HH 2.0 The Ravenspire: XIXth Legion Tactica

[Slips]

Discussion topic with regards to the Raven Guard in the 2nd edition of the Horus Heresy system.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Slips

[Varyn]

Ahoy there.

 

I am working on a Raven Guard force using the new AoD box and wondered what other RG players had planned for the new edition.

This is the force I am working towards:

 

Vigilator

Contemptor, Melta cannon, melta gun

2 Rapier laser batteries

5 dark furies

10 tactical marines, chain bayonets, vexilla

10 tactical marines, chain bayonets, vexilla

5 tactical support marines, rotor cannons

5 tactical support marines, calivers

5 recon marines, nemesis bolters

5 recon marines, nemesis bolters

vindicator, laser destroyer

 

That's around 1500 points, I'll then add some more armour and a praetor/delegatus to grow to 2000 points.

Infiltrating support squads to get early board control and pressure looks interesting, rotor cannons are a cheap way to try and pin some units and calivers look very good with the extra shot from HH1. I think small infantry squads, recon marines and the vigilator is a good fit for RG.

 

 

 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

There's a lot to be excited about for Raven Guard. Almost assuredly you want to go first based on our reactions and secondary abilities several units offer.

Having infiltrating line troops is a big deal, so healthy squads of 15-20 with chain bayonets and a talon on the sergeant isn't a bad idea. You could also just have 10 man squads harass MEQ. But re-rolls to wound is still important on line troops.

Dreadnoughts are the current hotness and being able to re-roll 1s tonwound in melee is big. 

Then you have both terminator variants that are going to be strong in different ways, being able to take some with fists and chain fists for those pesky 1s to wound in melee is still very strong and should help crack armor as well as opposing dreads. Needing AP 2 is going to be important especially if there's more than 2 dreads in a list, which I could see at least 2 being staples.

Personally I think alpha strike is also going to be strong, having infiltrators with vox to reduce scatter mishaps is big. Deep striking MM land speeders and drop pods is going to be spicy. Especially to take out opponent's Spartan, even with flare shields, you'll at least have the opportunity to do some damage!

Edited June 27, 2022 by Dont-Be-Haten

[MichaelCarmine]

I just don't get, why they screwed the Hawks.

Gaining a 6+ shroud for running Cavalry doesn't sound very tempting, when they get a 5+ through their wargear anyway...

[Dont-Be-Haten]

17 hours ago, Varyn said:

Ahoy there.

 

I am working on a Raven Guard force using the new AoD box and wondered what other RG players had planned for the new edition.

This is the force I am working towards:

 

Vigilator

Contemptor, Melta cannon, melta gun

2 Rapier laser batteries

5 dark furies

10 tactical marines, chain bayonets, vexilla

10 tactical marines, chain bayonets, vexilla

5 tactical support marines, rotor cannons

5 tactical support marines, calivers

5 recon marines, nemesis bolters

5 recon marines, nemesis bolters

vindicator, laser destroyer

 

That's around 1500 points, I'll then add some more armour and a praetor/delegatus to grow to 2000 points.

Infiltrating support squads to get early board control and pressure looks interesting, rotor cannons are a cheap way to try and pin some units and calivers look very good with the extra shot from HH1. I think small infantry squads, recon marines and the vigilator is a good fit for RG.

 

 

 

List looks fine. Here's my thoughts.

First you probably want a full 10 man dark fury squad. 5 guys won't last very long, and you really want 3 choosers of the slain.

I also think Recon squads are okay but a Mor Deythan squad in a rhino is better. Especially with BS 5 and the ability to prioritize killing a specific unit once per game. The rending (4+) is huge for singling out something with teeth.

You can't really go wrong with Raven Guard but the RoW is a strong niche even at the expense of heavy slots.

[MichaelCarmine]

I also recommend Mor Deythan - although i myself run them with Plasma, i think the real kicker will be Combi-Volkite.

