HH 2.0 The Crimson Host: IXth Legion Tactica

[Slips]

Discussion topic with regards to the Blood Angels in the 2nd edition of the Horus Heresy system.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Slips

[Redwunzgofasta]

Hi,

 

I’ve had a scan over the information floating around and I’m thinking of the following for my blood angels tactical squads. I will probably do two of the same to fill out my compulsory troops slots. I’ve learned in the past I don’t like boxing myself into specific RoW builds, so want a foundation of two tactical squads to build on for my new army:

 

20 strong tactical squad

Vexilla

19 chain bayonets

Sergeant:

Artificer armour

Power fist

Plasma (inferno) pistol

 

Appreciate any thoughts. I understand we don’t have the final rules in hand yet, but I think this build is enough of a Swiss Army knife to do a bit of objective sitting and a bit of counter attack if needed.

 

I’d like to start gluing up my marines as soon as the box lands!

Edited May 30, 2022 by Redwunzgofasta

[Corswain]

That's exactly what I was intending to do. Not a gamer though so it was more about a big, beautiful blob of red murder-men looking cool.

[Redwunzgofasta]

Yeah 40 tactical marines with bayonets fixed will be a sight to behold!

[Cris R]

Hi,

 

I’ve had a scan over the information floating around and I’m thinking of the following for my blood angels tactical squads. I will probably do two of the same to fill out my compulsory troops slots. I’ve learned in the past I don’t like boxing myself into specific RoW builds, so want a foundation of two tactical squads to build on for my new army:

 

20 strong tactical squad

Vexilla

19 chain bayonets

Sergeant:

Artificer armour

Power fist

Plasma (inferno) pistol

 

Appreciate any thoughts. I understand we don’t have the final rules in hand yet, but I think this build is enough of a Swiss Army knife to do a bit of objective sitting and a bit of counter attack if needed.

 

I’d like to start gluing up my marines as soon as the box lands!

 

This looks solid overall. I think for the Line Troop sub-category, a Power Fist is more often than not a better value than a Perdition weapon since both cost the same but you punch much harder the Fist. The question to think through is how you plan on transporting these marines and whether your transport has the assault rule so your guys can charge to get that +1 to wound. Also, one correction: the Inferno Pistol is a melta weapon, not a plasma one.

[Cleon]

 

Hi,

 

I’ve had a scan over the information floating around and I’m thinking of the following for my blood angels tactical squads. I will probably do two of the same to fill out my compulsory troops slots. I’ve learned in the past I don’t like boxing myself into specific RoW builds, so want a foundation of two tactical squads to build on for my new army:

 

20 strong tactical squad

Vexilla

19 chain bayonets

Sergeant:

Artificer armour

Power fist

Plasma (inferno) pistol

 

Appreciate any thoughts. I understand we don’t have the final rules in hand yet, but I think this build is enough of a Swiss Army knife to do a bit of objective sitting and a bit of counter attack if needed.

 

I’d like to start gluing up my marines as soon as the box lands!

 

This looks solid overall. I think for the Line Troop sub-category, a Power Fist is more often than not a better value than a Perdition weapon since both cost the same but you punch much harder the Fist. The question to think through is how you plan on transporting these marines and whether your transport has the assault rule so your guys can charge to get that +1 to wound. Also, one correction: the Inferno Pistol is a melta weapon, not a plasma one.

 

My assumption was that's a reference as to the Inferno pistol being a legion specific replacement for the Plasma pistol.

 

Personally that squad looks good to me, but I'm looking at one squad with bayonets and one squad with chainswords, just to mix them up a bit (and because my base tactical squads won't be the Mk6, so I have the swords available)

[Redwunzgofasta]

Hi, thanks for the replies.

 

Sorry if I was unclear about the pistol, I just meant I’ll pay the points for the plasma and swap it for the optional melta.

 

I was thinking of running the two squads of 20 on foot, but I should have a second Spartan that I could put one of them in to ensure the charge, with the second unit as more of an objective sitter.

 

Even if they’re fairly static I imagine the chain bayonets will make people think twice about approaching objectives in some situations for fear of a counter assault… I’m certainly not a tactical genius though!

Edited May 30, 2022 by Redwunzgofasta

[bushman101]

I'm split on bayonets on Tacs. The bonuses are nice, the unit only gets 1 attack per model base.

I would play a few games with/without before building

Edited May 30, 2022 by bushman101

[Redwunzgofasta]

On a similar vein to the tactical squads, I’ve been thinking of what to do with my cataphractii. I’d quite like to stick fairly closely to the weapon options offered by the box contents if possible.

