The Kratos tank and the future possibilities

[infyrana]

According to Valrak, the Kratos will have 40k rules in the box when it is released. Price is also rumoured to be around £75.

Curious - gven the price versus other prices that were quoted (yet to be confirmed), can we then say that the tank destined at around £53.50 or whatever it was, is likely to be the Sicaran?  Then if the Spartan stays at £60, with the Kratos now being rumoured at £75, would that price indicate that it's actually a bit bigger than the Spartan but smaller than the Baneblade?

 

I only recall seeing one image that had something like a rhino next to the Kratos, so I am personally still unsure on its size.

 

*EDIT* - just watching Valrak's new video post - might need to amend this curiosity post :)

Edited May 26, 2022 by infyrana

[Orange Knight]

The news about the Kratos is very exciting, and the price is better than what I would have expected.

 

I'll be happy to get one, but before I pull the trigger I'll wait for the next codex, just so I can see how it integrate with the faction as whole (and to see if it's even included).

[Orange Knight]

Update:

 

Valrak has since reported that another source states the Kratos does NOT come with 40k rules. This 2nd source is apparently more trusted. In addition, the kit might only be sold via the GW webstore.

[Karhedron]

Valrak has since reported that another source states the Kratos does NOT come with 40k rules. This 2nd source is apparently more trusted. In addition, the kit might only be sold via the GW webstore.

Darn!

 

Oh well, at least my wallet is safe.

[WrathOfTheLion]

He also said the kit itself doesn't come with them, but it may get them later.

This makes total sense, 30k kits having 40k instructions like the MK III/IV kits was an utter plague to the game.

A complete pain in the butt to try to salvage following those.

 

Anyways, he didn't say it wouldn't get 40k rules, just that the box itself won't have them, which it shouldn't, so that's not really news in my opinion.

Edited May 28, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Mike8404]

He also said the kit itself doesn't come with them, but it may get them later.

 

This makes total sense, 30k kits having 40k instructions like the MK III/IV kits was an utter plague to the game.

 

A complete pain in the butt to try to salvage following those.

 

Anyways, he didn't say it wouldn't get 40k rules, just that the box itself won't have them, which it shouldn't, so that's not really news in my opinion.

Agreed. The kits should come with 30k rules first and foremost. If a kit is useable in 40k, put those instructions in the middle of the booklet clearly marked.

 

On a side note: I think the fact it COULD get 40k rules is a sign there might be a second Compendium on the way, especially since Cerastus Knights are apparently lacking a faq to bring them up to par with the current knight dex's. There's no indication GW intends to integrate them into the rules right now, so that makes me think GW might be planning to release those rules into a new FW book. This is just my speculation, though

Edited May 28, 2022 by Mike8404

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t have any issue with the older marks of power armor for 40K… lots o flavor.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I like the barbette style of weapons, but just not for space marines.

The HB mountings look cool, but they just don’t look space mariney to me.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Older marks for 40k are fine and cool. It'd be nice to use the tank for my Word Bearers if it gets rules.

 

Just not the biggest fan when the instructions tell you to make incorrect loadouts for 30k because they're designed for 40k, like the MK III/MK IV used to be.

[BrainFireBob]

 

 

Personally, I think the FW marine tanks should be given first and foremost to CSM because the lore always says "for many Chaos Marines, the Heresy feels like it was only yesterday" so they should still have a lot of the HH tanks in their holdings. Plus, they really don't have a heavy tank option. I would rather we get a Grav lord of war based on the current designs Primaris have, so based in the Repulsor/Impulsor designs since that's tge aesthetic GW is going for.

 

The Kratos definitely needs 40k rules, but more for Chaos than Loyalists, imo.

 

I dont play HH, but I'll still get a paid for S&G's

^^ This...

I've long been of the opinion that rather than Primarizing SMs and eliminating the old Marine line, the kits- like Whirlwinds and Land Speeders- should move to the CSM codex.

 

Edit: Breathe new life into the faction while saving GeeDubs $$

Edited May 28, 2022 by BrainFireBob

[Mike8404]

Idk if it's already been said here, but per the WH Community article today "The Kratos will be earning itself a Warhammer 40,000 datasheet to boot. While it’s rare on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium, it’s not extinct – and it packs just the same wallop".