Since you can now fire both weapons as part of a shooting attack, that means, that at 12" you get 4 shots per dude with Rending (4+).

And correct me if im wrong, but deflagrate will also trigger Rend on 4+?! so 10 guys can bring 40 shots of Rending (4+) with 20 of those shots triggering deflegrate...

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I do believe they stack yes.

Something that warrants discussion is a squad of deliveres versus regular cataphractii. Having the ability to not be insta gibbed unless it's S10 weapons onto of re-rolling to wound rolls of 1 is impressive. 

I don't plan on running Corax in my primary lists so there's not really a down side to taking them over the other variant.

[corvus.calvariam]

3 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

I also recommend Mor Deythan - although i myself run them with Plasma, i think the real kicker will be Combi-Volkite.

Since you can now fire both weapons as part of a shooting attack, that means, that at 12" you get 4 shots per dude with Rending (4+).

And correct me if im wrong, but deflagrate will also trigger Rend on 4+?! so 10 guys can bring 40 shots of Rending (4+) with 20 of those shots triggering deflegrate...

Deflagarate shots unfortunately do not get the 4+ Rending as the rule specifically states it does not benefit from special rules from the attacking model, which would include Fatal Strike.

The Raven Guard are in a very weird spot in that when our rules work, they work pretty well, mainly Talons. However, there are many instances of things not working, and there are quite a few units that do not benefit from our rules at all.

Falcons - Dark Furies and Assault Marines with chainswords do not benefit from the reroll of 1s to wound when charging due to them already possessing Shred. The main things I see that would get boosted would be powerfist users such as Terminators and Dreadnoughts

Hawks - As you pointed out earlier, Bikes and jetbikes just get a better version of the Shrouded save by default, which is really puzzling. I guess it's nice to have on vehicles, but I don't expect the 6+++ to have much of an impact in games.

Edited June 28, 2022 by raeho

[MichaelCarmine]

Yeah, but they need battle hardened, to be competitive, since they sadly don't have access to high str. melee weapons...

Mine will make use of Ravens Talons for half the squad, rest with axes/mumtimeltas/Combiweapons.

1 minute ago, raeho said:

Deflagarate shots unfortunately do not get the 4+ Rending as the rule specifically states it does not benefit from special rules from the attacking model, which would include Fatal Strike.

Atleast with 4+ rend you'll get a lot of deflegrate xD

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I think it depends on how you want to use your terminators. I agree a healthy number of power axes and MM or Auto cannons is a good spread coming out of a spartan. Though regular cataphractii with power fists can take on AV and dreads. Just in different ways.

[The Scorpion]

Is Recon Company good for the Legion now, or do the bonuses overlap?

[Varyn]

I hadn't looked much at Mor Deythan, combi volkite looks like a good option, hopefully with the new plastic special weapon kit someone will make a combi-volkite tutorial!

 

[MichaelCarmine]

So.... since the Deliverers finally dropped and can now be equipped with fists, i'm glad, i waited and didn't build them with poweraxes xD

Also kept deep strike - pretty tough unit!

...as loyalists that is ^^

[Biscuittzz]

Good to have Maun and Nex back. Maun is similar to 1.0 and is practically the same as a similarly equipped Praetor with the Hidden Hand trait minus the fleet bonus. I guess his Nightfall pattern vox gives more value.

Nex seems significantly up-gunned and seems to benefit from the new ruleset better, although he lost the ability to join Destroyers. Will have both in my list.

Darkwing Gunship didn't make the cut so they must feel the current rules placed on a standard Stormeagle is practically the same.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Biscuittzz

[Dont-Be-Haten]

How should we kit out our boys in red? Fists and MM and a few talons splashed in?

[Wolfandraven77]

I think fists and Claws and maybe a combi or two might be nice. I was kind of looking forward to bs5 termies with the infravisor but at 10 pts cheaper per model now  I can live without. 

