Primaris Sword Brethren Get Free Power Swords?

[The Emperors Champion22]

So i was making a list on the app and noticed that the power swords for sword brethren dont cost any points to upgrade, but every other weapon upgrade does cost points (except chainswords).

Is this a bug or did i miss a balance dataslate change somewhere?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I believe they are 3 points per model.

[Marshal Reinhard]

power swords becoming free was a big hoopla a slight way back (few months?)... partly because they in essence made chainswords obsolete?

[Emicus]

3 points per sword 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

And well worth it.

[The Emperors Champion22]

3 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

power swords becoming free was a big hoopla a slight way back (few months?)... partly because they in essence made chainswords obsolete?

I only remember the crusader squad getting the free options, i never saw anything related to the sword brethren.

[The Emperors Champion22]

4 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I believe they are 3 points per model.

Here i took a screenshot

[Medjugorje]

its just for the sword brother in a Primaris crusader squad which can have PS for free. The normal Primaris Sword Brethren squad still have to pay 3 points. 

And hope they dont make them for free - I think you should have an price advantage for SB with chainswords. 

I think GW have to change the datasheet or improve it instead of make them cheaper.

[The Emperors Champion22]

2 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

its just for the sword brother in a Primaris crusader squad which can have PS for free. The normal Primaris Sword Brethren squad still have to pay 3 points. 

And hope they dont make them for free - I think you should have an price advantage for SB with chainswords. 

I think GW have to change the datasheet or improve it instead of make them cheaper.

I wish they wouldve made them at least have the exploding 6s stratagem as an ability on their datasheet instead. 
 

really though i was hoping for a sanguinary guard/deathwing knights equivalent. Like WS2+, 3W, 2+ save, and master crafted power swords. Make them 35 points to compete with bladeguard.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

S5 AP3 is still quite good, wounding most things at worse on 5+.

[Karhedron]

8 hours ago, The Emperors Champion22 said:

really though i was hoping for a sanguinary guard/deathwing knights equivalent. Like WS2+, 3W, 2+ save, and master crafted power swords. Make them 35 points to compete with bladeguard.

Do they need to compete with Bladeguard though? BGVs are still a decent choice for Templars. If you bumped Sword Brethren up, you would have 2 very similar units in terms of capabilities. Currently, SB cost around 2/3 the price of BGVs and can be fielded where BGVs might be overkill.

The basic problem with SB is the same as Veteran Intercessors. The increased capabilities are not enough to offset the increased price, the loss of ObjSec and no longer fulfilling the Troops requirement. SBs are slightly better in that their melee loadout allows them to leverage their +1A slightly better. 

[Medjugorje]

10 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

S5 AP3 is still quite good, wounding most things at worse on 5+.

was on four tournaments last weeks and i swear that dmg2 is heavily needed AND its on the table everywhere. There are so much abilies that let you just hit on 4s or dont allow you rerolls to hit or wound in combination with -1 to hit or to wound... PSB need something BIG.

@Karhedron BGV are tough but slow. PSB could be there for output but even this is better by BGV with their swords have dmg2. There is just one point where PSB are better then BGV in terms of output - when your opponent have -1dmg then PSB are equal but cheaper. If PSB could have access to advnace + charge and/or far better output (ws2+ and far more attacks) then I would play both.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Medjugorje

[Emicus]

Let them have more weapon options... All hammers please! Then a couple more attacks and maybe a bonus to charge.

[Medjugorje]

I wont think that could happen. GW want to have a kit which allows you to build everything you could play on the TT.

 

A bonus to the charge would be Advance + charge. A thing i really miss that much and one of the greatest things why I dont like our new supplement that much.

[Tokugawa]

They are just victim of rules creep. Brethen is 2021 new release kits and has W2. Chosen is 2022 new release kits and has W3(and A4). 

 

If Brethen was released later, guess who would be W2 and who would be W3?

[9x19 Parabellum]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:12 PM, Emicus said:

Let them have more weapon options... All hammers please! Then a couple more attacks and maybe a bonus to charge.

 

Problem is it kinda doesn't work to have a unit called SWORD brethren and then incentivize/allow them to take every weapon BUT an actual sword.

As others have said, they need something else: WS2, advance and charge, 1x per game fight twice, fight on death.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It won’t happen since you’ve got to use what comes in the box but an extra attack and/or wound be quite noice.

[Medjugorje]

from a competitve view: Its necessary for a unit to get their job done. PSB can deliver that (if you see their job as killing smaller units) on average but too often their variance of probability distribution is too high - even with Expl.6s it depends too much on your ability to throw 6s. With rerolls to hit or WS2+ this would be different but normally all the sources for that are too pricey and are much more worth it on units which have similar or (far) higher output BUT have so much more durability.

 

And thats their secound point. In genereal I would say they have the "space marine syndrom" problem. In 40k you take units at best for their speciality in ONE spectrum.

Incubi are the best example for an extrem --> incredible output for low cost. Fast (7"M + adv.+charge + good fast transports) but they die when you look at them.

Terminators are tough, many wounds but a bit slow and you have to pay for their toughness but if you pay for buffs then more wounds, better saves will benefit for it.

The fact that our relic bearer buffs (icon) does help models with stormshields so much more (BGV) / Crux obsidion --> models with 3 or 4 wounds. 

 

So they are too expensive for a trading unit but too much superior units which outperform them in their ability for input.

[Tokugawa]

Well, version updated. They get every wargear option free(and still mediocre at best). 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Why are they mediocre?

[Marshal Reinhard]

They should've gotten a 3rd wound to be in line with most other marine elites but otherwise are in the same boat as before. 

 

Utterly pointless to give them chainswords though.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

BGV and terminators are the only 3W  vets that come to mind.

[Medjugorje]

chosen have  3 wounds and exact same stateline as Sword brethren. Before this dataslate they had AoC and were not seen in tournament lists.

 

 

And even they would be okay - there are other options which outclass them still.

Like i said previous. Their problem is the variance 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance

 

which is way too high for them although they are very good on average against some units.  then dmg1 makes them less good against many opponents.

 

And all that wouldnt be a problem IF they had a 3rd wound. Without AoC you will see Space Marines drop like  flies

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have always been a big fan of storm shields and continued to pay points for them while we had AoC. I play a lot vs CSM so AoC was very much a double edged sword. Storm shields will always have a place… there are a lot of factions that could tear right though AoC. So I guess it’s time to start ripping off arms again.

 

The thing about a third wound is it should be for all veteran units, not just some chosen units for whatever reason. I know players who swear by SB and they just got better, so while I don’t use them I trust what my friends tell me. If Chosen aren’t seeing much playing time I doubt it would make much difference for us, except that we can default to a 5++.

Edited January 7, 2023 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[Medjugorje]

CSM have way better buffs because of their newer codex book but still you dont see chosen. I doubt SB can carry anything. You can take them and perform well but not because of them.