HH 2.0 The Steppes of Chogoris: Vth Legion Tactica

[Meduson]

Just got back this weekend from a bunch of games with the Scars at NOVA and had some thoughts. I was only able to play in the 1500 pt doubles event but it gave me some insight into how the 2.0 meta is shaping up.

It seems like strong 2W, WS5 units are becoming meta, at least at smaller points levels which puts us in a pretty strong disadvantage unfortunately without any options for that. My only thought is to add a command squad which isn't unique and we can't add power glaives to. 

I only took one jetbike squad but they seem to perform pretty well, essentially as a mobile, slightly tougher albeit more expensive, heavy weapons squad. Volkites rip. Nothing realy special to the Scars but just look cool and can threaten anything on the table with range and mobility.

Power glaives seems pretty strong, my assault squad sgt with one did well in several challenges. 

Kyzagans seem incredibly strong, really good firepower with both main weapons and rending.

Finally, the legion trait didn't have much effect in most of my games since everything has become more mobile, but it does add a lot for basic tacticals squads. I was able to run a squad onto and objective at the end of a game, which I don't think another legion could.

Anyone experienced any other thoughts? I am considering adding some recon marines to run the Recon Rite but also want to add a Leviathan and/or more jetbikes but want to see what others think.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I mentioned this in the night lord tactica, but low point games lead to really skewed results when you can't cover all the bases and your opponent takes units youre weak against.

The multiwound, ws 5, 2+ armour save unit was long predicted to be good. The Golden keshig are a goodish counter, as the full unit is pretty cheap and can do a number on them and dreads, and hopefully not take too much damage in return, and can hit and run out if they need to.

Recons are solid anywhere they can be popped in, especially with snipers.  Kyzagans are solid at T7. Both bring some ranged support to your lists, which is helpful since, imo, the trait helps units get into combat with the +1 to move and often increasing a bonus to the charge.

[fryguy49]

So I played my first 2.0 game with White Scars and I am wondering if I am missing a rules interaction with the Golden Keshig.
As I understand it, because they have the heavy trait they can not run. So they can never get a shroud save from Shamshir Jetbikes nor can and character that joins the squad.

[Brofist]

Yep, you are understanding it correctly. Its a head scratcher for sure

[MARK0SIAN]

I’m looking for some input/opinions on how to run White Scars.

 

I’ve played heresy for years but have never even played against White Scars so I’m pretty inexperienced running the legion. I’ve been building the Legion slowly but the advent of plastic Jetbikes have moved them up a gear and I need more of a direction to build in. I want to run a jetbike heavy force but not necessarily exclusively jetbikes. 
 

My main questions kind of fall into 3 categories:

 

1) What do people think of the bike rites of war? On first glance the benefits seem a bit meh compared to the restrictions but I’m not used to running jetbikes so maybe I’m missing something? 
 

2) I’m thinking of a couple of big blobs of bikes backed up by some infantry in rhinos and maybe some Scorpius launchers as back up (If I don’t use the rites) does this sound sensible?

 

3) Command Squad on jetbikes. It’s expensive but is it worth it? 
 

To be clear, I’m not looking to build a super strong list to sweep all before me, I’m running bikes for rule of cool. That said, I’d like to have a reasonable chance in a typical game so I don’t want to do something like commit to building something like Chogorian Brotherhood only to see it laughed off the table by turn two. 
 

Any advice is appreciated :)

[Brofist]

I'm also new to the legion, but I'm having so much fun with scars as they play very different from anybody else. I mostly play in ZM, but here's what I've learned so far:

• WS are strong. They are a flexible alpha strike focused brawler legion. However, they take finesse to play. So unlike say IF (where you don't need a brain to play well) WS will shine in the hands of more calculated, experienced, players.
• Both ROW are very strong, but you need to build around them to make them shine. If you find the restrictions too harsh, ally in what you need.
• I would not recommend rhinos or slow infantry for the WS specific ROW. You need units that keep up with the rest of your army. As WS you must be engaging on your terms. If you're not, then you're on the back foot.
• Command squads on jetbikes are not worth the price. Command squads with regular bikes or jump packs are strong options. I'd run two units if I could.

[Brofist]

While we're at it, I wanna complain about the cyber hawk. On paper its pretty good, but in practice I don't think I'm taking one anymore. The kicker is that you use at the start of the turn, so its extremely rare that you're in a position where your unit is staring down the target you want to blast / get into melee with. It would have been much more useful if it was done at the end of the movement phase.

[SkimaskMohawk]

43 minutes ago, Brofist said:

While we're at it, I wanna complain about the cyber hawk. On paper its pretty good, but in practice I don't think I'm taking one anymore. The kicker is that you use at the start of the turn, so its extremely rare that you're in a position where your unit is staring down the target you want to blast / get into melee with. It would have been much more useful if it was done at the end of the movement phase.

 

Yea they were a lot more versatile in 1st. It still got placed at the start of the player turn, but it was anywhere where the token could sit. It then tagged all enemy units within 6" and granted rerolls of 1s to hit and charges on those units. And the reroll to hit complimented the reroll to wound from swift action.

