Dark Angels 2,000 for tourney play

[Lukoi]

I really enjoy both RG where I started, and DA, and reading the Horus Heresay books (I am about a quarter thru the 54 books on my kindle) is just reinforcing that.

I went with DA for 9th edition, with a focus on tourney play, and while I acknowledge SM arent in a great place competitively, there are some options out there, and if nothing else, if I can master DA (and maybe RG) as a faction, in spite of never threatening top tables till the meta shifts, that will make for some fun games, and winnable ones at that often enough.

With the loss of TTL as a secondary, and changes to Stubborn Defiance...my list theorycrafting has gone into overdrive while I am deployed here to a lovely spot in Europe.

But no games played sadly lol.

Im going to squeeze in a few via TTS here, and get my Army tweaked to reflect this list below but wanted some feedback, as Im not sure it is capable enough just yet.

Patrol (-2 CP)

- NFORG slot - Voidsmen x6 (for RND, backfield OBJ or screens)

- Lazarus (for the 5++ vs MW and another RRHR1 bubble)

- Infiltrators x8 with a helix (for a surprisingly long last stubborn defiance option with smokescreen as an option, and can be pulled up via the guerilla tactics for more RND access)

- RW Apothecary (-1 CP) Chief, Selfless Healer

- Multi Melta Attack Bike

- Multi Melta Land Speeder

- Eliminators with bolt carbine, las fusil

- Eradicators x6 with HMR, MM that get combat squadded.

DeathWing Vanguard (0 CP after refund)

- Azrael, Warlord no trait

- Interogator Chaplain in TDA (-1 CP) Chief, Wise orator

- Relic Terms x5, LC, combi bolter, reaper cannon

- Relic Terms x5, same deal

- Relic Terms x10, same deal but seargent has the no cost power sword (will prob do same in other squads), and one guy has a chain fist due to left over points.

---------~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So my expectation here is to take stubborn defiance on almost all maps, minus the one that denies infiltration (and maybe even then, but it is a five point swing for missing that first turn!).

RND with the voidsmen (6 so they auto pass), a squad of relics or a pulled up infiltrator in the second enemy quarter, or where that isnt practical map wise, RTB when it is the better option.

With the new write up for Stubborn Defiance, it seems like an OBSEC termie unit can march up and replace the infiltrators, freeing up some options.

I have the bike, speeder for added MM shots, speed, and as cheap feeder units for oath of moment (if I dont see a better third option).  One jets up to claim center and take a pop shot while the other hides.  It likely dies, rinse and repeat.  All while some termies march up the center.

The 10 man gets combat squadded into a deepstrik package with the better melee options, and the other five are double reaper cannon (good for defending an SD objective etc).  

I place one to two relic squads into deepstrik with the chaplain, who will use commanding oratory upon arrival to autopass canticle of hate for the charge bonus.

Az has one wing, the side of the board with infils (to give them 4++ vs ranged), a combat squaded half of eradicators and the eliminators.  

Laz is on the other side (and these two wings are intended to be close so there is some overlap during any push up the board)  giving more of the MW bubble to the relics on that side or pressing center/midboard.

Erads are the only potential targets for transhuman. Infils rely on hiding, smokescreen, helix and their plussed up number to last.  Elims rely on their fire and fade mechanic, cloaks on terrain, and range to be durable.  

Thoughts? Critiques? Previously lists included the anti infantry Talonmaster with arbiters gaze, but I swapped it to increase my terminator count.

List should start with 4cp, with one very often being spent on voidsmen in strat reserve for RND (or one of the eradicators as an "arrive and pop someone," threat) so I am used to starting with 3cp in actual practice.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Lukoi

[Lukoi]

Starting to wonder if the list is just that bad, just too "boilerplate," or we just arent big on list/gameplan discussions here lol.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Sorry for the lack of response, I personally can't comment on the efficiency nor effectiveness of the Primaris because I have no experience with them. But surely someone can help.

[Lukoi]

No worries at all Stobz, thanks.

So your matched play lists are all first born then.  I imagine with named characters, DW, RW, that really isnt a problem for DA at all.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yep, although I rarely play now, and not in tournaments for a couple of years, I  can pretty much just use our supplement against mates no problem. 

 

[Lukoi]

So with the schedule finally getting a little more solidified here in Poland, I managed to get a couple of games via TTS, and figured I'd drop a quick note here on the most recent one that ran all 5 turns versus Harlies.

My opponent took a light saedeth list, with Shadowseer, Death Jester, Troupe Master, and Solitaire for characters; all troupes, two sets of skyweaver bikes, Void Reavers x 5, and 3 x Star weavers.

We played recover the relics (wish I'd taken screenshots in hind sight), with a fairly decent mix of terrain common to the TTS standard maps out there.  In the center was  a "forcefield," piece of terrain that gave dense cover (-1 HR) shooting through it. Attached is a pic of the map itself.  

