HH 2.0 The Ravenspire: XIXth Legion Tactica

[SkimaskMohawk]

Deepstrike only scatters with the initial unit; the rest of the units in the deepstrike assault are just placed. If you take any other pod unit, you can use that to anchor the assault with inertial guidance. The biggest variables are the reserve roll and the disruption roll, not the location.

The spartan bit is confusing; what do you mean put them with another unit? Normal units can't share transport space with other units; it's not the clown cars of 8th+ edition. You can just buy a Spartan as a heavy support and put them in it.

[Varyn]

6 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

So I've been thinking about how to deliver our deliverers. Since they can't take a spartan as a DT do we leave it up to Voxes and try to deepstrike them within range? Or do we put them alongside a unit of Tartaros or other cataphractii and have them hitch a ride in a spartan that way?

I plan on deep striking them, you're paying for deep strike in their points cost, you might as well use it! Deep strike is pretty rare (without rites of war, transports etc) and it's a great way to get an otherwise slow unit directly into your opponents army. Deep striking a single unit is actually quite low risk (apart from interceptor) the problems come when you try and drop in multiple units and your opponent has a vox disruptor.

I think Deliverers with 3 pairs of talons and a couple of power/chain fists is a good load out

 

[MichaelCarmine]

The cool Thing about the new Deep Strike is, that you also don't have to drop the Unit in a circle around the first mode.

Since u only have to be in coherency, you technically could drop 10" away of a unit and still manage to get just short of 1" of the soon-to-be-charged enemy Unit. This too makes Deep Striking sooo much "safer" then before!

I wouldn't use it to this extreme, but it is possible now. xD

[Biscuittzz]

So Maun in a drop pod with a command squad with nuncio-vox. All of this assuming a vox disruptor or similar doesn't mess with our reserves. 

Drop in Turn 2. Pod will scatter very little, Maun and command squad have to immediately disembark due to impact reactive doors rule (If I have to continue with reserve units before this point then the rest is useless), nuncio vox and strato vox both reroll and half the next scatters. Bring down 10 Deliverers practically where you want alongside my two Storm Eagles with 2 Mor deythan squads. 

This is possible? Or do I have to place the pod, then place the terminators and flyers before the pod doors open and the unit disembarks?

[Mandragola]

I like the look of Nex in a squad of 10 Seekers. They don't have shroud bombs but he does, meaning they can fire their kraken rounds at 24" and bolters won't be able to shoot them back. Any characters in the target unit had better duck!

Deliverers are also great. WS5 is a huge benefit but also adding stubborn, deep strike and (if loyalist) Battle-hardened means they'll do horrible things to other people's terminators.

I think the best armament for deliverers is raven's talons. However I'm looking at doing a recon company (deep striking them, as they can't deploy) and I think that means I should give them rather more chainfists, due to a lack of other ways to handle AV14. I think I'll run three with paired claws and two with chainfists. A multimelta would be cool but I'm not sure it's worth the price.

A Telepath Librarian is very strong for Ravenguard I think. Taken without upgrades he can infiltrate with a squad and then hang around switching off reactions and pinning stuff. I think I'd give him a staff so he could bop vehicles at S12, though actually an axe might be a better option so he had some AP as well, to help against dreads. All the options are probably fine and you kind of don't want him fighting much. He's not ideal in terms of the fluff as Corax liked to keep to the Nikea laws, but clearly they had Librarians before that and over the course of the heresy more and more Legions started to ignore the rules out of necessity.

I think I'll usually play a recon company. Recon squads don't benefit hugely from RG rules but actually a squad of snipers and one with shotguns don't set you back that many points and give you a couple of useful Line units. The high chance of going first is a massive bonus to an army that infiltrates though. Otherwise you're kind of just putting your dudes in harm's way.

One other character I'm considering is a Herald. I'd like to have Corax flapping around with 10 Dark Furies, but they don't have Line. A Herald would make them score and add Fear(1), which would have all sorts of utility. A Herald with a jump pack and shotgun is a bit of a silly combo, making use of his fear thing to lower a unit's WS before the Furies go in.

