What does the impulsor need to be desirable?

[Orange Knight]

A 50% reduction in it's cost would be a start.

It generally suffers in the same way as all Astartes vehicles in the current codex.

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

The shield dome option needs to now give it either a 4+ invuln or something else that is useful, maybe a -1 to Hit, to counter the fact that AoC is so powerful against any weapon with less than AP -4. Right now it is a 15 point option that does literally nothing unless you are facing a lot of meltas.

If your opponent is pointing melta at an Impulsor, it is probably better than if they are pointing it at something more valuable (unless it still has its cargo inside).

Edited August 4, 2022 by Karhedron

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

think about a Raider which is one of the reasons why Drukhari are as strong as they are. 

GW have mentioned in previuos editions that Transports are partially priced on the basis of the cargo they are transporting but I don't think that is true any longer. The most valuable cargo you can put in an Impulsor are probably BGVS (210 points for a full squad). Raiders Can take 10 Incubi which weigh in at 180 points. I don't think anyone would argue the Impulsor is superior to the Raider, despite costing more points. +1W and +1T are not much help against S8/9 anti-tank weapons. The Raider gets the 5++ built-in and can take a heavy weapon as well. The Impulsor gets a 3+ save and AoC which are an improvement but not enough to swing the balance IMHO.

[Emperor Ming]

Also if you have six blade guard in and it dies, even loosing one is a horrifying thought

Then if it explodes killing more of your guys

Sometimes I think its better just to spend the points on more boots on the ground

[Malakithe]

The Devilfish is 95pts with Fly, can deepstrike, can carry 12, and has actual firepower. I feel GW doesnt look at all the other factions stuff when they have tunnel vision for what they are currently doing

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I don't know if more firepower would help, Black Templar ones can take Multi Meltas, and that hasn't had a big impact on them taking them 

[Emperor Ming]

It would be something like 130 with a multimelta

That's just insane for a six capacity transport

 

[Medjugorje]

3 hours ago, Brother Adelard said:

I don't know if more firepower would help, Black Templar ones can take Multi Meltas, and that hasn't had a big impact on them taking them 

Laeroth will try it on the next tourney and I had partly success with them too. I still think for BT it is a good option although its overcosted. -20 points and i am sure you will see it more often.

 

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Which is kinda my point, the cost is more of a deal-breaker than anything else.

[Toldavf]

A disposable metal box is only good if it's cheap. 35 point rhinos spring to mind.

[XeonDragon]

1. Cheaper.

2. Transport capacity of 8+

3. As an "assault vehicle", it should be able to either advance and have models disembark, or make a normal move and have models disembark (as it current can) but with a bonus (maybe +2) to charge for the disembarking models if it didn't advance.

As a side note, all transports should have the ability to move, then have the models disembark. Impulsors should be able to advance and do that. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by XeonDragon

[Medjugorje]

But they already can move 14" then disembark 3" and still advance 6+d6 (the infantry) and still shoot. Its not possible to charge.

[Karhedron]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:32 AM, Medjugorje said:

But they already can move 14" then disembark 3" and still advance 6+d6 (the infantry) and still shoot. Its not possible to charge.

They can get infantry places fairly fast but not really the ones that need to go at speed. The only Primaris with really short ranged weaponry are Aggressors and Eradicators. Both are Gravis and so can't fit in an Impulsor. You can fit a squad of Hellblasters + Character in there but even with the Assault 3 variant, that is not a massive amount of firepower.

Some races can do well with cheap infantry in expensive Transports but the Transport really needs to be able to pull its weight as a unit in its own right (e.g. Wave Serpents) but the Impulsor really can't do that. Our best shooty squads don't fit and our melee squads can't disembark and assault after movement. The Impulsor is hampered by weird restrictions that prevent it from working effectively with any of the units it might transport.

If you gave it the Open Topped rule then Hellblasters for drive-by shooting could be a thing. If you allowed squads to Assault after disembarking after movement then BGVs would love it although arguably that might be too strong. The Impulsor just does not seem to have a niche.

[Medjugorje]

thats partly correct. But in lot of my games i just need one round with my impulsors - sometimes 2 rounds. A BGV or Sword Brethren squads can move 14" then disembark and advance into a very good postion behind a wall. But yes... if you play against a fast melee oriented army its important to stay inside the vehicle until you want to charge.

[XeonDragon]

On 8/6/2022 at 8:32 PM, Karhedron said:

 

If you gave it the Open Topped rule then Hellblasters for drive-by shooting could be a thing. If you allowed squads to Assault after disembarking after movement then BGVs would love it although arguably that might be too strong. The Impulsor just does not seem to have a niche.

Love both those ideas. In terms of BGV + impulsor being too strong if the implusor could move and/or advance and then the BGV disembark and charge, that could be dealt with by (for example) imposing a -1 to hit or -1 attack in combat following a turn in which they disembark + charge from an impulsor that moved. Make the player choose between hitting right away without (in effect) shock assault or at -1 to hit, or getting out, weathering a storm of shooting, then charging at full effect. 

Personally, not sure it would be overkill. I think VGVs without jump packs can theoretically come down, disembark and then charge, and we don't see that happening often, even for melee armies. If I am correct, it might point to the limited utility that BGV hoping out of an implusor in the same turn it moved and charging might have? 