His secondaries were RTB, Deadly Performance, Weave the Veil

Mine were Stubborn Defiance, RTB, and since I cannot autonomously determine my third (I'm working on that in the list build, but so far, no great solutions stick out to me), Oath of Moment which I do not like.

Key take aways from the game (I eked out a win 86-71, but did not take lead till 4th turn):

• swapping the LS for another bike -- the speeder not having core just bothered me.  It's slightly tougher, and made it three turns, but other than absorb shots, did nothing for me.  Used the excess points, dropped an infil, and adding a 6th terminator to one of the squads.
• I'm torn on Lazarus vs Ezekial -- I just come away feeling Laz does more for me, and does give the 5++ vs MW (not that I needed that here) bubble.  Zeke is awesome, I admit.  I toy with the idea of trading Laz for Zeke, 
• I have added the Voidsmen primarily for RND, or rear screening.  I'd like a third, autonomously selected secondary, like a psychic one -- but spending 115 on Zeke and then using him for psychic actions x5 turns isn't a good return on investment (and a regular librarian doesn't cut the mustard at 90pts either).  I could go imperium psyker, but that negates the voidsmen, which fundamentally puts me back in the "built for 2, not quite 3 secondaries," conundrum again.  I really hate leaving the issue to circumstance each game tho.  

More list tinkering is apparently needed.

 

 

[Lukoi]

So, the lack of a third built-in secondary finally bothered me enough to tweak the list again.  Additionally, squeezing in a couple of games via TTS reinforced the need for a 3^rd secondary to be planned for, even if it’s not great.  And obviously I can discard it if the opponent gives me a better option.

So, with a warpcraft option, RND/RTB, and Stubborn Defiance on 8 of 9 maps, here’s the new list.  Still a patrol + Vanguard.

Patrol (-2 CP, -1 for Inquisitor WLT)

Iquisitor, psyker, with the CP regen WLT (cost me 1 CP, should net 2-3 per game assuming I keep him alive) for only 60pts

Lazarus (5++ vs MW to shore up somewhat, my vulnerability to those, and additional RRHR1 bubble)

Infiltrators x7 with helix (smokescreen, helix, and two spare bodies makes for a relatively durable unit)

RW Apothecary with self-less healer

Scouts with sniper x6 (so these are the RND guys….they cost the same with rifles or without.  Scouts+Inq is 6pts more expensive than a barebones libby + voids, but I get more out of the former imo; and if the opponent ignores the RND scouts, they can shoot while ignoring LOSir – bottom line, a unit that means nothing suddenly forces the opponent to consider wasting shots on them, which the Voidsmen largely didn’t do).

2 x MMABikes

Las Fusil Elims

4 x Erads with HMR/MM

 

Vanguard (to give Termies OBSEC, 6-7 CP)

Azrael (no WLT, +2 CP for being the WL)

Inter-Chap in Termie, Wise Orator (thinking of giving him the upgraded beat stick for one CP, given that the inquisitor will generate CP off of opponents sometimes, so minus 1-2 CP)

10 x Relic Termies with Reapers, Bolters, lightening claws

6 x Relic Termies with same (6^th has a chainfist)

5 x Relic Termies with same

 

My gameplan remains the same but now at least I have the tool/option for a third planned for secondary, and a source of potential denies which I dont normally have.

[phandaal]

Do you have something specific in mind for the Eliminators? If not you can swap them and the two extra Infiltrators for another MM bike and another Eradicator.

If you are going with 10-man unit of Relic Terminators, they can go right up the middle with Azrael and the Chaplain. Chaplain can take Litany of Faith to give out a 5++ for Mortal Wounds if you want to have Ezekiel.

[Lukoi]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:09 AM, phandaal said:

Do you have something specific in mind for the Eliminators? If not you can swap them and the two extra Infiltrators for another MM bike and another Eradicator.

If you are going with 10-man unit of Relic Terminators, they can go right up the middle with Azrael and the Chaplain. Chaplain can take Litany of Faith to give out a 5++ for Mortal Wounds if you want to have Ezekiel.

Appreciate the feedback but my gameplan remains generally the same.  I use termies and chaplain in deepstrike as a mobility threat, and am not looking to hold center necessarily.  Double reaper cannon termies take over stubborn defiance, and the infils can move or get put into reserve with the phobos strategem.

This list does the same as my original but with the added third warpcraft based secondary as an option.

Going to test it in an RTT on the 15th altho I am insanely rusty. And still have to paint up some scouts, and extra termies.

 

[phandaal]

37 minutes ago, Lukoi said:

Appreciate the feedback but my gameplan remains generally the same.

Fair enough. Good luck at the tournament!

[Lukoi]

Thanks. Will try to get some games in prior to, and put some observations here.  

[FarFromSam]

I've found prim int chap on bike great for giving DS'ing Terminators the charge bonus turn two.  I saw you have one on foot.  Also, are Talonmasters with a command squad hiding still a thing?