Overall Ravenguard look like a very fun unit to play.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I think I really like having the infiltrating troops to place deepstrikes where they need to be. Like brining in Deliverers drop pods with melta or if i remember (no book in hand) deep striking land speeders with melta to get a chance at side armor pens. And if not that I'd have to look again on deep striking with heavy flamers etc. All in all I'm very excited for the boys in black.

[Varyn]

Really good points raised by Mandragola; the telepathy discipline is very interesting, particularly as Telepathic Fugue can be used in any phase which means that we can charge without worrying about overwatch or evade reactions.

Telepathic Hallucinations is a solid way to pin a unit, if we assume that you score 5 hits (BS5) then most units will fail a pinning check unless they can roll a 3 or lower!

I think I will start my army with a Delegatus joining a unit of Dark Fury's and a Vigilator for picking out apothecaries & sergeants and the Recon Company RoW. 

I know that there are some inconsistencies with the Legion Rules (re-rolling 1's to wound when the legion specific melee weapon has shred etc) but I think that RG are in a good place and they'll be good fun on the tabletop. I've got my first game of HH2.0 (and first game playing RG) next week, so I'm frantically trying to finish building my list!

 

[xxxjtmxxx]

How do you equip your mor deython squads?

[MichaelCarmine]

Combiplasma, because that's what they got last edition. If i find enough, i might exchange the muzzles for Volkite though...

This Edition, i think CombiVolkite will be the winner. 'cause now you can fire both components of a Combi-Weapon so you'll get 4 shots per Dude at 12" with 2 of those getting Deflagrate. If you pop Rending (4+), thats a hell of firework.

Now that everyone in the squad got buffed with an additional attack, wound and access to Powerweapons, you could also throw a few ones in there.

With relentless, the can still charge, after pumping 4 shots out in the shooting phase.

For the Special Weapons i'll keep using Plasma - still a very good Weapon especially against the growing number of Dreadnoughts =]

[corvus.calvariam]

I recently fielded a 10 man Mor Deythan squad armed with combi-volkites against an Ultramarines army, and I used them to intercept Guilliman and a Suzerain squad after I took out their Spartan.

It felt good rolling 40 rending shots, but the Mor Deythan actually failed to make that much of a dent in the unit, facing resistance from the unit's invulnerable saves, Feel no Pain from the attached Primus Medicae, and the 2 wounds on each Suzerain. Fortunately, I had a Tactical Support Squad with meltaguns nearby that managed to bypass the 2 wound/Feel no Pain nonsense.

In future, I'm considering running combi-meltas on my Mor Deythan, for a bit of flexibility by being able to put out 20 rending shots, but also being able to tackle elite units with invulnerable saves and Apothecaries.

Edited July 12, 2022 by raeho

[xxxjtmxxx]

maybe 2 kombi melter and rest volkite combi?

yeah, 10 mor with volkite combi against 10 Cataphractii are around 4 death. with fnp fewer. that does not work. its better for other elite infantry without ++

[MichaelCarmine]

3 hours ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

maybe 2 kombi melter and rest volkite combi?

yeah, 10 mor with volkite combi against 10 Cataphractii are around 4 death. with fnp fewer. that does not work. its better for other elite infantry without ++

If they (Catas) get FnP, that means, that there's a IC in the unit, so they also reroll their 1s (RoW).

I get your point, i just think, that meltas are wasted on Mor Deythan , since they don't benefit (that much) from rending (4+).

If i want to field Meltas, i just use TSS, or  Seekers.

Seekers are much cheaper, also BS5, and with Precision shots (4+) can snipe our ICs or other Chars with relative ease.

[xxxjtmxxx]

yeah thats right. its the question what y want. multi purpose unit or only for one thing.