 

A rough idea for a unit of 10 with a Spartan for transport is:

 

5 with chainfist and combi bolter

5 with lightning claw and combi bolter

Vexilla

Grenade harness

 

Potentially I’d buy the resin cataphractii assault cannons (for blood angel flavour) and add two into the unit.

 

With the +2 attacks for a pair of lightning claws now, would people be taking them in pairs rather than singles?

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Redwunzgofasta

[Cris R]

On a similar vein to the tactical squads, I’ve been thinking of what to do with my cataphractii. I’d quite like to stick fairly closely to the weapon options offered by the box contents if possible.

 

A rough idea for a unit of 10 with a Spartan for transport is:

 

5 with chainfist and combi bolter

5 with lightning claw and combi bolter

Vexilla

Grenade harness

 

Potentially I’d buy the resin cataphractii assault cannons (for blood angel flavour) and add two into the unit.

 

With the +2 attacks for a pair of lightning claws now, would people be taking them in pairs rather than singles?

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

2 to 3 Chainfists and 2 to 3 Power Fists for every five Terminators is the way to go since you want a unit that can punch hard against other 2 wound Vets and Terminators in this edition. If you want AP3 at initiative to chew up MEQs, 15-man units of Assault Marines or Despoilers with Chainswords and an Apothecary may be a better investment, especially since the former benefits from being able to charge out of deep striking and is speedier even when you deploy it on the board so you can get you into charge range faster. In addition to gaining Hammer of Wrath with the Assault Marines, you're also throwing a lot more attacks with these squads than the five Terminators with Single Claws while keeping Shred with their Chainswords. Finally, you can also run the Sarg with a Fist and can access a Power Axes for every five marines, which gives them flexibility with handling AP2 targets. Others who are better at Mathhammer can correct me if I'm wrong here, though.

 

That said, if it looks cool, do it. I'd probably would do a combination of 3 single Lightning Claws, 4 Power Fists, 3 Chainfists, and the Grenade Harness on the Sarg if you go down this route. And I'm planning on running two Assault Cannons with my next batch of Cataphractiis and Tartaros, so you have my vote there with the rule of cool.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Cris R

[Redwunzgofasta]

Thanks for the reply Cris, really good shout on thinking about MEQ/TEQ focus for units. This unit can deal with hard stuff so better to tool it up to do so and leave dealing with 3+ single wound enemies to other units. Lots of good points to think about there, really appreciate it.

[bushman101]

Ok. So, I've been really thinking about a way to counter the Master of Signals. As someone with a Day of Revelation list, facing the MoS seems like a bummer.

 

Hear me out and see if there is a fatal flaw to my logic.

 

From what I understand, the MoS has to be on the table to use the Disruptor. So he can't be hiding inside a transport.

Since I can't drop on turn 1, maybe I could kill it before he's relevant. Maybe a combination of Recon Snipers and Barrage/Ordinance weapons. A unit of Seekers could work too?

 

Any ideas or thoughts?

Edited June 1, 2022 by bushman101

[The4thHorseman]

Thoughts on Assault Marine Loadouts?

15x Marines

3 x Power Axes

Sgt. Artificer Armor

Perdition Axe

[bushman101]

Perdition sword is tempting to try and get Muderous Strike at Initiative. Would be good for challenges. 

 

[tinpact]

Perdition weapons don't have Murderous Strike, I think that's Paragon Blades.

On 6/24/2022 at 5:21 PM, The4thHorseman said:

Thoughts on Assault Marine Loadouts?

15x Marines

3 x Power Axes

Sgt. Artificer Armor

Perdition Axe

Pretty similar to what I was thinking of, although my first instinct is it might be a big investment for WS4 units (45pts for axes and another 10 for artificer?). Although, you make the points back as long as you kill two Terminators and you've got plenty of ablative wounds.

On 6/1/2022 at 4:32 PM, bushman101 said:

Ok. So, I've been really thinking about a way to counter the Master of Signals. As someone with a Day of Revelation list, facing the MoS seems like a bummer.

Like you said, snipers might be worthwhile for getting rid of a probably ubiquitous character. Plus, they give Pinning, which I imagine will be especially important for Blood Angels given how strong the shooting reactions seem to be. 

I've been looking through the book for other ways to keep our units from getting shot to pieces - our advanced reaction gives Shrouded(5), which is nice.

