HH 2.0 Elite of the Imperial Army: Solar Auxilia Tactica

[WolfLogic]

12 hours ago, TheTrans said:

So anyone done anything fun with Solar Aux after the release, or is it all of us just looking at a gutted list and army trying out how to compete in someway against the power armoured hordes that still kill mooks with just as much reckless abandon as 1.0? 

I haven't played but personally, I would just ask my opponent to recognize that Solar Aux isn't in the best place and to tailor their list accordingly. As long as I'm not getting swept off the table turn 1 I'm going to have fun playing and chatting. That's my take anyways

[TheTrans]

I honestly feel like Solar Aux needs a %age based handicap given to them or something, given the amount of Heavy units that slog across the board now because there isn't any decent artillery to kill them, I feel lasguns could be better at killing Termies than big, good one shot items. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

On 2/1/2023 at 10:36 PM, TheTrans said:

I honestly feel like Solar Aux needs a %age based handicap given to them or something, given the amount of Heavy units that slog across the board now because there isn't any decent artillery to kill them, I feel lasguns could be better at killing Termies than big, good one shot items. 

 

Uh, you're kinda not wrong lol. Theres a slightly higher chance of a las shot causing a failed save than a non ap2 blast into heavy. Though the blasts mostly instant kill, so its still more likely for a battle cannon to kill a Terminator than a las gun.

 

But if that lasgun rapidfires or is a rifle and uses the heavy 2 mode then you suddenly have more of a chance to kill a Terminator with a lasgun.

[TheTrans]

So I just got around to reading the cyclops rules...

 

Wow...

[Dark Legionnare]

So. Got around to playing a Saturday game at 3500 using the panoptica points adjustments.

With these I barely, and I mean BARELY was able to tie the game 2 to 2 VP. Owing to PoF giving their team 1VP for a Baneblade and Aux always going to be losing "Attrition" unless some rules changes change each Force-Org tercio to count as just one attrition loss.

That was with ostensibly an extra 650-700pts (would have to go double check my math) afforded from the panoptica adjustments and AP3/massive on the baneblade main gun.

I always "knew" aux had it rough in 2.0, but hot damn was I astonished at how bad it was in practice when playing a balanced list that isn't just "spam vanquishers".

The "barely" came from the Legate with his 3++ and 2+ heavy artificer armor + paragon blade managing to luckily win a multicombat where he got charged by two wounded tac squads and a terminator unit (all missing their ID weapons who had been sniped by a vindicare in the preceding two turns) by 4, causing all three units to route.

I'm not sure how you could stand even a fighting change without panop points adjusts without going hard (read: near, if not actually, spamming them) on destroyer rapiers and or vanquishers.  Absolutely nothing was capable of stopping the contemptors on the other side of the field, especially not worth risking the return fire from the four-lascannon one.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Brother Sutek]

Say that's what put my army on hold. I can't throw money at hobbies like I used to. Even with 3rd party 3D printed stand ins it's still a lot for the army. Anything stand out as significantly better with their rules? I'll have to give them a third read when I get home.

[Dark Legionnare]

On 9/18/2023 at 10:30 PM, Brother Sutek said:

Say that's what put my army on hold. I can't throw money at hobbies like I used to. Even with 3rd party 3D printed stand ins it's still a lot for the army. Anything stand out as significantly better with their rules? I'll have to give them a third read when I get home.

Honestly, not "terribly."  The panop changes at least allow you to use an army from 1.0.

In my case my total army/force to draw from consists of: four dracosans, two Leman Russes, 3 basillisk, tons of foot lads (120: 60 las, 20 flamer, 20 axe, 20 volkite), four rapiers, thunderbolt, baneblade (octoblade magnetized), and 6 ogryns. (Technically there's a marauder bomber too but I'd never put that animal on a table.)

Without Panop the basilisks are absolutely worthless, same for the baneblade.  The points changes alone are the big deal. I BARELY had enough firepower to survive, if I was 700 pts short, that would've been the baneblade and two squads of guys.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Brother Sutek]

13 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

Honestly, not "terribly."  The panop changes at least allow you to use an army from 1.0.

