nurgle and blanchitsu style minis.

 

And since you're not sold on tanks and daemon engines, maybe consider some forge world Dreads (Contemptors, Deredeos and Leviathans) instead. They fit a shooty IW army nicely.

Edited by Lay
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Posted (edited)

Out of the three in the op, I'd suggest red coursairs. There are rumors huron's getting a cool new model (though his absence ftom today's preview suggests it mught be further out than we might have hoped), and they're a fun faction with a striking color scheme that gets a fair bit of stage time in the lore. They're also one of the more typical csm factions, meaning they make ample use of all the different unit types available in the csm book. This lets you be fluffy while fielding whichever units you think look cool or play well, and the official models fit with the red corsair aesthetic right out of the box.

 

By comparison, Iron Warriors were saddled with this unfortunate 'cybernetics in place of mutations' and 'no flesh only steel' characterization back in 3rd edition that GW has since pulled back from but that purists still cling to. If you latch onto that, as many IW players seem to, then almost none of the 40k csm line fits them, including most of the deamon engines. You can use 30k models as the basis for your infantry, but that only goes so far.

 

As for emperor's children, they're not getting a stand alone codex now, but you know it's coming eventually, and if you look at the treatment thousand sons and death guard got, I mean, maybe I'm weird in that armies take me years to get together in the first place so I need them to be playable for decades after I'm done to be worth the bother, but yeah. Much of an emperor's children army built from the csm codex today won't be playable anymore when they do get their own books, while the stuff that sticks around will have fancy new model kits full of bespoke details & new options that you'll likely want to get anyway. I personally couldn't bring myself to start an army that I knew I'd be pretty much entirely replacing one day, even if that day is still a few years away.

 

 

Red Corsairs, Black Legion, Word Bearers, Homebrew Warband, Thousand Sons, Death Guard. Those are imo the Legions to start today. Legions that either have bespoke models or who openly embrace chaos in all its glorious monstrocity.

 

For the record, alpha legion don't make my cut due to their own anti chaos sentiment, albeit less than iron warriors, and impersonation of loyalists being harder and harder to imagine as the csm and sm lines drift progressively farther apart. Night lords on the other hand would be high on my recommended list except they're all about bikes & jump units but supposedly have no bike & jump heroes to go with them in the new book. If I were a NL player, I'd be livid.

 

 

That's all imo of course. The most important part of army selection is to follow your heart. This hobby costs too much time & money to listen to anyone else.

Edited by Sception
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But playstyle wise, those IW's still intrigue me. They'll always be my first!

 

If what's keeping you down on Iron Warriors is the color scheme and having done a fair number of them before, why not start a sub-faction that uses their rules? Like the Steel Brethren? Or something new! Blend your two main ideas and make a piratical Iron Warriors warband who have filled their ranks with various other renegades to keep their numbers up.

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Posted (edited)

Iron Warriors or Red Corsairs would be very cool. I'm currently doing Red Corsairs to add as another faction, alongside my Word Bearers and some Black Legion.

 

I personally would be hesitant to do Emperor's Children proper before they get a Codex. You could always just play them as a renegade warband, but there's obviously the lack of a recent Noise Marine kit. On top of that, even if you know better, you might still be kind of disappointed if not much quite works right when Codex: Emperor's Children comes out. That might be best avoided at this point I'd think? That's my opinion there.

Edited by WrathOfTheLion
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But I do agree I can spend a gob of time on a grimy war torn Grimdark figure, and people never give it the respect that they do something that pops a bit more. I am starting Space Wolves as a side army, and I've shown pictures/models to multiple people and they can't see the work.... the Wolves (I've done grimdark-ish and even shown some pics on the BnC) have got a very 'meh' response. And that's how I'd do Iron Warriors.

Maybe the response you got has also something to do with how Space Wolves are viewed. They're one of the more fantastical and heroic factions out there. Either way, a grungy, mid-siege IW army has its own appeal, and while not as much of an eye-catcher, it's something that complements their background very well.

Just picture it: dirt-cacked, industrial looking armor on muddy bases, adorned with chemical spills and spent case shells. Maybe even some rusty tank traps and barbed wire on the larger bases. Then again, I'm biased. I like me some good, drab looking Krieg, Nurgle and blanchitsu style minis.

And since you're not sold on tanks and daemon engines, maybe consider some forge world Dreads (Contemptors, Deredeos and Leviathans) instead. They fit a shooty IW army nicely.

- Really good points. I think though what people like to look at is more diverse than ever. The Space Wolves I'm working on are perhaps gritty compared to 90's "easter egg" Wolves, but the Legion suits it in my opinion, and I'm noticing a lot of well painted 40K armies are exploring the beat up, war torn, 'grimdark' look, not just Chaos lately.