Deathstorm pods have Pinning and can hit four units at once, although they come in on the first turn and are BS2(!) so I'm not sure how useful that is.

I'm thinking Whirlwinds might be the way to go, although that's probably the case for many legions.

[MaximusTL]

Some of the legion specific wargear is vague, so: 

Can a Spartan replace the twin heavy flamers with twin assault cannons?

If you give a Chaplain an Axe of Perdition, does it still get mastercrafted?

In general, is the axe or sword of perdition better?

[tinpact]

Hmm... I'll have to check the actual wording when I get home but:

1. I think twin heavy flamers might count as a different weapon, in which case no, although it's probably fine as long as you paid the points. There's no entry for twin heavy flamers, so I would assume you just upgrade all of them individually (although it's 20pts per, so YMMV).

2. Probably not  "[Perdition weapons] are counted as both 'Power' and 'Flame' weapons for rules that affect such weapons" and the Chaplain's entry just says you can give a power weapon Master-crafted. So, probably?

3. Depends on the target and the unit you have it on. I'm pretty sure you can only have one per unit since it's restricted to characters. If you're targeting Vets, then the sword, if Terminators the axe or a power fist. If you're targeting anything you can't ID then the maul is probably better. If you don't have a specific target in mind I would take the axe for AP2 and Brutal.

The one exception I would list is if you can get a +1 to strength, then the maul is Brutal and ID vs T4.

I also forgot to mention the spear option - it doesn't have Rending, but IMO Rending on 6+ isn't very good for a character anyway, and it does have Reach, which I can see coming in handy in certain cases.

Edited June 29, 2022 by tinpact
Assorted corrections and additions

[tinpact]

Aster Crohne is back in the PDF. He looks okay. 155 points is around Praetor territory, but he comes back after death and gives a buff. I don't know how useful his special trait is - shred on flame weapons is nice, but how many flamers are you generally taking?

Perdition weapons count towards this as well, but I don't think there's a good way to spam them and they're mostly wounding on 2s anyway.

[The Unseen]

So what other loyalist legion warlord traits are worth giving to Raldoran?

[Damon Nightman]

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask this, but I was wondering if there is any way to give a BA HQ an assault cannon?

[bushman101]

20 hours ago, The Unseen said:

So what other loyalist legion warlord traits are worth giving to Raldoran?

I was looking at Burden of Kings from Ultras. IWND on +4, seems neat if you plan to throw him into combat.

 

1 hour ago, Brother Lemartes said:

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask this, but I was wondering if there is any way to give a BA HQ an assault cannon?

I.....don't think so? The HQ needs to swap a H Flamer to get it, which isn't a option (even for command squads)

[SmorcInc]

20 hours ago, The Unseen said:

So what other loyalist legion warlord traits are worth giving to Raldoran?

Space Wolves have a couple good ones, a kills heal + if full health get a buff till the end of your next turn; and a preffered enemy independent characters + when in melee with independent characters get a FNP for your whole unit.

Imperial Fist's +1WS when fighting traitors is pretty rude when you know you're fighting traitors, applies to your whole unit too.

Iron Hands give you a fight on death, and a couple fear ones.

Anything that boosts leadership isn't terrible, Sallies have an ignoring fear one so if you know you're fighting NL that's hilarious.

[tinpact]

Raldoron already has WS7 and Furious Charge (2) so anything that buffs his fighting or durability is good. RG's Bane of Tyrants can take him up to S8-9 and 1-2 bonus attacks in a challenge (all at initiative!). Otherwise, if I understand how the rule works, Howl of Morkai looks like a great army-wide buff (one turn of +1 to S for all units that successfully charged) that synergizes with the BA trait. Also, is it just me, or does the last sentence of his WLT look like it was two sentences they merged and forgot to change?

@Brother LemartesThe Armistos can take a twin-linked heavy flamer, although I'm still not sure how weapons with modifiers work for replacements.

[Eascottie]

Thought experiment…

If you were to make Crimson Paladins work…how would you run them?

[Uberlord Gendo]

What's wrong with them? They look reasonable to me as a cheap, elite tarpit. You can teleport them in, overcoming the slow speed of cataphractii, they're effectively T5 in melee, get a fnp if they're outnumbered (which they usually will) and because they're Blood Angels they effectively get furious charge for turn 1 of an assault. They're like cheaper Justaerin that can't shoot.

I may be missing something, but I say run them as part of a larger deepstrike and use them to pin down your opponent's tactical blobs or elite melee, like the aforementioned Justaerin.