[Mandragola]

I do rate combi-meltas but I think I'd put them on Seekers rather than Mor Deythan. Rending doesn't help combi-meltas much but precision shots makes them nasty against any target. And of course it probably makes sense to go for something cheap when you're giving them one-shot guns.

[Sweetcurse]

I’m trying to figure out how to kit all my new guys.  I have the new box set, plus 30 more of the same mark vi marines.  25 cataphractii and 5 tártaros.  Two Deimos rhinos and a drop pod.  Also have a Baal Predator unbuilt kit but not sure if allowed to have.  Lastly I have 4 dreads and about 30 mark iv marines from calth. Any advice on weapons for all this?   Also, what do you recommend buying further.  Thanks guys im too new to HH.

[xxxjtmxxx]

2 hours ago, Sweetcurse said:

I’m trying to figure out how to kit all my new guys.  I have the new box set, plus 30 more of the same mark vi marines.  25 cataphractii and 5 tártaros.  Two Deimos rhinos and a drop pod.  Also have a Baal Predator unbuilt kit but not sure if allowed to have.  Lastly I have 4 dreads and about 30 mark iv marines from calth. Any advice on weapons for all this?   Also, what do you recommend buying further.  Thanks guys im too new to HH.

what kind of list do you want to play? covered Operations, straight in the face?  i think all depends on your Masterplan. 

[Sweetcurse]

Probably stealth stuff.  Do love terminators too.  

[xxxjtmxxx]

do you have access to 3d printed parts or bitz? when yes, i would built out of the 70 mk vi mor deythan, Seekers and recon Marines. i think that is the core of every rg list. maybe u could kitbash 10 cata into deliverers. 

i think veterans are also very solid in rg. maybe out of the mk IV.  

[MichaelCarmine]

1 hour ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

do you have access to 3d printed parts or bitz? when yes, i would built out of the 70 mk vi mor deythan, Seekers and recon Marines. i think that is the core of every rg list. maybe u could kitbash 10 cata into deliverers. 

i think veterans are also very solid in rg. maybe out of the mk IV.  

Äääääääh i wouldn't give him that advice in HH2.0!

New edition needs Line units to be able to Score objectives and although Mor Deythan, Seekers and Deliverers could Score in HH1.0, they can only deny in HH2.0...

The only units u mentioned, that has Line are the Recon Squads and they can't be usead as compulsory outside of Recon RoW.

Since the RG Legion Astartes rules are quite handy with granting Infiltrate and Shrouded(6+), i'd recommend building at least 20 of those MK VI into Tactical Marines.

You can infiltrate them right onto objectives, which makes them Stubborn and gives 'em a FnP (6+) or boosts an existing FnP (from an Apothecary) by 1.

Also - if you want to play the RG specific RoWs, RG lacks a bit of "Fire-Support". So i'd also build 10, or 20 MK VI into Tactical Support Squads ( I'd recommend Melta/Volkite Caliver), which you can also infiltrate onto positions with great line of sight, or in case of Meltas (prefferibly in rhinos) very close to a Target.

As mentioned, if you can "kitbash" some Cataphractii into Deliverers, you'd have a rock-hard elite unit (thanks to Battle Hardened (1)), able to have Multimeltas and inbuilt deepstrike!

You can also Build 10 MK VI into seekers, but i'd shy away from outfitting them with Combiweapons, as they'd loose their special ammo Kraken-Bolters.

EDIT: Throw in one or two Dreadnoughts and i think, that's a good core to build upon =]

Edited July 13, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Claws and Effect]

On 7/12/2022 at 5:43 PM, Mandragola said:

I do rate combi-meltas but I think I'd put them on Seekers rather than Mor Deythan. Rending doesn't help combi-meltas much but precision shots makes them nasty against any target. And of course it probably makes sense to go for something cheap when you're giving them one-shot guns.

Disagree on the usefulness of melta on Mor Deythans. I have a 9 man squad with 6 combis and 3 meltaguns, and they've put in some serious work for me. Being able to score penetrating hits on AV14 outside melta range is pretty solid and keeps catching people off guard. 