In my case my total army/force to draw from consists of: four dracosans, two Leman Russes, 3 basillisk, tons of foot lads (120: 60 las, 20 flamer, 20 axe, 20 volkite), four rapiers, thunderbolt, baneblade (octoblade magnetized), and 6 ogryns. (Technically there's a marauder bomber too but I'd never put that animal on a table.)

Without Panop the basilisks are absolutely worthless, same for the baneblade.  The points changes alone are the big deal. I BARELY had enough firepower to survive, if I was 700 pts short, that would've been the baneblade and two squads of guys.

It's the usual change what is good to promote sales... I don't like super heavies as a general thing due to in the past their being too good at low level games but for SA they were almost needed to be able to combat Marines. I wanted to build an all around force that wasn't just a gunline but GW doesn't want that and honestly marines should be able to smash small units with no problem. That being said I don't want to be forced to spam rapier and Vanquisher and never use real artillery or dracosan. I'll run this by my group, hopefully they will be fine with it as it's not like they are OP now.

[Dark Legionnare]

On 10/3/2023 at 10:37 AM, Brother Sutek said:

It's the usual change what is good to promote sales... I don't like super heavies as a general thing due to in the past their being too good at low level games but for SA they were almost needed to be able to combat Marines. I wanted to build an all around force that wasn't just a gunline but GW doesn't want that and honestly marines should be able to smash small units with no problem. That being said I don't want to be forced to spam rapier and Vanquisher and never use real artillery or dracosan. I'll run this by my group, hopefully they will be fine with it as it's not like they are OP now.

Not even remotely.

Adding breaching to the basilisk was basically a non-issue, and the Baneblade AP changes were nice, but could still be cover-saved away like anything AP3 or 2 in 1.0 that didn't have "ignores cover."

It was honestly a very, very balanced slugging match of a game using panop points and rules.  We all had fun, and found it very well balanced.  We all know without those hundreds of compensatory points without spamming vanquishers and such I would've been absolutely hosed one-sidedly in a way reminiscent of 8th & 9th ed 40k usually being decided by turn 2 or 3.

[Brother Sutek]

9 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

Not even remotely.

Adding breaching to the basilisk was basically a non-issue, and the Baneblade AP changes were nice, but could still be cover-saved away like anything AP3 or 2 in 1.0 that didn't have "ignores cover."

It was honestly a very, very balanced slugging match of a game using panop points and rules.  We all had fun, and found it very well balanced.  We all know without those hundreds of compensatory points without spamming vanquishers and such I would've been absolutely hosed one-sidedly in a way reminiscent of 8th & 9th ed 40k usually being decided by turn 2 or 3.

I'll break topic for one comment about 40k 8th edition.  I have played IG for decades and love balanced forces, armored assault and infantry heavy. The hate my army got even with nerf after nerf after nerf, was disgusting. In HH I want to be able to run all three styles again. I don't want to spam one specific tank as it's the only good one.  If these rules can help that then I'm all in! Now if we could lower the Dracosan points...

[Dark Legionnare]

4 hours ago, Brother Sutek said:

I'll break topic for one comment about 40k 8th edition.  I have played IG for decades and love balanced forces, armored assault and infantry heavy. The hate my army got even with nerf after nerf after nerf, was disgusting. In HH I want to be able to run all three styles again. I don't want to spam one specific tank as it's the only good one.  If these rules can help that then I'm all in! Now if we could lower the Dracosan points...

Good news!

 

In the panop points, they're also at a healthy points level. And, the demolisher upgrade is not an absolutely borderline BS ludicrous 50 pts.

 

That's where a large chunk of my list's points recovery came from, three dracos with demos.

 

I have a krieg force too, that depending on my whims for a game migrates between:

 

-artillery battery centric with supporting/pushing forces

 

-infantry & cav (both storm chimeras with grens and mounted death riders) centric with supporting forces

 

-armored company with 7 LR's, a macharius, & malcador with supporting forces.