 

I can't wait!

Edited May 29, 2022 by Mike8404

[Mike8404]

 

 

 

Personally, I think the FW marine tanks should be given first and foremost to CSM because the lore always says "for many Chaos Marines, the Heresy feels like it was only yesterday" so they should still have a lot of the HH tanks in their holdings. Plus, they really don't have a heavy tank option. I would rather we get a Grav lord of war based on the current designs Primaris have, so based in the Repulsor/Impulsor designs since that's tge aesthetic GW is going for.

 

The Kratos definitely needs 40k rules, but more for Chaos than Loyalists, imo.

 

I dont play HH, but I'll still get a paid for S&G's

^^ This...

I've long been of the opinion that rather than Primarizing SMs and eliminating the old Marine line, the kits- like Whirlwinds and Land Speeders- should move to the CSM codex.

 

Edit: Breathe new life into the faction while saving GeeDubs $$

I completely agree! Chaos should get access all the older FB models, like speeders, stalkers, and the loyalist land raiders. Let Loyalists get the new tech and Heretics get the relic stuff

[TheNewman]

Well now that the forums are back up:

The Kratos is a Gladiator with longer gun ranges, a 2+, and five more wounds for 100 extra points.

All in on AT it's four Lascannon shots and four 36" Multimelta shots, plus the pintle MM and that's not even special for BTs.  

Full volkite is 22 shots all at D2, plus the AC.  Just about the same into Marines, wildly inferior into any kind of horde.

I'll have to actually play it to be sure but it feels like the value is in being able to mix profiles and handle a spread of targets, because otherwise a Gladiator does it for cheaper and they're easier to hide.

Edited June 26, 2022 by TheNewman

[War of the Eagle]

I've used my Kratos in a couple games and it did OK. My opponents didn't have a ton of antitank so mostly ignored it. I ran it with the main Vulkite gun, Vulkite sponsons, hull mounted Las cannons, and pintel multimelta. Feel it gave it an ability to be useful in any situation but not sure if more useful than 2x the new points dropped Gladiators. Still a great centerpiece model.

I think the main problem is the primary guns. All 3 need a S increase by 1, why is the melta just 4 shots? It should be S9 or d6+4 at half range. The battle cannon is huge but weaker than the guard counterpart? And finally if the Deredeo volkite can be S8 so can this one. All 3 just don't feel like primary weapons. 

Another fix could have been having dule weapon sponsons, it's an awfully big tank to have preditor style sponsons. Why is the Contemptor a better Vulkite platform?

Edited June 26, 2022 by War of the Eagle

[TheNewman]

Some people have asked about the Kratos' size; it's bigger than a Land Raider by a little less than one track width both side-to-side and front-to-back.

Edited June 26, 2022 by TheNewman

[Minsc]

12 hours ago, TheNewman said:

Well now that the forums are back up:

The Kratos is a Gladiator with longer gun ranges, a 2+, and five more wounds for 100 extra points.

All in on AT it's four Lascannon shots and four 36" Multimelta shots, plus the pintle MM and that's not even special for BTs.  

Post-update, the Valiant is 200 pts and the Kratos (with 4 Lascannons an additional MM) is 330 points.

Those 130 points (and 1 CP) gives;

2+ save instead of 3+.
6 additional wounds (12 vs. 18)
+24" range on the 4 "Lascannon" shots. 
+12" range on the 4 "Multimelta" shots. 
+2 additional Multimeltashots at normal range.
+2 Autocannonshots at normal range.

Is the Kratos worth the ~60% increased cost (and -1 CP) over a Gladiator Valiant? Maybe.
Some buffs (various stratagems and Awaken the Machinespirits) will benefit the Kratos way more than the Gladiator. 

Personally I think the Kratos is "alright", but now with the point-update it should probably be a little cheaper; in tune with the rest of the cost-reductions among SM tanks. 
With that said, I modelled my own Kratos with the full Volike loadout - not only because I think Volkite-weaponry is badass, but also because that makes the Kratos fairly unique outside of FW-stuff. The Space Marine roster has no shortage of viable Multimelta- and Lascannon-platforms, but massed Volkite weaponry is in short supply. 