Kaedes Nex is a beast now. I've been messing around with how all his rules interact and he can do some neat stuff now. 

- He can snipe Sgts and Apothecaries out of units. And thanks to the shroud bombs the squad might not be able to shoot back. 

- Thanks to having the Light sub-type he can Run 14" and still fire his guns at full BS. 

- He has Rampage (3) and Sudden Strike (1). That gives him 8 attacks on the charge striking at I6. 

I've tested him out in a few games already and it looks like the best use for him is to murder backline objective holding units their controller thought were safe. Between 12 shots that hit and wound on 2s and 8 Brutal (2) attacks that wound on 2s, he SHOULD be able to eliminate a basic Tactical Squad a turn. He might not kill them all, but he should kill enough in melee to make them fail morale. 

Overall I couldn't be happier with how they tweaked my favorite character to use. 

[MichaelCarmine]

8 hours ago, Claws and Effect said:

Disagree on the usefulness of melta on Mor Deythans. I have a 9 man squad with 6 combis and 3 meltaguns, and they've put in some serious work for me. Being able to score penetrating hits on AV14 outside melta range is pretty solid and keeps catching people off guard. 

Kaedes Nex is a beast now. I've been messing around with how all his rules interact and he can do some neat stuff now. 

- He can snipe Sgts and Apothecaries out of units. And thanks to the shroud bombs the squad might not be able to shoot back. 

- Thanks to having the Light sub-type he can Run 14" and still fire his guns at full BS. 

- He has Rampage (3) and Sudden Strike (1). That gives him 8 attacks on the charge striking at I6. 

I've tested him out in a few games already and it looks like the best use for him is to murder backline objective holding units their controller thought were safe. Between 12 shots that hit and wound on 2s and 8 Brutal (2) attacks that wound on 2s, he SHOULD be able to eliminate a basic Tactical Squad a turn. He might not kill them all, but he should kill enough in melee to make them fail morale. 

Overall I couldn't be happier with how they tweaked my favorite character to use. 

The thing is - AV14 vehicles are in the front rows of any enemy formation most of the time anyway.

Since infiltrate allows you to deploy just shy of 12" from an enemy now (instead of 18" in HH1.0), and the Melta Threat range of a Rhino squad being up to 20", i don't see much cases, where one would not be in Melta Range of an Av14 vehicle right away. So the Situations, where i would need Rending on my meltas are really scarce.

That's why i think a normal TSS/Seeker Squad with meltas in a rhino would be more than enough and much cheaper.

It's not that i think, Mor Deythan are not effective, don't get me wrong! Just too expensive for that kind of job, i think. =]

Also - since explosions are now Str.8, i'd rather loose a 1wound model to a failed armor save, then a 2wound one. =]

 

100% agree on Nex though, that guy got buffed with the premium stuff!

[MichaelCarmine]

I just re-read the RG Warlord traits and it seems, that i miss-read the Bane of Tyrants Wl-Trait...

I thought, that in a challenge, you'd "just" (i love it) gain a bonus of +1/+2 to Str./Attacks.

When in reality, its a bonus to the Str./ Attacks Charachteristics. So in a challenge wih the enemy Warlord, a RG Praetor with Thunderhammer would hit with Str. 12 (Brutal 2) Attacks (Str. 6 x 2) ... so even a char with T6, or T5 and Battle Hardened(1), which may come in form of the Custodes or Mechanicum, stands no chance of surviving a wound... 

Didn't get that at first! xD

Edited July 15, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Mandragola]

Yeah Nex is awesome, and hugely versatile. You can have him at 24" using his shroud bombs to prevent return fire or get him stuck into melee. I hadn't thought of having him run 14" and fire though - that's mad.

I'd add another potential option too - shooting down planes. It might not come up that often but since he never snap fires you can put 12 S6 shots into an aircraft if he can get within 12" of it.