[ppmi]

On 8/4/2022 at 12:42 PM, Karhedron said:

The most valuable cargo you can put in an Impulsor are probably BGVS (210 points for a full squad). Raiders Can take 10 Incubi which weigh in at 180 points. 

The diference is that incubi are glass canons so they benefit a lot more for the transport than the BGVS since thoose pay quite a bit for their resilience

[Vanger]

Points drop.

Troop capacity of 10 if no upgrade is taken.

HOVER keyword. Something like: you can ignore any terrain feature that is not higher than 2" for the purpose of movement.

Able to transport gravis.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Vanger

[Captain Idaho]

I've been thinking on this and I think the issue is more to do with the lack of a need to transport units around the table. Well, that's not quite true. The benefits to spending points on transporting a unit around a table is less than saving the points and just marching up the table.

With smaller table sizes and just the way the game is, spending points on transports for Marines is a difficult thing to do, since we normally need as many points for units as possible.

Currently, the game can do with ultra cheap transports but only when said transports aren't breaking the game by spamming weapons into the army. Even then though, it depends on the army.

Marines aren't really benefiting from expensive transports that are weapons platforms so I think Codex Space Marines can afford to have undercosted transports and it not break the game.

Rhinos at 35pts, Impulsor at 45pts plus weapons? Even if it's just a discount for each "Mechanised" keyword unit in the army.

Definitely cheaper.

[Medjugorje]

The problem in this edition is that a expensive unit MUST deliver on the battlefield after the cheapest normal unit is 90 points which are needed for screening + actions and characters are way more expensive then of other armies ( and dont work alone - while other armies have an additional unit which can work alone ). Then each model which is lost by a one for a disembark after getting destroyed is a bad mechanic (should be mortal wounds).

 

So the Impulsor should have the ability to allow the unit to disembark after 6" movement and still allow the unit to charge + special disembark after the impulsor is destroyed so that your units are more safe ( 2 throws of 1s for a squad of BGV and the unit cant do anything - cost 70 points which other armies pay for a complete unit.

 

Land Raider and Repulsors need even better rules for that because 250+ points just for a model like special bonus after disembarkings and far better movement/placement for the embarked unit.

[Toldavf]

landraiders will be on par with the chaos ones. Can't see charge after you get out being a thing in marines again, I lived through the rhino rushes of 3rd don't think it should com back with BG/impulser rushes.

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Toldavf said:

landraiders will be on par with the chaos ones. Can't see charge after you get out being a thing in marines again, I lived through the rhino rushes of 3rd don't think it should com back with BG/impulser rushes.

I find myself in relutcant agreement. Harlequins are famed for their speed and can manage 11+3D6" when they disembark before moving. That is surprisingly scary but balanced by them being squishy T3 5++ elves. Imagine a squad of Terminators that could do 18+2D6". As much as I love the idea, I think it would be broken.

[Lord_Ikka]

I agree that we shouldn't have super-cheap transports that are a bane, but they should at least be useful for something and right now they aren't.

[Toldavf]

39 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

I agree that we shouldn't have super-cheap transports that are a bane, but they should at least be useful for something and right now they aren't.

Being cheap is a quality all of its own generally you don't mind paying 50ish points for a metal box. Imperial transports are over costed in general no way an impulser should be more than a devilfish .

[Medjugorje]

20 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I find myself in relutcant agreement. Harlequins are famed for their speed and can manage 11+3D6" when they disembark before moving. That is surprisingly scary but balanced by them being squishy T3 5++ elves. Imagine a squad of Terminators that could do 18+2D6". As much as I love the idea, I think it would be broken.

Black Templars used to do this in start of this edition. 6" in the opponent phase + 5 movement + 1 movement from Helbrecht + d6 by advancing. is up to 18"

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, I just had my first post-Nephilim game this week, and at 1000 points, even as a Raven Guard player, I was wishing I had one. I used a CP for a Warlird Trait and a Relic, leqving me with just 1CP. That's not a lot for deployment shenanigans. I agree, they are cost prohibitive for what they offer.  But still, there was an objective in the far corner, in no man's land, that my opponent made no move for, despite being much closer. An Impulsor would have dumped my Bladeguard, or a unit of Intercessors right on it. Not only that, but as I was facing a very mele oriented Emperor's Children force, the Impulsor could have charged into another unit to hopefully give my bladeguard at least a turn of breathing room. 

It needs a point drop. The Shield Dome needs to offer a 4++. I hate hate HATE seeing Stubber on Astartes vehicles! You know what would be better? A Heavy Bolter instead of the Heavy Stubber, but not just the basic Heavy Bolter, all the variations that Heavy Intercessors have access to. That would be very cool. If you could take a Heavy Bolter, and the Bellicatus Missile Launcher, that would be a good Infantry Fighting Vehicle.

It's a fast Armored Personnel Carrier (APC) not a tank, nor an Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV). It gets me to a destination, and fast. It doesn't drop me close and advance with me. How can it? All it has are 2 Storm Bolters and maybe a Heavy Stubber. It can do some light clean up, but mostly you want your disembarking Marines to do the heavy lifting. 

I also agree that disembark and charge is too broken. I like the idea of an aggressive mechanized list where you have lines or blocks of Impulsors, zooming around to drop infantry off at advantageous firing positions.