 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Unless they were BS 5 in 1.0 they've only been BS 4 since the exemplary file but have a WS of 5 which is rather strong. These guys want to be in melee, and getting to re-roll 1s on strength 8 at WS5 is pretty strong!

[Biscuittzz]

11 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

How should we kit out our boys in red? Fists and MM and a few talons splashed in?

Mine will be a nice shade of steel/black/gold. Probably fists and the odd chainfist. Possibly a MM or 2. I think talons are not the most points efficient as we get the re-roll 1s on the fists. Will be good to throw them at units and see the results.

So a rules question that has me confused - Maun can take a command squad as MoTL and has the ability to take a drop pod. Can the command squad join him in the drop pod? Even though they can't take it as an option from their datasheet?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

No problem going black. I'm just going off Canon, Which has them in red armor.

I do believe a healthy combination of fists, axes and maces are all good options for melee variants!

As for the rules question: i understand/interpret it as you purchase the dedicated transport with Maun, and then attach the command squad to the drop pod. The only requirement is that you have the ability to purchase it. However you could also just purchase a claw and put them in that.

 

[MichaelCarmine]

They'll be painted in Carcharadons Grey, 'cause reasons!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

100% ain't mad at it. I hate what corax did to the Terran born.

By the way...Currently my core list consists of

Praetor with paragon blade & volkite pistol

30 tactical with cahin bayonets, vox, scanner

Squad 1. Lightning claw + plasma pistol

Squad 2. Power Sword + plasma pistol

Squad 3. Power fist + plasma pistol 

2 Proteus land speeders with MM & heavy Flamer

10 Deliverers with 5x power weapons 5x power fists 2x MM

Kratos (alternating weapon loadout)

I want to add 10 tartaros Terminators with Spartan as well as 10 Dark Furies, 10 Mor Deythan w shotguns & combi-weapons.

What sounds good to flesh out the unit?

[Varyn]

The list is a good start, I’d consider adding some ranged anti armour; deredeos, lascannon squads, rapiers.

 

I’ve been looking at some combinations and if you take an HQ with a corvid pattern jump pack (paragon blade or dual Raven talons) and The Hidden Hand warlord trait, in a unit of dark furies, the unit gains +5 to charge rolls, if they deep strike (and survive interceptor!) it has potential to do a lot of damage at I5. You could also use decapitation strike to give them 5+ shrouded 
 

 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

4 hours ago, Varyn said:

The list is a good start, I’d consider adding some ranged anti armour; deredeos, lascannon squads, rapiers.

 

I’ve been looking at some combinations and if you take an HQ with a corvid pattern jump pack (paragon blade or dual Raven talons) and The Hidden Hand warlord trait, in a unit of dark furies, the unit gains +5 to charge rolls, if they deep strike (and survive interceptor!) it has potential to do a lot of damage at I5. You could also use decapitation strike to give them 5+ shrouded 
 

 

I've been thinking 2 contempors magnetized have loads of options and real teeth. Once the new Leviathan comes out I'll have him as well.

Deredos I'm hesitant on getting right now just because of the likelihood they may become plastic in the future.

I do have 10 marines currently left to make as support squads in a drop pod to dowse enemy AV in melta.

[MichaelCarmine]

Leviathans are the http://bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/emoticons/censored.gif! Especially the Leviathan Stormcannon, played him in two games, both games he got destroyed in the second turn - but the whole army had to shoot at it, to bring it down. 

First game he destroyed a Spartan with Reaction Fire, and the second game an Sicaran Arcus.

And i'm planning to add 1 or 2, because now we can finally get 3 for 1 HS Slot =]

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So I've been thinking about how to deliver our deliverers. Since they can't take a spartan as a DT do we leave it up to Voxes and try to deepstrike them within range? Or do we put them alongside a unit of Tartaros or other cataphractii and have them hitch a ride in a spartan that way?