Good points too on the tanks. I always kind of leave out the Forgeworld stuff because of how penal it's become. IE: With WZ Nephilim coming out, that CP (if it still exists) Tax for FW tanks kind of stinks. However, that being said, I do have one Leviathan Dread that the IW would probably love to use. Grav-Bombard with the new rules might be really fun with IW.

Out of the three in the op, I'd suggest red coursairs. There are rumors huron's getting a cool new model (though his absence ftom today's preview suggests it mught be further out than we might have hoped), and they're a fun faction with a striking color scheme that gets a fair bit of stage time in the lore. They're also one of the more typical csm factions, meaning they make ample use of all the different unit types available in the csm book. This lets you be fluffy while fielding whichever units you think look cool or play well, and the official models fit with the red corsair aesthetic right out of the box.

By comparison, Iron Warriors were saddled with this unfortunate 'cybernetics in place of mutations' and 'no flesh only steel' characterization back in 3rd edition that GW has since pulled back from but that purists still cling to. If you latch onto that, as many IW players seem to, then almost none of the 40k csm line fits them, including most of the deamon engines. You can use 30k models as the basis for your infantry, but that only goes so far.

That's all imo of course. The most important part of army selection is to follow your heart. This hobby costs too much time & money to listen to anyone else.

- Great observations. I think you know I do play a lot. And although competitive, I do try hard to remain loyal to the background. My first Iron Warrior army I was fanatical about clipping off any mutated appendage! I'd glue on a necron arm, or Iron Hand bit (back in the day that was metal stuff... what fun!) And I agree a lot of the old hardcore would perhaps still take that stance. I don't think I'm one of them. There's a lot of 'fluff' reasons we could insert here, but flat out hobby wise, there is just a lot of good looking sculpts coming out (or already out) for CSM that I don't want to alter too much.

- Huron... my gut says I can finally get rid of my metal Huron! Honestly, in my mind that could be one incredible new figure that could rival Abaddon in appearance (/ducks under tomatoes). Maybe it's just in my head, but I've always liked him, and he's actually a rare HQ but also in an era where our HQ's are incredible, and super hard to fit into army lists.

And you're right the hobby is expensive, and I've done so many Chaos armies, that this part right here, the talking with and exchanging ideas with fellow Chaos enthusiasts is one of the great parts of it all!

But playstyle wise, those IW's still intrigue me. They'll always be my first!

If what's keeping you down on Iron Warriors is the color scheme and having done a fair number of them before, why not start a sub-faction that uses their rules? Like the Steel Brethren? Or something new! Blend your two main ideas and make a piratical Iron Warriors warband who have filled their ranks with various other renegades to keep their numbers up.

Good idea, but to be fair, I haven't painted an Iron Warrior in... I'd have to guess 7+ years?

Here are just a few pictures of my Chaos over the years (no specific order):

Iron Warriors. Circa 2013:

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A Nurgle / DG based Warband I tried: (2017?) (too bright for me now)

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My old Thousand Sons army (First one I sold) TS are just always... colourful. No way around that:

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My old Metal Huron, going quite far back:

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My Crimson Slaughter.... I miss them too, but they're chapter traits don't exist now:

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My Khorne/WE/ Daemonkin army: (I still have the Daemon parts)

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My old Death guard hanging out with Magnus:

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Deathguard army:

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Most recent Black Legion:

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So that's a sample of the Chaos armies, just to give a feel for the painting changes over the years.

Just for comparison. Here is my old Space Wolves (which are more 90's traditional:

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And my more recent efforts:

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Now the reason I'm showing the Wolves, is the first Wolves pic dates back to where a lot of my Chaos armies also had the same 'just came out of the paint shop' look. Which is fine, but the second Wolves shot is where I am leaning towards. It is ironically more difficult, but often does not get the same respect as the bright stuff.

However, if I were doing Iron Warriors again, I would definitely be much more motivated to move into the second Wolves type of process than my previous bright metals.

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Might be a bit more than just the paintjob making them 'pop' less. I'm a bit biased on this (I play firstborn Drakeslayers), so take it with salt, but Blackmanes is always a bit of a minus when it comes to interest, and I'm not the biggest fan of the 30k grey color on Primaris for whatever reason. The middle one in the weathered blue is my favorite of the three models.

 

I'd say that if not having rules for Crimson Slaughter was a deal breaker though, then I'd reinforce my previous point on not dealing with potential loss on EC.

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You paint your wolves in a similiar fashion to mine - gritty and for me it works. I also use lots of washes, oils and drybrushes for my DG and IW and I think it works even better here allthough I am no way near the painter you are. Im pretty sure IW can look amazing without the shinyness.

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