 

-Or some general amalgum of sll three. But thise are the three main "theme" chunks I built into the whole collection

 

So I feel your pain about the nerf and hate. Everyone's always suffering the sins of 5th ed guard to this day, haha.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Brother Sutek]

12 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

Good news!

 

In the panop points, they're also at a healthy points level. And, the demolisher upgrade is not an absolutely borderline BS ludicrous 50 pts.

 

That's where a large chunk of my list's points recovery came from, three dracos with demos.

 

I have a krieg force too, that depending on my whims for a game migrates between:

 

-artillery battery centric with supporting/pushing forces

 

-infantry & cav (both storm chimeras with grens and mounted death riders) centric with supporting forces

 

-armored company with 7 LR's, a macharius, & malcador with supporting forces.

 

-Or some general amalgum of sll three. But thise are the three main "theme" chunks I built into the whole collection

 

So I feel your pain about the nerf and hate. Everyone's always suffering the sins of 5th ed guard to this day, haha.

Yeah 50 points on an already costly vehicle was a slap in the face, esp with the nerf to the demo. It might have been 5th when I used my Valkyrie and Vendetta with Vulture backup that was hated. I used my old plastic Stormtroopers as vets with plasma and melta in the list and I still laugh that the store manager thought they were non GW and had to be shown the old range. Sorry man I'm old lol. Those were units I'd like to see come to the game as I love Vultures and company.

[MichaelCarmine]

Hey there, got a question.

Since my dream of a Militia Army got stomped on when the new rules dropped, i might play them as Solar. Although i don't feel quite comfortable using Basic Krieg Infantry to represent Void Armor Infantry...

 

Regarding my question - The Armored Tercio gives me the Option to field a Command Battle Russ, which i have to assign to a Squadron of either Strike- or Assault-Tanks.

Now, they then can, ofcourse, benefit from his Cognis Signum since everybody schould be alright with skipping a Battlecannon for 3 BS4 Vanquishers.

The Command Tank also has the option to take a Flare Shield - since, when being shot at, i would choose which Tank would receive the Hits, i could just, for example, turn all my Russes to the Side, while the Command Tank would face with his front to the most lethal AT Weapons and he  would be able to tank it with its essentially Armor 15 (16 against blast) Front, even if he is the furthest away (but not out of sight) am i right?

 

Also - can i mix Strike- and Assault-Squadrons in an Armored Tercio? Battlescribe seems to not allow that, though i do not see a rule that prevents me from it... ^^

[Brother Sutek]

Can't answer all your questions as I'm not as good as I was last edition due to not having time to play. As far as I know you can pick whatever tank but the caveat being you have to remove wounds on that model first from any remaining wounds. Not 100% on that so you'll need to double check that. 

[MichaelCarmine]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:57 AM, Brother Sutek said:

Can't answer all your questions as I'm not as good as I was last edition due to not having time to play. As far as I know you can pick whatever tank but the caveat being you have to remove wounds on that model first from any remaining wounds. Not 100% on that so you'll need to double check that. 

Yeah, thats right, but it'l be 4 aditional Hullpoints, where even Lascannons (outside of IWs) only achieve glances against it's frontarmor.

Additionaly, if for example a Squad with blasts would want to punish the squadron for showing them the side-, or even reararmor, they would then have to try to pen effectively Armor 16. =]

[The Scorpion]

On 2/8/2023 at 6:45 PM, TheTrans said:

So I just got around to reading the cyclops rules...

 

Wow...

'Wow' in a good or in a bad way?

 

On 11/20/2023 at 10:33 AM, MichaelCarmine said:

Hey there, got a question.

Since my dream of a Militia Army got stomped on when the new rules dropped, i might play them as Solar. Although i don't feel quite comfortable using Basic Krieg Infantry to represent Void Armor Infantry...

 

Regarding my question - The Armored Tercio gives me the Option to field a Command Battle Russ, which i have to assign to a Squadron of either Strike- or Assault-Tanks.

