HH 2.0 The Ravenspire: XIXth Legion Tactica

[Varyn]

I had another game against Alpha Legion at the weekend and I was comprehensively beaten! Here is my list and my musings after the game:

 

Praetor, corvid jump pack, power fist, MC paragon blade, Hidden Hand WLT

Vigiliator

5 Dark Furys

5 Deliverers, 5x pair of ravens talons

5 recon marines, nemesis bolters, nuncio vox

5 support marines, rotor cannons, nuncio vox

10 breachers, power fist, melta gun (these are a placeholder until my second recon unit is built)

10 tactical marines, vexilla, lightning claw, chain bayonets

Laser rapier

Contemptor, kheres assault cannon, gravis fist, plasma blaster

Sicaran battle tank, volkite sponsons, pintle heavy bolter

Vindicator laser destroyer

 

I used deep strike on the praetor with the Dark Furys and the Deliverers. I think it's very important to pick the right target for the deep strike assault, I rather foolishly chose a unit of Fulmentaris terminators that were hiding out of LoS and hitting my army with their S8 Ap2 missiles, I lost all the Dark Furys to interceptor/overwatch and whilst my praetor killed enough of the unit to win the combat, I failed the sweep and was subsequently charged & killed by a unit of Lernaean terminators. 

I am definitely going to increase the Dark Furys to 9 (with 2 additional chooser of the slain) and I will consider whether it's worth using the Decapitation Strike RoW to get shrouded on the deep striking unit. I have been working towards Recon Company RoW, the re-roll on deployment and seize is a solid benefit, so it's a tricky choice.

I don't think I would use 2 deep striking units in the same army again, I'd either start the Dark Fury's on the table or buy a transport for the Deliverers. The limitation of 1 heavy support choice is quite limiting on Decapitation Strike, I am not sure I would want to 'waste' it on a transport for Deliverers. 

I am building a melta support squad and I'll put them in a rhino, as well as getting a rhino for the tactical squad, for extra movement and protection

 

[WAR]

From my understanding a squad of 10 Dark Furys (with 3 choosers) is the way to go.  Deliverers maybe more beneficial in a larger squad and using the deep strike on them. 

I personally I like the recon company (my space marine army is Raptors 10th co all Phobos/scout armor), but having to take 2 recon or scout squads is my issue.  Mor Deythan are superior to Recon marines and scouts will die quickly. Decapitation strike with HS limit is ok just have to take right HS choice. 

Currently I am building this 1250pt (battlescribe list) -  Decapitation Strike

-Praetor: The Bane of Tyrants  Warlord, Bolt Pistol, Paragon Blade, Volkite Charger +

-Contemptor Dreadnought: Gravis Autocannon, Gravis Power Fist with in-built ranged weapon, Havoc Launcher, Plasma Blaster

-Tactical Squad : Augury Scanner, 14x Bolt Pistol, Bolter, 14x Bolter, Legion Vexilla, 14x Legionaries, Nuncio-Vox, Plasma Pistol . Legion Tactical Sergeant . . Power Weapon: Power Sword

-Tactical Squad : Augury Scanner, Bolt Pistol, 14x Bolt Pistol, Bolter, 14x Bolter, Legion Vexilla, 14x Legionaries, Nuncio-Vox . Legion Tactical Sergeant: Chainsword

-Tactical Support Squad : Augury Scanner, Bolt Pistol, Legion Tactical Support Sergeant, Legion Vexilla, 4x Legionaries, Nuncio-Vox, Rotor Cannon

-Tactical Support Squad : Augury Scanner, Bolt Pistol, Legion Tactical Support Sergeant, Legion Vexilla, 4x Legionaries, Nuncio-Vox, Plasma Gun 

 - Sicaran : 2x Heavy Bolters, Heavy Bolter, Pintle Mounted Heavy Bolter

[Varyn]

I think recon marines and Mor Deythan fill different roles, Fatal Strike is wasted on nemesis bolters, everyone seems to agree that combi volkite is their best load out.

Recon marines have line and work well as snipers holding key areas, using infiltrate to secure areas of the board 

[Lord Krungharr]

21 minutes ago, Varyn said:

I think recon marines and Mor Deythan fill different roles, Fatal Strike is wasted on nemesis bolters, everyone seems to agree that combi volkite is their best load out.

Recon marines have line and work well as snipers holding key areas, using infiltrate to secure areas of the board 

I second that emotion.  Mor Deythan also look good at charging in after shooting with their attack quantities; I put a power lance on the Sgt for challenging or just striking first at MEQs, and may add another 1-2 lances, which they can take in addition to the combi-volkites.  Recon Company with just 2 minimum sniper Recon squads seems pretty good if wanting to outflank units, and somehow getting a Master of Signal in there is extra useful. 

Though for melee units, the Decapitation Strike shrouded upon entry is pretty good too.  Nice thing about Shrouded is (at least from my reading) able to be used vs shooting that causes Instant Death, whereas FNP is not.  