 

It was limited to praetors, and only affected infantry with the Legion rule, but ya, better. Like most of the scars stuff...

[The Scorpion]

On 2/1/2023 at 6:21 PM, Brofist said:

I'm also new to the legion, but I'm having so much fun with scars as they play very different from anybody else. I mostly play in ZM, but here's what I've learned so far:

• WS are strong. They are a flexible alpha strike focused brawler legion. However, they take finesse to play. So unlike say IF (where you don't need a brain to play well) WS will shine in the hands of more calculated, experienced, players.
• Both ROW are very strong, but you need to build around them to make them shine. If you find the restrictions too harsh, ally in what you need.
• I would not recommend rhinos or slow infantry for the WS specific ROW. You need units that keep up with the rest of your army. As WS you must be engaging on your terms. If you're not, then you're on the back foot.
• Command squads on jetbikes are not worth the price. Command squads with regular bikes or jump packs are strong options. I'd run two units if I could.

Dumb question, but the extra Movement allows Scars infantry to reroll charges, right? I ask because the Long March RoW specifically says that it doesn't for SoH but the Scars have no built-in restriction.

Edited March 28 by The Scorpion

[Gorgoff]

On 3/26/2024 at 7:47 PM, The Scorpion said:

Dumb question, but the extra Movement allows Scars infantry to reroll charges, right? I ask because the Long March RoW specifically says that it doesn't for SoH but the Scars have no built-in restriction.

Yup, they are very fast so it applies.

[General Zodd]

19 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Yup, they are very fast so it applies.

Where is the rule about re-rolling charges? I thought higher speeds just added a flat bonus to the dice roll? (Though not, as previously stated, for the Long March RoW)

[Gorgoff]

42 minutes ago, General Zodd said:

Where is the rule about re-rolling charges? I thought higher speeds just added a flat bonus to the dice roll? (Though not, as previously stated, for the Long March RoW)

Rulebook page 181.

Edit: I somehow managed to totally misunderstand you.

I thought you wanted to know if they get the +1 mod for being 8" fast, which they do. I don't know why they should be able to re-roll failed charges though.

Edited April 3 by Gorgoff

[The Scorpion]

5 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Rulebook page 181.

Edit: I somehow managed to totally misunderstand you.

I thought you wanted to know if they get the +1 mod for being 8" fast, which they do. I don't know why they should be able to re-roll failed charges though.

Yeah, apologies, that is what I meant. 

[MichaelCarmine]

Hello there =]

 

Since my gaming group lacks White Scars and i'm in need of a Legion that i can also convincingly play as traitors, i've decided to start a Sagyar Mazan Scars army.

 

While planning the List, a question has come up - with the latest erratas, the rules for the rite have been updated, so that a unit with the unique unit subtype cannot get the Kharash subtype and no FnP (5+).

 

So if i want to include Qin Xa (only as loyalists, of course) - fluffwise not as himself, i actually just would like to have a Command Squad with Power Glaives - and his Tartaros Command Squad, my understanding is, that qin Xa wouldn't receive the "upgrade", but his Command Squad would.

 

So my Opponent would be able to get Points for "Slay the Warlord" but i would also receive the bonus of Fearless on a succesful charge and FnP (5+) on all except Qin Xa.

 

Is that correct? 

Edited October 5 by MichaelCarmine

[Razorblade]

On 10/5/2024 at 3:28 PM, MichaelCarmine said:

Hello there =]

 

Since my gaming group lacks White Scars and i'm in need of a Legion that i can also convincingly play as traitors, i've decided to start a Sagyar Mazan Scars army.

 

While planning the List, a question has come up - with the latest erratas, the rules for the rite have been updated, so that a unit with the unique unit subtype cannot get the Kharash subtype and no FnP (5+).

 

So if i want to include Qin Xa (only as loyalists, of course) - fluffwise not as himself, i actually just would like to have a Command Squad with Power Glaives - and his Tartaros Command Squad, my understanding is, that qin Xa wouldn't receive the "upgrade", but his Command Squad would.

 

So my Opponent would be able to get Points for "Slay the Warlord" but i would also receive the bonus of Fearless on a succesful charge and FnP (5+) on all except Qin Xa.

 

Is that correct? 

Edit: turns out I can't read. I would argue that as Retinues and characters are one unit and that unit would include the unique subtype no one is getting the bonus since the exception states units not models.

Edited October 12 by Razorblade

[MichaelCarmine]

2 hours ago, Razorblade said:

Edit: turns out I can't read. I would argue that as Retinues and characters are one unit and that unit would include the unique subtype no one is getting the bonus since the exception states units not models.

Yeah, i've arrived at that conclusion as well ^^

Since the wording of the Retinue rule mentions, that the squad part of the same unit as the leader. So it becomes Unique in the process, i'd assume. 

Shame...

Maybe i'll settle with a "normal" Tartaros Command Squad and Charnabal Glaives. Apart from AP3, it's the same Weapon with a nice Duelists Edge(2). =]

Although i wouldn't mind giving my opponent atleast points for a Slay the Warlord. Otherwise, in some Missions he wouldn't get a single VP xD