HH 2.0 The Unbroken Blade: XIVth Legion Tactica

[HeinzD]

Hey you guys, what are your thoughts on grave wardens?

Their shooting is great, especially when paired with Typhon and them having powerfists with cheap upgrade to powerfists is also nice. and their shroud is also great 

But them only being WS and BS 4 at 250pts feels a bit like a bummer. 

Other Elite units with WS5 absolutely destroy them in meele And their shooting isnt really great against 2+ saves.

So, think they are worth their points or are they kind of a waste and a command squad or deathshroud would be better?

[Lord Marshal]

Honestly I really like Grave Wardens, they're an interesting hybrid unit insofar as they don't excel at one role but do both melee and ranged pretty damn well. I think that flexibility still makes them a good pick, even if they're struggling into dedicated melee Terminators.

 

In those situations where your opponent has his mini-Death Star and, presumably, wants to point it at your Grave Wardens (as most players usually want to use their Termies to delete yours) the ideal would be baiting them into suffering a few rounds of shooting before Lock 'em Sock 'em Termies begins. The Assault Grenade Launchers aren't AP2, but Fleshbane usually means sheer weight of dice will score you some kills before they close to melee, nevermind other things shooting at them. In situations where you can't whittle them down their WS4 does show it's flaws, but I still think they're a very good all-rounder. 

 

Deathshroud have the WS to land hits, but you're still fishing for Rendings against Terminators. They can take a blow better than most other Terminators, but they're not fantastic at punching back at anything with 2+ saves. 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Gorgoff]

I now have 55 men in my Death Guard and thought it would be cool to gather a whole company which is made of 100 men as far as I know. 

 

I had the idea of building the company command squad from Beta-Garmon as well as a finish.

 

That would be a nice little conversion project, especially as there are only four guys ever.

 

Then I looked up the Death Guard fluff in the Black Book Betrayal and read up on the organization. And lo and behold,

 

a Death Guard company has a target of 70,000 men.

 

An ambitious figure, which was probably never reached, but curiously, no subordinate structure is mentioned. No further subdivision.

 

How do y'all do that? Was it mentioned somewhere how they did that?

 

 

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Gorgoff said:

An ambitious figure, which was probably never reached, but curiously, no subordinate structure is mentioned. No further subdivision.

 

How do y'all do that? Was it mentioned somewhere how they did that?

 

Nothing explicit, but we have:

Quote

Legionaries were an extension of their sergeants' will, sergeants their captain's, and captain's their commander's, and through them all were instruments of Mortarion, body and soul...  each member of the Legion knew their place and the seniority and tasks of those around them without recourse to heraldry and symbol.... When an officer died in battle, his successor stepped into his place swiftly and decisively without need for orders or discussion, and so the Legion's chain of command was seamless even under the heaviest losses, contributing to the Death Guard's reputation for endurance in war.

Meanwhile Flight of the Eisenstein establishes the Great Companies were led by Captains. To be blunt, I don't think there was a coherent vision in mind between the two and Bligh wrote as if the Great Companies were led by Commanders and otherwise follow Principia Bellicosa for Chapters. We also have tidbits from descriptions. Ancient Skorrvall was described as originally in the 19th Chapter, 1st Great Company  and then Commander of the Death Guard 7th Dreadnought Talon; Ancient Lhorgath was once the commander (lower case c) of the 14th Chapter, 2nd Great Company; Caipha Morarg was in the 24th Breacher Squad, 2nd Great Company; Sollan Gath was in the 33rd Tactical Squad, 6th Great Company; and Crysos Morturg was a Section Leader of the Destroyer Corp. Mortus Poisoners are a poisonship-based cadre within the Destroyer companies.  As it is, here's my thoughts.

• Great Company - senior Captain/Commander
  • Chapter - junior Captain
    • Section - senior Sergeant (Morturg's stats in 1e were a Centurion with an extra wound).
      • Squad - junior Sergeant

[Gorgoff]

Thx for the insights. Makes sll perfect sense so I take it as fact value. 

A chapter is 1000 dudes?

[jaxom]

50 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

A chapter is 1000 dudes?

Chapters in a Legion could have a variable number of companies; I assume and flowing based on recruitment and casualties. The DG, however, we have some clues of their ideal chapter size because of Mortarion’s obsession with 7. 70,000 marines per Great Company; assume 49 chapters per GC because there have to be at least 19 and 49 is 7x7. That’s roughly 1400 marines per chapter or 7x2000. Basically a heavily reinforced “nominal” chapter and I think that makes sense for a zone mortalis legion like the Death Guard.

[Gorgoff]

18 hours ago, jaxom said:

Chapters in a Legion could have a variable number of companies; I assume and flowing based on recruitment and casualties. The DG, however, we have some clues of their ideal chapter size because of Mortarion’s obsession with 7. 70,000 marines per Great Company; assume 49 chapters per GC because there have to be at least 19 and 49 is 7x7. That’s roughly 1400 marines per chapter or 7x2000. Basically a heavily reinforced “nominal” chapter and I think that makes sense for a zone mortalis legion like the Death Guard.

And the next smaller devision would be 200 then?

How do we call that?

Company?

[jaxom]

That could be a section; between 10-20 squads depending on squad size.

[Gorgoff]

10 hours ago, jaxom said:

That could be a section; between 10-20 squads depending on squad size.

Damn so I need to have 200 dudes to play a full section. 

 

What do we put below that? 

Squad level, innit?

[jaxom]

3 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Damn so I need to have 200 dudes to play a full section. 

 

What do we put below that? 

Squad level, innit?

It'd probably be very rare that any part of the Death Guard were operating at full strength. I wouldn't be surprised if by mid-Heresy they'd be at 40-60% strength. And yeah, squad level would be next.