I probably wouldn't deepstrike Dark Furies most of the time but Deliverers being more durable good withstand the enemy's attention better....however I'm also not sure I'd run both Dark Furies and Deliverers.  Deliverers w maybe a couple Raven Talon guys could be good but I'd rather go lances for extra initiative.  Seems like putting the ones who are tough to kill vs things that can't kill them (like MEQs) is best, and then use the bigger guns vs stuff that is hard to kill.

Can any unit use Interceptor?  Or is just units with Augury Scanners or other specific rules/wargear that allows them to do so?  I'm still confused on that.

 

[Mandragola]

Any unit can intercept but those with augury scanners get to do it as a free bonus reaction. Or at least that’s my understanding. 

Deliverers are a problem because they kind of have to deep strike. They can’t cross the board any other way really - though Corax at least gives them scout (and therefore outflank). You also can’t send Cataphracti characters with them, as they can’t deep strike - so no herald, for example. 

But on the plus side they’re awesome. I’m not convinced by the spears idea, mainly because Raven’s talons are so amazing. You get 2A and a very good chance at AP2. There’s nothing that really strikes ahead of I4, that you can kill with a spear, and that threatens a deliverer. A paragon blade praetor isn’t worried about a couple of AP3 attacks. 

I wonder if it makes sense to bring 5 or 6 deliverers and a land raider as your one HS pick in a decapitation strike. It’s a fairly flexible vehicle and there are other things it can carry if there are no deliverers. Reasonable shooting too. 

If you’re playing recon company’s then you can’t deploy deliverers at all, so deep strike is your only option. That might make them a bad idea. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

1 hour ago, Mandragola said:

Any unit can intercept but those with augury scanners get to do it as a free bonus reaction. Or at least that’s my understanding. 

Deliverers are a problem because they kind of have to deep strike. They can’t cross the board any other way really - though Corax at least gives them scout (and therefore outflank). You also can’t send Cataphracti characters with them, as they can’t deep strike - so no herald, for example. 

But on the plus side they’re awesome. I’m not convinced by the spears idea, mainly because Raven’s talons are so amazing. You get 2A and a very good chance at AP2. There’s nothing that really strikes ahead of I4, that you can kill with a spear, and that threatens a deliverer. A paragon blade praetor isn’t worried about a couple of AP3 attacks. 

I wonder if it makes sense to bring 5 or 6 deliverers and a land raider as your one HS pick in a decapitation strike. It’s a fairly flexible vehicle and there are other things it can carry if there are no deliverers. Reasonable shooting too. 

If you’re playing recon company’s then you can’t deploy deliverers at all, so deep strike is your only option. That might make them a bad idea. 

My ultimate goal is a full 15 man squad of Deliverers. It's basically a death star at that point. The biggest point is if you misshap your blob you can still conga-line them where they need to be. If nothing else they are going to be able to walk the board for a turn 2 charge depending on which table mission you draw.

I agree Raven's Talons are absolutely good. I personally think a healthy combination of cheap wound soakers, 2-3 with power weapons, followed by a sergeant with chain fist, 2 Multi-Meltas and the rest with Talons are a solid investment. For a 10 man squad. Biggest key is remembering they re-roll 1s to wound on the turn they charge.

[Claws and Effect]

On 9/4/2022 at 12:43 PM, Mandragola said:

I agree that rhinos are a good option for Mor Deythan in particular. It’s a good way to keep them alive long enough to get into position to unleash their crazy rending volley. It might even be worth sticking a multimelta on the thing for a chance at popping enemy transports. Probably not though. 

I have a multimelta on the Rhino I use for my Mor Deythan. It was an ebay find and already on it. Sucks that it got twice as expensive to use. But since my Mor Deythan are 6 combi meltas and 3 meltas I often take it anyway. 

[Lord Krungharr]

Got my Kaedes Nex primed and ready for the practice paint job.  Better to run him alone or with Mor Deythan?

[Mandragola]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Got my Kaedes Nex primed and ready for the practice paint job.  Better to run him alone or with Mor Deythan?

Not alone in my opinion, as he'll just be shot. He works well with Mor Deythan because he can snipe from within their squad. He also works well with seekers because he gives them shroud bombs, which they don't otherwise have.

[Claws and Effect]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Got my Kaedes Nex primed and ready for the practice paint job.  Better to run him alone or with Mor Deythan?

I like to start him with a squad and then break him off on his own later. 

There's a lot of stuff he can do that he can't do while with a squad (run 14" and shoot at full BS, for example). 

[Lord Krungharr]

Cool, I'll join him up to start and see how it goes.  The trick will be to bring in enough other threats from the flank to give my opponent some tough choices of what to Intercept.

