What does the impulsor need to be desirable?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Jacques Corbin said:

Well, I just had my first post-Nephilim game this week, and at 1000 points, even as a Raven Guard player, I was wishing I had one. I used a CP for a Warlird Trait and a Relic, leqving me with just 1CP. That's not a lot for deployment shenanigans. I agree, they are cost prohibitive for what they offer.  But still, there was an objective in the far corner, in no man's land, that my opponent made no move for, despite being much closer. An Impulsor would have dumped my Bladeguard, or a unit of Intercessors right on it. Not only that, but as I was facing a very mele oriented Emperor's Children force, the Impulsor could have charged into another unit to hopefully give my bladeguard at least a turn of breathing room. 

It needs a point drop. The Shield Dome needs to offer a 4++. I hate hate HATE seeing Stubber on Astartes vehicles! You know what would be better? A Heavy Bolter instead of the Heavy Stubber, but not just the basic Heavy Bolter, all the variations that Heavy Intercessors have access to. That would be very cool. If you could take a Heavy Bolter, and the Bellicatus Missile Launcher, that would be a good Infantry Fighting Vehicle.

It's a fast Armored Personnel Carrier (APC) not a tank, nor an Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV). It gets me to a destination, and fast. It doesn't drop me close and advance with me. How can it? All it has are 2 Storm Bolters and maybe a Heavy Stubber. It can do some light clean up, but mostly you want your disembarking Marines to do the heavy lifting. 

I also agree that disembark and charge is too broken. I like the idea of an aggressive mechanized list where you have lines or blocks of Impulsors, zooming around to drop infantry off at advantageous firing positions. 

I really wish they had a more razorbacky loadout than the twin stubber or missile launcher.

Transport capacity of a razorback, but without the firepower 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Lemondish]

22 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I really wish they had a more razorbacky loadout than the twin stubber or missile launcher.

Transport capacity of a razorback, but without the firepower 

That's a great point. Basically, we're looking at a unit that can deploy some shooty cargo a turn ahead of the other metal boxes by virtue of the assault ramp, but that feature has zero impact on melee units and its capacity is so low that the shooty stuff just isn't moving the needle.

In comparison, look at how you can stuff 3 Wound Chosen into a flipping Rhino. The benefits of higher, less restricted capacity will overcome the meager shooting advantage of the assault ramp and armaments on an Impulsor.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Lemondish

[lansalt]

At least BT Impulsors can use a multi-melta with the dome, that must be the best load out for them in the game.

[UnkyHamHam]

Would be nice if it could get a pregame "scout" move if it's contents are Phobos only. 

I know the strategem hate train is in full force around these parts. But given the current rule trends, maybe giving it a strat to allow units to charge after disembark.

[Captain Idaho]

I feel like a pre-game move with Phobos only models won't help simply because they all infiltrate and just don't have the killing capacity to make it worth while otherwise.

I just feel it's the main rules of 40K that makes using a transport less relevant than it used to be. Missions, smaller tables, that sort of thing.

[UnkyHamHam]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

I feel like a pre-game move with Phobos only models won't help simply because they all infiltrate and just don't have the killing capacity to make it worth while otherwise.

I just feel it's the main rules of 40K that makes using a transport less relevant than it used to be. Missions, smaller tables, that sort of thing.

Agree on 40k transport rules. Just wanted to remind you about Reivers.  They don't have infiltrate. 

If Impulsors could carry Firstborn, would they be more viable? 

Like they really only carry 3 things at the moment of any consequence: Bladeguard (or lesser threat Assault Ints/Incursors), Hellblasters, or one of the half dozen bolter primaris squads. 

If you could pop out Vets or Devs would things be different? 

[Toldavf]

I mean transports used to be allot more relevant in editions where you couldn't get a D6 extra of movement. If you only ever move 6 without your rhino they suddenly become much more desirable.  

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

I feel like a pre-game move with Phobos only models won't help simply because they all infiltrate and just don't have the killing capacity to make it worth while otherwise.

I just feel it's the main rules of 40K that makes using a transport less relevant than it used to be. Missions, smaller tables, that sort of thing.

If I’m not mistaken not all units were able to run/advance in previous editions, right?

maybe 10th should do away with that, and only real fast moving infantry can advance, thus making transports way more useful.

 

edit

the post directly above me already touched on this point lol

Edited August 14, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Lemondish]

6 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

I feel like a pre-game move with Phobos only models won't help simply because they all infiltrate and just don't have the killing capacity to make it worth while otherwise.

I just feel it's the main rules of 40K that makes using a transport less relevant than it used to be. Missions, smaller tables, that sort of thing.

Agreed here, though I did notice that the instances where we see Rhinos, for example, tend to be for units that need the extra protection or need the extra mobility. Some examples are like the Rhino rush Death Guard lists lately, which are moving tooled up Plague Marine squads so they can contest objectives sooner, or various T3 Sisters bodies in a Sororitas Rhino. I'm unfamiliar with anything other than Imperium, but the Wave Serpent, Devilfish, and whatever nonsense the Drukhari are flying around seem pretty popular.