In general I don't rate tactical support squads. To me they seem just a bit too expensive for what they do. Oddly, they are sometimes more expensive than a comparable HS squad - for example you pay more for a squad of guys with volkite calivers (TSS at 135) than Culverins (HS at 125). For close range melta a seeker squad costs 155 with combi-meltas and a TSS squad is 160 - not very different but the Seekers are BS5 and so on. Since TSSs aren't Line they feel like sort of a waste of a troop choice.

However, I'm looking at taking a recon company and so won't be able to deploy HS squads. That limits my options a lot. I'll be able to have Deliverers drop in despite not being able do deploy but anti-tank is a particular weakness. I'm considering things like Xiphons and Predators in the role. It seems a bit odd that I can't have a guy holding a big gun but I can have a battle tank, potentially including really big stuff like Kratos and super-heavies. It's particularly weird that I'm not allowed Javelin landspeeders, given all the chonky stuff that I can have.

On Mor Deythan, the problem I have is that the models completely fail to represent them. They're supposed to have chainswords but the cloaks mean you couldn't really stick them on if you tried, and you don't really want to give them sniper rifles (and I especially don't, since I have to take two recon squads). I'm actually contemplating leaving them out due to this, though I expect I'll find a place for them. There's actually a counter-argument that we should all take 30 of them with combi-volkites in rhinos to rend away half the enemy army in one shot.

[MichaelCarmine]

12 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

Yeah Nex is awesome, and hugely versatile. You can have him at 24" using his shroud bombs to prevent return fire or get him stuck into melee. I hadn't thought of having him run 14" and fire though - that's mad.

I'd add another potential option too - shooting down planes. It might not come up that often but since he never snap fires you can put 12 S6 shots into an aircraft if he can get within 12" of it.

In general I don't rate tactical support squads. To me they seem just a bit too expensive for what they do. Oddly, they are sometimes more expensive than a comparable HS squad - for example you pay more for a squad of guys with volkite calivers (TSS at 135) than Culverins (HS at 125). For close range melta a seeker squad costs 155 with combi-meltas and a TSS squad is 160 - not very different but the Seekers are BS5 and so on. Since TSSs aren't Line they feel like sort of a waste of a troop choice.

However, I'm looking at taking a recon company and so won't be able to deploy HS squads. That limits my options a lot. I'll be able to have Deliverers drop in despite not being able do deploy but anti-tank is a particular weakness. I'm considering things like Xiphons and Predators in the role. It seems a bit odd that I can't have a guy holding a big gun but I can have a battle tank, potentially including really big stuff like Kratos and super-heavies. It's particularly weird that I'm not allowed Javelin landspeeders, given all the chonky stuff that I can have.

On Mor Deythan, the problem I have is that the models completely fail to represent them. They're supposed to have chainswords but the cloaks mean you couldn't really stick them on if you tried, and you don't really want to give them sniper rifles (and I especially don't, since I have to take two recon squads). I'm actually contemplating leaving them out due to this, though I expect I'll find a place for them. There's actually a counter-argument that we should all take 30 of them with combi-volkites in rhinos to rend away half the enemy army in one shot.

HSS can't infiltrate, since they are "Heavy" and if you use a RG RoW, you could only field one HSS in the Decap RoW. That on HS slot is really precious and, atl least in my case, often reserved for a Leviathan.

So of course, they are more expensive as a HSS, but give you much more freedom.

And in comparison to Seekers, they can fire their weapons more than once, which is, thanks to reactions alone, worth more than one can imagine.

 

And in case of Mor Deythan - just use the Chainswords, that come with the MKIII plastik kit, they are in leather "covers", which can (or have to) be mounted onto the backpack.

Edited July 15, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Claws and Effect]

For shooting at aircraft I'd actually use Nex's Pinpoint Strike profile. It's AP2 with a 24" range. Penetrating hits can potentially explode it, and you don't have to mess around trying to get him within 12" if that would be a bad place for him to be.