Does an IC in a unit need to be in base to base to attack in melee, or just coherency?

[Xenith]

Had this come up in a game yesterday, and I couldn't find a reference.

Does an IC within a unit need to make into base to base contact in able to attack in melee, or do they count as 'part of the unit' for the rule that says they have to be within coherency of a model from the same unit that is within B2B?

Previous editions forced the IC to make into B2B, however the IC rule in HH2.0 doesn't state this, and just says that the IC is part of the unit. The attacking rules say that a model can attack if it's within coherency of a model from the same unit that is in B2B contact (another change from 6th?).

Any ruling or page number would be super helpful, thanks! 

[OnyxUltraKnight]

Yes Characters do fight as part of the unit they are attached to.

Core Rules, page 198:

Quote

Characters and Assaults

Remember that a Character that has joined a unit follows all the normal rules for being part of a unit. If a Character is in a unit that Charges into close combat, the Character Charges too, as it is part of the unit. If the Character’s unit is locked in combat, they fight as part of the unit.

As they’re treated as a model from the unit they are attached to, the Character follows regular rules for fighting a combat.

[Canadian_F_H]

That's what I thought too.

To be fair, I thought we were putting characters into B2B out of habit because it looks cool, not the rules...  and the rules also said (at some point) to put challengers into B2B with each other and challenges were very common back then anyways.

[Tyriks]

I believe challenges still go in base to base contact but I don't have my rulebook to find a citation.

[SkimaskMohawk]

14 minutes ago, Nemesor Tyriks said:

I believe challenges still go in base to base contact but I don't have my rulebook to find a citation.

Challenges basically make the participants teleport to get into base to base. Though they only have to both be engaged in the same combat to start it.

[Valkyrion]

What effect on gameplay does it have if you just say your challengers are in base to base? Does it have a positive or negative bearing if you don't bother moving them if they are already part of a unit? 

Things like this I tend to need an example for instead of just reading the rules. 'Why X if Y? Because of Z', type of thing.  One day an example will happen naturally and I'll be 'oh, that's why that's a rule', and it's always a kick in the balls when it's you on the receiving end!

[Canadian_F_H]

I cant think of much of a "reason"  but j know it can effect some things.

 

like any rules that are "within x" of this model" type of stuff will be effected because the model moved.  As the game progresses the location of the model that is supposed to be moved might matter.  Ie, after the combat is over they may or may not be in LoS of a sniper because of the move.  

That's just effects caused by the rule tho. Not reasons why it's a rule.  I assume the reason for the rule, is rule of cool.  These guys are in a duel, so they should look like they are in a duel.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Canadian_F_H

[SkimaskMohawk]

47 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

What effect on gameplay does it have if you just say your challengers are in base to base? Does it have a positive or negative bearing if you don't bother moving them if they are already part of a unit? 

Things like this I tend to need an example for instead of just reading the rules. 'Why X if Y? Because of Z', type of thing.  One day an example will happen naturally and I'll be 'oh, that's why that's a rule', and it's always a kick in the balls when it's you on the receiving end!

As @Canadian_F_H mentioned, some characters have auras; as a night lords player, sevatar has a Fear 2 aura that might be better or worse to reposition for when the combat ends. Maybe it's a Herald/command squad banner with its 6" LD 10 aura. 

Another consideration is for independent characters who might want to leave the unit and trouble shoot somewhere else after the combat ends, usually seen with jump pack and jetbike characters. 

Maybe teleporting will get your character out of los of a scary ranged unit if the combat ends. Maybe it'll get them in los of that unit. 

Lots of potential reasons to follow the rules rather than....not.

 

 

[Valkyrion]

7 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Lots of potential reasons to follow the rules rather than....not.

Well, when you put it like that! 

[Xenith]

17 hours ago, Canadian_F_H said:

That's what I thought too.

To be fair, I thought we were putting characters into B2B out of habit because it looks cool, not the rules...  and the rules also said (at some point) to put challengers into B2B with each other and challenges were very common back then anyways.

In previous editions of 40k that the HH ruleset is based on, characters were part of the unit, but were classed as a separate unit in melee, and thus had to be in B2B with an enemy unit in order to attack, or be attacked in melee. I couldn't find that rule in the HH book, so wanted to make sure that I hadn't just missed it and things have indeed changed! Great for weaker characters that now can only be singled out via precision strikes and challenges. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

5 hours ago, Xenith said:

In previous editions of 40k that the HH ruleset is based on, characters were part of the unit, but were classed as a separate unit in melee, and thus had to be in B2B with an enemy unit in order to attack, or be attacked in melee

Not in 6th or 7th lol. The last time ICs had to be in contact (and could be attacked separately by the opponent) was in 5th. 

[Xenith]

Huh, guess so!