[Claws and Effect]

Also keep in mind that Nex ignores the normal rules for Flanking Assault if he's by himself. He can just show up wherever he wants. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I've recently started converting some 40k assault marines into 30k. It's a very fluffy addition, and I feel like 2 squads may be a strong contender for fast hit and run tactics, plus I think most events are focusing on line and it's importance so im going to increase my troop options, and having fast scoring units that can jump over terrain and LoS blocking modules for end game contesting/scoring is a solid option. Hawk sergeants gaining re-roll 1s on their power weapons, especially on maces seems like a clear cut winner for troop hunting.

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah Line I think will be making or breaking many games.  That 1 extra point for an objective comes in handy when every gets slay the warlord and you don't get first blood....

I have 2 units of 10 jump assault squads.  Didn't put any power weapons in there yet, maybe that's a good thing to magnetize?

Had a fun thought......take Corax, who would give a Mortifactor Scout.....join Mortifactor to a Contemptor.....Outflank the Contemptor w Mortifactor since Scout confers to the unit joined.  Rules legal?  If so, stupid to do?  

[Dont-Be-Haten]

What do we think is a strong play for an Assault Squad?

I'm torn between to fields of thought. I know I want to roll maces on the squad, but for the sergeant is a pair of Raven Talons the play? Or do we think a powerfist?

Re-rolling 1s at S6 is definitely good. I really think it's dual talons over a fist, even if that overlaps the hawk special ability. Even so, I think an Apothecary with Jump Pack and a power weapon to compliment the squad is for sure a good play!

[Lord Krungharr]

I'll be trying out my assault squads next week if all goes well and I'll report how they did with power lances.

[TheNineteenth]

11 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I'll be trying out my assault squads next week if all goes well and I'll report how they did with power lances.

I have mine modeled with 1/5 Axes and 1/5 Hand Flamers, so am curious to see what will work well this time around.

[Varyn]

I thought about using assault squads, but I ended up going for despoilers as they can infiltrate and the 6+ shrouded is handy. Obviously it prevents a T1 charge but it gives you options to control the table early on (thanks to Cadmus Tyro for his sage advice on this).

Despoilers also benefit from Spite/Heart of the Legion which is useful, assault squads don’t get either of these rules.

The load out I’m running is 10 with 2 power swords, power fist and vexilla

 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

11 hours ago, Varyn said:

I thought about using assault squads, but I ended up going for despoilers as they can infiltrate and the 6+ shrouded is handy. Obviously it prevents a T1 charge but it gives you options to control the table early on (thanks to Cadmus Tyro for his sage advice on this).

Despoilers also benefit from Spite/Heart of the Legion which is useful, assault squads don’t get either of these rules.

The load out I’m running is 10 with 2 power swords, power fist and vexilla

 

Yeah but you can drop in a Chaplain and an Apothecary into the unit and have a LD 10, stubborn 5++ 12" movement squad of 10-20 dudes with 4 power maces and a pair of Raven's talons

And it annihilate other troops after you snipe out their Apothecaries and sergeants with your Mor Deythan.

[Claws and Effect]

It occurs to me that a Storm Eagle is perfectly viable as transport for a unit of up to 11 Deliverers. Can make the unit smaller if you want to run a Cataphractii Primus Medicae with them (makes them stupid hard to shift). 

[MichaelCarmine]

1 hour ago, Claws and Effect said:

It occurs to me that a Storm Eagle is perfectly viable as transport for a unit of up to 11 Deliverers. Can make the unit smaller if you want to run a Cataphractii Primus Medicae with them (makes them stupid hard to shift). 

Rule of cool, maybe.

Deliverers have Deep Strike, so they can drop by themselves, which is much saver and best case, they are able to charge turn 2 instead of 3 (depending on RoW) =]

Atleast in my local meta, flyers usually do not survive their table-debut, which would result in the whole unit of deliverers taking S10AP2 hits, ignoring their BattleHardened(1)...

[Claws and Effect]

10 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

Rule of cool, maybe.

Deliverers have Deep Strike, so they can drop by themselves, which is much saver and best case, they are able to charge turn 2 instead of 3 (depending on RoW) =]

Atleast in my local meta, flyers usually do not survive their table-debut, which would result in the whole unit of deliverers taking S10AP2 hits, ignoring their BattleHardened(1)...

That's how I usually use my Deliverers. 

Seemed like it would be fun to do though. My local meta doesn't have as much anti-air firepower outside of a few players. 

[WAR]

I was thinking of adding a Warmonger Consul (in Cataphractii  Terminator armor w/ Paired Raven claws) with my 15 man Deliverer squad and maybe a Primus Medicae in Cataphractii armor too

 

[TheNineteenth]

1 hour ago, WAR said:

I was thinking of adding a Warmonger Consul (in Cataphractii  Terminator armor w/ Paired Raven claws) with my 15 man Deliverer squad and maybe a Primus Medicae in Cataphractii armor too

 

The Warmonger could Deep Strike with them, but the PM couldn't. Maybe you had a different mobility scheme in mind?

[Slips]

Take a foot PM with a Jump Pack, worst case.