HH 2.0 The Unbroken Blade: XIVth Legion Tactica

[Slips]

Discussion topic with regards to the Death Guard in the 2nd edition of the Horus Heresy system.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Slips

[ArcNitemare]

With the return of the forums and the new edition ending up in peoples hands finally I think its time for the Unbroken Blades to get down to business.

I feel right now we have a very strong Legion tactic. Fury of the Legion being pretty much always on for our Tacticals means we spit out twice as many bolter shots on average, Heavy weapons not being an issue opens movement up alot, and as a result makes Volkite Calivers a rather viable option on TSS. Combined these factors with Creeping Death and it gives up strong board control.

Now while currently vehicles also are benefiting I see this being changed or nerfed, as being able to go max speed on our tanks and still fire as if we didn't move is big.

Looking forward to everyone's thoughts on this!

Edited June 25, 2022 by ArcNitemare
Word edit that was bothering me.

[Gorgoff]

I can only agree. 

First look says we will doing well.

[SmorcInc]

I noticed earlier that scythes are s+2 (6) ap3 rending6 reaping blow two handed.

The Reaping gives rad grenades to characters for 10ppm.

 

So in exchange for your mobility being limited to cars you get instant death on scythes and mauls at initiative. Or on power axes with Biomancy triggered.

[infyrana]

Creeping Death is certainly getting a lot of praise and I am happy to see my 30k Death Guard get a chunky boost with rules and rites.

Has anyone been running a single or pair of Kratos with their DG Creeping Death, if so, how are you finding them and the weaponry choices for taking on tough units like dreads and spartans?  Or, use other better units for this task?

[Gorgoff]

On 6/26/2022 at 3:34 PM, infyrana said:

Creeping Death is certainly getting a lot of praise and I am happy to see my 30k Death Guard get a chunky boost with rules and rites.

Has anyone been running a single or pair of Kratos with their DG Creeping Death, if so, how are you finding them and the weaponry choices for taking on tough units like dreads and spartans?  Or, use other better units for this task?

I'd take Kratos with maxed out Volkite and nothing else. Kill em with cadence. 

 

[MichaelCarmine]

Just came to my mind - DG is the only Legion, where tanks with ordnance can move and fire all weapons without the penalty of ordnance... noice

[jaxom]

As befits high attrition rates, it seems like Death Guard don't benefit much from Veteran Squads. Is there something I'm missing in terms of being able to move, fire non-assault weapons, and then charge (instead of just moving and shooting)?

[Chaeron]

On 6/26/2022 at 2:34 PM, infyrana said:

Creeping Death is certainly getting a lot of praise and I am happy to see my 30k Death Guard get a chunky boost with rules and rites.

After running this for years, seeing it reworked for the new edition makes me immensely happy!

I confess, I’ve mainly been focusing on building towards a list suitable for The Reaping in the last edition and it’s been a real bonus to see how well massed heavily-armed infantry stacks up now. I’m going to have a play with a few lists and see what comes of it.

I do see a Kratos (or two) in my future when they’re totally restocked: but I can’t comment on their battle effectiveness just yet!

[xxxjtmxxx]

how do Look typical dg lists? 

[Gorgoff]

18 hours ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

how do Look typical dg lists? 

That's up to you. Every legion can make everything. So if you ask if there is a standard list I can tell you that there is none. I've seen assault DG, shooty DG and everything in between. 

What are the models you like the most is way more important. 

[xxxjtmxxx]

i know, but i am building for every Legion a fluffy list of 2000 points with troops that are typical for the Legion. and i have no  clue about the guard 

[Gorgoff]

31 minutes ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

i know, but i am building for every Legion a fluffy list of 2000 points with troops that are typical for the Legion. and i have no  clue about the guard 

Well, they do love their Boltguns. I dtrongly suggest to "get" the Black books and just read their entry in book one. 

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

i know, but i am building for every Legion a fluffy list of 2000 points with troops that are typical for the Legion. and i have no  clue about the guard 

Death Guard were in favor of three styles of forces, with the latter two being more representative of the actual Heresy.

• Infantry heavy. The Death Guard are an infantry army at heart. In lore they really liked bolters, flamers, and meltas. Their legion rule means they can move and shoot effectively with multimeltas and heavy flamers. You can do this with Tactical squads backed up by heavy weapon squads. A Contemptor or Leviathan to back them up and take more specialised weaponry would also be fitting. Pride of the Legion RoW works well here, not because of Veteran Squads, but because you can take two Legion Cataphractii Terminator Squads as your compulsory troops and they get Line.
• Warcrimes Infantry Version - Very similar to the above, but using The Reaping RoW. Heavy Support Squads are now non-compulsory troops, and characters can all take rad-grenades. Throw in some Grave Wardens and/or Destroyers and you're good. If you're a fan of Grave Wardens, consider Typhon Calas as a warlord.
• Warcrimes For Everyone Version - The Creeping Death RoW. The required Siege Break consul lets you take phosphex upgrades for rapiers and aquilor bombards, so pick artillery or tanks or both and have at it! Destroyers with phosphex are also appropriate. 

