HH 2.0 The Gladitorial Pits: XIIth Legion Tactica

[Bloody Legionnaire]

So, are Inductii no longer a thing?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

On 12/6/2022 at 4:57 PM, Papewaio said:

I've been toying with the idea of giving them meteor hammers - means they swing before other marines and are kicking out Instant Death attacks. I mean, you're relying on breaching, but better than nothing, no?

I would say yes, but they are 2 handed so don't gain bonus attacks for 2 melee weapons. Falax Blades give an additional attack and are S5 Rending (4+) which means you can even wound Leviathans on 4s instead of 6s. Plus as long as you have chosen warriors any challenge puts you at I5 S5 rending 4+ against other sergeants/centurions and your massive amounts of attacks allow you to still get hits in against WS5 2+ saves. 

 

It's all relative. Take what you want, rule of cool and all. Falax Blades are the easiest conversion in my oppinion though, cause you can just take Grey Knight purifier Falcons and use those as your dual Falax Blades.

[Bodtfarm]

On 12/9/2022 at 12:33 AM, Bloody Legionnaire said:

So, are Inductii no longer a thing?

 

They are, you've got to use the Ghalan Surlak rules from the FW pdf to bring them. 

[Irate Khornate]

So after a good while of playing I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather keep my despoiler squads cheap and give them all chainaxes and the falax blades or a power fist on the sgt.

All the extra gear just wound up being either complete overkill, or got vaporized by either shooting or faster initiative.

[Bodtfarm]

On 12/14/2022 at 12:49 PM, Irate Khornate said:

So after a good while of playing I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather keep my despoiler squads cheap and give them all chainaxes and the falax blades or a power fist on the sgt.

All the extra gear just wound up being either complete overkill, or got vaporized by either shooting or faster initiative.

 

Interesting point.  Are your despoilers doing the heavy lifting in your list? 

 

My thinking was that if Despoilers are going to do work...a smaller number of higher quality attacks were more useful than a larger number of average attacks. 

 

[Cactus]

In my experience of wargaming rolling more dice helps a lot. Strength 5 and re-rolls to wound should force a good number of armour saves against infantry.

[temneb]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:57 AM, Papewaio said:

I've been toying with the idea of giving them meteor hammers - means they swing before other marines and are kicking out Instant Death attacks. I mean, you're relying on breaching, but better than nothing, no?

I'm all about the metior hammers for my Rampagers. Wounding on 2's, striking first and ID on the charge with the right warlord trait, goes a long way to making up for the loss of attacks and lower rend. 

[Irate Khornate]

5 hours ago, Bodtfarm said:

 

Interesting point.  Are your despoilers doing the heavy lifting in your list? 

 

My thinking was that if Despoilers are going to do work...a smaller number of higher quality attacks were more useful than a larger number of average attacks. 

 

They do good work, but are generally reserved for going against other despoiler or tactical squads and holding objectives. My rampagers get sent to everything else and do a bit more of the heavy lifting as I usually run Crimson Path.

 

So generally they either sweep the opposing squad, lock them up for a few turns, or have something much more dangerous (Lernean terminators for one) pointed at them and get wiped out. The last one in particular I don't mind as that generally means it's something not pointed at the rampagers.

 

As for the quality of attacks, squad-wide strength 5 and the extra attack on the charge usually gives me all the advantage I need since I run squads of 20.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bodtfarm]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:32 PM, Irate Khornate said:

They do good work, but are generally reserved for going against other despoiler or tactical squads and holding objectives. My rampagers get sent to everything else and do a bit more of the heavy lifting as I usually run Crimson Path.

 

So generally they either sweep the opposing squad, lock them up for a few turns, or have something much more dangerous (Lernean terminators for one) pointed at them and get wiped out. The last one in particular I don't mind as that generally means it's something not pointed at the rampagers.

 

As for the quality of attacks, squad-wide strength 5 and the extra attack on the charge usually gives me all the advantage I need since I run squads of 20.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That makes sense. WE Despoilers do just fine if they stay in their lane.  Pointing them up with special weapons and running them into legion elites means they still die/are swept. 

 

I was worried I might be over thinking it. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Bodtfarm

[Dont-Be-Haten]

The more I deep dive into WE and think about lists that Crimson Path RoW is really tanky. Just thinking about rolling AA saves until the first wound and then ignoring it, and continue rolling 2+ saves, or tanking Lascannon shots on a Praetor with his 4++ and just continue to roll the saves until the first one goes through and ignore it and then put the rest of the shots on something else.

 

Being able to ignore an instant death wound is just amazing to me, even if it's just once per phase.

 

I haven't had the chance to play with it or against it, but it really flips how you're going to want to allocate wounds etc.

 

Has anyone used this RoW or played against it? It seems spot on as a very good RoW on paper.