[Lemondish]

5 hours ago, UnkyHamHam said:

Agree on 40k transport rules. Just wanted to remind you about Reivers.  They don't have infiltrate. 

If Impulsors could carry Firstborn, would they be more viable? 

Like they really only carry 3 things at the moment of any consequence: Bladeguard (or lesser threat Assault Ints/Incursors), Hellblasters, or one of the half dozen bolter primaris squads. 

If you could pop out Vets or Devs would things be different? 

A bit, I imagine. But it's the capacity that is a problem but I think you bring up a good point about this. Would carrying Firstborn usurp common transport options for Marines, or even provide something unique? I'd say no, not at this price, and that's all because of the capacity.

Right now you could spend 110 bones or so to move six bodies into position and shoot a turn ahead of time. Or you could put 10 inside an 80 point Rhino and shoot the turn after they move. Or you could just go 70 deep on a Drop Pod if you're really into the speed, which then becomes both mobility, protection, and delivery all at once. Is it really worth the premium to get 1 earlier turn of firepower out there for 6 models when you can get a metal box to ferry 10 into position for the following turn for a significant discount?

Maybe the new Leagues transport has a solution for this. The Sagitaur ATV was described as working in pairs taking full squads that are split across both units. What if Impulsors were given that rule? A total of 12 slots that you could split across 2 hulls. Couple that with a points reduction and a loosening of restrictions regarding Gravis bodies (Gravis counts as 2, for example), and you'd have a pretty solid unit providing something the other Marine transports can't. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Lemondish

[lansalt]

The way to solve the less-firepower-than-a-Razorback-but-the-same-transport-capacity is to give it the open topped rule. Put a squad of hellblasters inside and you've made relevant two units of the codex at the same time.

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Lemondish said:

I'm unfamiliar with anything other than Imperium, but the Wave Serpent, Devilfish, and whatever nonsense the Drukhari are flying around seem pretty popular.

I know both flavours of Eldar so I can see where both transports fit in the respective lists. The Wave Serpent costs a bit more than an Impulsor but brings better firepower and can transport 12 infantry. Also, Eldar have lots of glass hammer units like Banshees and Fire Dragons. The ability to get these hitty but fragile units close to the enemy is valuable. 

Raiders and Venoms on the other hand are cheap enough to spam. Venoms are particularly good as they come with both a 5++ and -1 to Hit making them irritating to take down in numbers. Combine with cheap Troops and you have ways to nab distant Objectives for minimal points.

The key in both cases is they synergise with the units they transport in a way the Impulsor just doesn't. And they do so at a price point that makes them competitive. If you drop the price of the Impuslor enough, eventually it will be worth taking just as a metal bawkse. But really to make it appealing it needs to have some synergy with the units onboard.

[Medjugorje]

The Eldar and Dark Eldar have "FLY" which is sooo important. Then thy have far more effecient units which costs are lower but deal so much more damage per point and drukhari can even shoot inside the vehicle because "open topped".

 

Both, the serpent and the drukhari raider have lances

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

12 hours ago, lansalt said:

The way to solve the less-firepower-than-a-Razorback-but-the-same-transport-capacity is to give it the open topped rule. Put a squad of hellblasters inside and you've made relevant two units of the codex at the same time.

I mean is it really making either relevant if they both need to be paired? 
 

now I’m not just paying for a transport to carry a squad I’d normally put in my list, but now I’m also paying points and a slot for a whole other squad i otherwise wouldn’t pick.

open topped and transport gravis as 2 models, and maybe. 
imagine a squad of aggressors speeding up the table and adding their firepower to the vehicle’s.

[Lemondish]

18 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I mean is it really making either relevant if they both need to be paired? 
 

now I’m not just paying for a transport to carry a squad I’d normally put in my list, but now I’m also paying points and a slot for a whole other squad i otherwise wouldn’t pick.

open topped and transport gravis as 2 models, and maybe. 
imagine a squad of aggressors speeding up the table and adding their firepower to the vehicle’s.

Hell, a squad of Aggressors speeding up the table and piling out to immediately shoot is worth considering on its own, I think, even before considering open-topped.

[lansalt]

18 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I mean is it really making either relevant if they both need to be paired? 
 

now I’m not just paying for a transport to carry a squad I’d normally put in my list, but now I’m also paying points and a slot for a whole other squad i otherwise wouldn’t pick.

open topped and transport gravis as 2 models, and maybe. 
imagine a squad of aggressors speeding up the table and adding their firepower to the vehicle’s.

I used hellblasters as just an example of an unit that should work with it. My point is that the Impulsor must have something relevant, and its most significant visual feature is being an open topped transport, so let's give the rule to it to justify the price.

In the other hand, I think elite Gravis units or Blade Guard/veterans should not be able to use Impulsors. Otherwise it's a bit undignified to see the elite of the chapter dismount from pickup trucks like a bunch of hicks

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The assault ramp is great for a Libby popping out and casting Null Zone.