[xxxjtmxxx]

ok, thanks. 

i will do an da eskaton so this will be my warcrime gang.

the First path is interesting. i think about it earlier because the fists with castellan and the iw with one warlord thread also favors those playstyle. All three also are bolter heavy legions. 

[jaxom]

Creeping Death - vaguely getting the nod from a lot of internet corners, but I've only seen it used in Let's Play videos where they don't have any artillery (neither rapiers nor bombards) to benefit from the Siege Breaker and the rest of the army marching through puddles of phosphex like it's not there. What are people's thoughts on how much phosphex to bring to effectively box out certain areas with Difficult and Dangerous Terrain, but without investing so many points the rest of the army is anemic?

[Charlo]

Honestly just one or two sources is fine. It's a pretty time intensive part of the game and also quite powerful, so depends on your gaming group too. 

[Armillion]

Since destroyers can now take a pair of hand flamers or a pair of volkite serpenta, it occurred to me that Death Guard could uniquely take advantage of double hand flamers.  While hand flamers are kinda meh generally due to wounding on a 5+ (or 4+ if you are Salamanders), since we get Alchem Hand Flamers, it suddenly becomes a lot more viable.

Essentially each model in the squad gets: hitting on 2's (due to the interaction between templates and Gets Hot), always wounding on 2's (against everything), and then go double the number of attacks (gunslinging 2 pistols).

Anything squad without the Heavy type to reroll saves, or things like automata and dreadnoughts, gets absolutely melted due to the sheer number of saves throws you can force.  Even better if used on a Destroyer Assault Squad since you can deep strike them and use your jump pack's 12" movement to get good positioning for all members of the squad to get good coverage.

Against Heavy units, your damage drops quite a bit due to re-rolling saves, especially against Cataphractti where its really not worth bothering (only 1/36 chance of failing a save), but Tartaros and artificer armor units without heavy are definitely fair game.

Alchem flamers in general are a weird spot because swapping the prior edition's Shred for Fleshbane makes 'lighter' flamer weapons far better to use it on, while something like a heavy flamer or flamestorm cannon is kinda meh relative to Gets Hot.

[Chaeron]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:55 PM, jaxom said:

Creeping Death - vaguely getting the nod from a lot of internet corners, but I've only seen it used in Let's Play videos where they don't have any artillery (neither rapiers nor bombards) to benefit from the Siege Breaker and the rest of the army marching through puddles of phosphex like it's not there. What are people's thoughts on how much phosphex to bring to effectively box out certain areas with Difficult and Dangerous Terrain, but without investing so many points the rest of the army is anemic?

This echoes @Charlo, but that sort of management often gets forgotten unless it’s a dedicated strategy! In 1.0, I can probably think of only a handful of times I dealt with the after effects of Phosphex - I’d be keen to see how effective and manageable you find it in this edition. Indeed, as it often would delete squads in areas, I tended to find it simply wasn’t needed in that region again. I could certainly see more relevance and impact for objective-based missions on crowded boards.

[MadJackMcMad]

Hi all,

First time poster - I've just got in to Horus Heresy recently and have been putting together a DG army. I really want to focus on 'creeping death' (e.g. war crime focused) gameplay and to that end am looking to invest in some Destroyer units. My question is whether they would be more thematically appropriate as ground troops, or whether jet pack units would also work? I'm aiming to run a 3k list and am also unsure whether to run Destroyer squads of x5 or x10. Any help you can provide would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Gorgoff]

Both work and I would play both with 10 men. Small units are for 40k. This is 30k, kid. Go big or go home. ;)

 

[jaxom]

On 7/11/2022 at 9:39 AM, MadJackMcMad said:

My question is whether they would be more thematically appropriate as ground troops, or whether jet pack units would also work?

Thematically, on foot. The Death Guard had jump troops, but preferred ground infantry. 

Follow up for discussion: what's the use of rad-missiles (i.e. rad-phage) now? It's on a per model basis, so tagging a multiple model unit seems less than ideal. I was thinking maybe against dreadnoughts and monstrous creatures?

EDIT: Regarding phosphex spam-lite. I won't be getting any games in for awhile, so take this with a grain of salt. It seems from a lot of the battle reports I've watched that creating choke points and disrupting coordinated charges is very valuable. Equally so would be forcing certain gun line units to move or be sitting in a pool of phosphex; the movement reducing fire power and/or breaking open a formation.

Edited July 12, 2022 by jaxom

[Sherrypie]

Ruleswise, amusingly Death Guard jump infantry in Creeping Death gets the gung-ho bonus of being immune to Dangerous Terrain tests. You could have suicidal squads of few Destroyers jumping all over the place throwing phosphex bombs around carelessly while hiding in the nooks and crannies of obscuring terrain (that is also Dangerous Terrain through the whole battlefield for your opponent) under artillery cover while the rest of the line closes in.

Which is still plenty thematically appropriate.

[Brother Sutek]

I don't care if it's not thematic I have two giant squads of assault jump troops and love them. 

[jaxom]

I'm thinking Night Fighting may be something to builds toward. We can have a lot of 24" range firepower.