[SkimaskMohawk]

That's not how crimson path works; you don't discard the first unsaved wound. You ignore the first allocated wound before any saves or damage mitigation, so it comes down to your opponent's ranged weapon sequencing or how they manage the various aspects of the assault phase. 

 

Its still very good, especially against stuff like gun+melee dreads who have a pretty low amount of attacks. It also kind of forces overcommittment to finish anything off with a low number of quality weapons. I play against it at least once a week and just had a game against it last night, and my opponent has gone from mass infantry to a vehicle heavy list while using it; unsurprisingly the infantry heavy list uses it the best. You just kinda need to keep an eye out on spacing against any blast weapons, since those can tag multiple units at once to proc the crimson path discard. Multiple las squads are really scary to try and deal with between the discard and return fire, butchers are really tanky with the -1 STR and the discard (and maybe a primus or Vestal), rampagers are obviously very good with line and the discard on their two wounds.

[Irate Khornate]

So here's a question, how is everyone arming their terminators? Not the red butchers, but your legion cataphractii and tartarus terminators.

[Bodtfarm]

6 hours ago, Irate Khornate said:

So here's a question, how is everyone arming their terminators? Not the red butchers, but your legion cataphractii and tartarus terminators.

 

With as much S8 Ap2 Melee weaponry as i can afford. 

[Sword Brethren Durion]

What do you guys think of Redheand Destroyers ? They seems pretty deadly with radbomb when they charge or get charged and with meteor hammer to do instant death on each wwounds. But they sadly looks kinda overcost.

[Irate Khornate]

2 hours ago, Sword Brethren Durion said:

What do you guys think of Redheand Destroyers ? They seems pretty deadly with radbomb when they charge or get charged and with meteor hammer to do instant death on each wwounds. But they sadly looks kinda overcost.

I think the update killed the unit in the water. At 15 points per model the cadere weapons are far too expensive, and you lose the ability to take pistols besides bolt pistols. They only situation in which they are better than standard destroyers is if you wanted to bring the thunder hammers and had no plans to change out the bolt pistols. 

[Sword Brethren Durion]

6 hours ago, Irate Khornate said:

I think the update killed the unit in the water. At 15 points per model the cadere weapons are far too expensive, and you lose the ability to take pistols besides bolt pistols. They only situation in which they are better than standard destroyers is if you wanted to bring the thunder hammers and had no plans to change out the bolt pistols. 

 

That's pretty sad. I still don't understand why Cadere weapon cost 15 points instead of 10 since more of 15points weapon are instant death... But well let's hope maybe they will tweak some units a bit later.

[infyrana]

With the new berserker kit here, does anyone have any melee centric allied detachment list ideas please?

[panascope]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:51 AM, Sword Brethren Durion said:

What do you guys think of Redheand Destroyers ? They seems pretty deadly with radbomb when they charge or get charged and with meteor hammer to do instant death on each wwounds. But they sadly looks kinda overcost.

I built 15 when the Caedere weapons were super cheap because they seemed neat and I wanted to build something weird, then they revised the edition and made the Caedere weapons 15 points a shot. Wayyyyy too much for a WS4 W1 model. Now I just run them as Rampagers.

[Irate Khornate]

On 2/14/2023 at 1:02 PM, infyrana said:

With the new berserker kit here, does anyone have any melee centric allied detachment list ideas please?

Which legion is your main detachment?

[Irate Khornate]

So it's been a long while, how is everyone's games been going?

 

Any new tactics as the edition has progressed?

[bluedestiny]

Not really the best tactic out there, but have worked wonders for me and its hilarious. Running Crimson Path, a Moritat with a plasma and disintegrator pistol with a unit of Devourers jumping out of a landraider or drop pod. Moritat opens up with the d.pistol and should it overheat, its ignored. potential 6 shots from that then 6 more with the plasma really hurts especially vs elite units.

[Irate Khornate]

On 4/5/2023 at 6:54 PM, bluedestiny said:

Not really the best tactic out there, but have worked wonders for me and its hilarious. Running Crimson Path, a Moritat with a plasma and disintegrator pistol with a unit of Devourers jumping out of a landraider or drop pod. Moritat opens up with the d.pistol and should it overheat, its ignored. potential 6 shots from that then 6 more with the plasma really hurts especially vs elite units.

Devourers are the liber panoptica unit right?

[bluedestiny]

Liber Centura.

[Irate Khornate]

So given some time, it seems our inductii are on neutral ground. They do better against most elite infantry with the strength reduction, but fare worse against other ws4 units.

 

Kind of feels like a wash in most cases because I know both are going to be on the board. 

[Heir of Sigismund]

I find inductii too restrictive, so they want us to go after TEQ with these guys but without a special character in the unit? A bit silly

In smaller point games yeah makes sense, but then they have support squad