[Orange Knight]

I think the Kratos rules are OK, I will give it a try in a few games but will mostly use it in 30k (I have been dragged into the Heresy, funny enough).

Interestingly, the Gladiator tank is petty well balanced against it, but the Repulsors look truly awful by comparison. Those tanks need a significant adjustment in terms of their rules, profiles and abilities. 

The new Chaos codex hints at possible upgrades for the various Astartes tanks and Units. Hopefully we won't be waiting too long.

[Captain Idaho]

Been thinking about this tank... do we think the stat increases from Codex Chaos Marines will affect things like the Kratos?

I actually think not... T8 is already there and the Land Raider is notable for being a chunk for the higher T9.

As for the Lascannons... they appear to be limited to the Twin Linked vehicle versions, so the smaller ones are more man-portable and thus less powerful. Since rhe Kratos doesn't have any twin linked Lascannons, I think it won't get any changes to it's datasheet. Of course I'd like that to not be the case but that's what I feel.

*******

So what turret and load out do my fellow Frater believe is most useful? I'm thinking all Lascannons plus the Battle Cannon.

The reason I say this is the range, plus the Kratos can deal with hard targets and elite infantry that might trouble my Ultramarines otherwise. Most of my losses come from vehicles, monsters and elite infantry giving me trouble.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

A point that was made to me elsewhere was basically, "Why put all the usual guns on it?  We have lots of other platforms to carry those guns.  Go all-volkite -- there's not very many of those available."

 

I'm not member of the Martian Death Ray Club so I can' t speak to that statement, but I see nothing wrong with punching out as many mortal wounds as you can.

[Captain Idaho]

That's a good point of course.

I just need go deal with certain targets that my army might otherwise struggle against, s'all. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Minsc]

9 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

So what turret and load out do my fellow Frater believe is most useful? I'm thinking all Lascannons plus the Battle Cannon.

The Kratos Battlecannon is a poorly designed trap, stay away from it.
The AT-shot is a joke since it's only 1 shot at BS3+ (no +1 to hit like the Lancer and Executioner), and it's "only" S14 so doesn't even wound T8-targets on 2+. 
The HE-shots look good at first glance, but S7 AP2 leaves it lacking against it's "preferred" targets, and Heavy D6+3 means it's too random for a 320+ point model. 
(On average it's 6,5 shots, 4,33 hits, 2,88 wounds, 1,44 wounds on MEQ's / 0,96 wounds on TEQ's.)

If the AT was Heavy 2 (and maybe S16) and the HE was Heavy 6+D3 (and maybe AP3) I could see the appeal, but right now both the Melta blast-gun and the Volkite Cardanelle does what the Kratos Battlecannon does, but better - and the Cardanelle has longer range to boot. 

[Captain Idaho]

I was tempted by the melta blast gun on principle of 4 shots wounding T8 vehicles on a 4 being better than 1 shot wounding it on a 3+.

Plus 4 shots against heavy infantry vs 4-9 (average of 6-7) with better AP and wounding on 2+ is interesting too.

Good points. I'll obviously magnetise where possible so I can use all 3 turrets if I can.

Reflecting on it further, consider melta is gleamed elsewhere in the list so do I want my expensive tank to do what 2 Attack Bikes do? Ranged ground and pound is the name of the game for my idea of it.

Another factor to take into account is the Battlecannon does provide anti-infantry capacity. Lighter infantry can still get nuked whereas Marines might not.

Plenty to consider.

*******

Loadout I'd still go for Lascannons which I feel would be important to supplement the high hard-target removal capacity. T9 Land Raiders might be a widespread thing and this could extend to the likes of Baneblades and other vehicles so that is a definite issue.

That's one of the reasons the Kratos Battle Cannon could be worthwhile as it wounds on a 3+ vs such targets vs a 5+.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[TheNewman]

Those are both good points, and then the other side is the average 3-4 MWs you'll get out of going all-in on the Volkite.

It's weird that the tiny hull guns have such a long range compared to the pintle mount tough.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The Choom build is swingy so if you hit the jackpot it could really sting your opponent hard .

[Orange Knight]

I think the Tank is best if you go fully in on the high strength weapons. The Melta Cannon, an additional Multi Melta and 4 Las Cannons.

It is durable, and this way it has long range, high impact weapons in respectable volumes.