Now, they then can, ofcourse, benefit from his Cognis Signum since everybody schould be alright with skipping a Battlecannon for 3 BS4 Vanquishers.

The Command Tank also has the option to take a Flare Shield - since, when being shot at, i would choose which Tank would receive the Hits, i could just, for example, turn all my Russes to the Side, while the Command Tank would face with his front to the most lethal AT Weapons and he  would be able to tank it with its essentially Armor 15 (16 against blast) Front, even if he is the furthest away (but not out of sight) am i right?

 

Also - can i mix Strike- and Assault-Squadrons in an Armored Tercio? Battlescribe seems to not allow that, though i do not see a rule that prevents me from it... ^^

What units and rules were you suing for your militia list?

 

On 2/3/2023 at 7:34 AM, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Uh, you're kinda not wrong lol. Theres a slightly higher chance of a las shot causing a failed save than a non ap2 blast into heavy. Though the blasts mostly instant kill, so its still more likely for a battle cannon to kill a Terminator than a las gun.

 

But if that lasgun rapidfires or is a rifle and uses the heavy 2 mode then you suddenly have more of a chance to kill a Terminator with a lasgun.

Is the state of templates really that dismal?

[MichaelCarmine]

20 hours ago, The Scorpion said:

What units and rules were you suing for your militia list?

I've build a Bodyguard Squad mith MG42 Style Heavy Stubbers, that i'm really proud of, 'cause they could take 7 in a squad - Now its one.... I could just use them as heavy fire support, bu thgen i would have to scrape of all the command insignia and armor, thats something i won't do to the models.

Also had Leman Russ Squadrons planned - Now i have to "waste" a Provenance to take them in Squadrons.

Gorgon Super Heavy Transports could be taken as Dedicated Transports - now its just a Heavy Support Choice, which also confronts with the Leman Russes.

Arvus Lighters could be taken as dedicated Transports - now its just a Fast Attack Choice.

I now need a Provenance to give Grenadiers BF4 back.

 

Thats just some of the things, they did wrong on the Militia. Just to get the Stock options of last Edition, i need so spend both my provenances. No chance to further individualize the army like you could before. 

Don't even care about what they've done to the Cannons, but everything else sucks...

[Gorgoff]

On 12/13/2023 at 1:01 PM, MichaelCarmine said:

I've build a Bodyguard Squad mith MG42 Style Heavy Stubbers, that i'm really proud of, 'cause they could take 7 in a squad - Now its one.... I could just use them as heavy fire support, bu thgen i would have to scrape of all the command insignia and armor, thats something i won't do to the models.

Also had Leman Russ Squadrons planned - Now i have to "waste" a Provenance to take them in Squadrons.

Gorgon Super Heavy Transports could be taken as Dedicated Transports - now its just a Heavy Support Choice, which also confronts with the Leman Russes.

Arvus Lighters could be taken as dedicated Transports - now its just a Fast Attack Choice.

I now need a Provenance to give Grenadiers BF4 back.

 

Thats just some of the things, they did wrong on the Militia. Just to get the Stock options of last Edition, i need so spend both my provenances. No chance to further individualize the army like you could before. 

Don't even care about what they've done to the Cannons, but everything else sucks...

But in the other hand they added new provenances which are cool (Ogryns or Cavalery for example) and more options to the army list as well. I won't try to argue that it was absolutely wront to take away the heavy stubbers from the command Squad or the Gorgon as a DT.

That felt unnecessary. Since they remade the arvus i wonder why it isn't a DT anymore. I don't understand that. Or why the carnodon isn't in the list or the bikes from gene stealer cults. They added the cargo hauler though. 

We don't have ro talk about templates as well. Apparently they thought that every template over 3" is a monster and way to effective. 

At least militia is the army which can field baneblades without crippling the army and you can play dozens of Leman russ if you want to but yeah there were some weird decisions. 

[Brother Sutek]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:55 PM, Gorgoff said:

But in the other hand they added new provenances which are cool (Ogryns or Cavalery for example) and more options to the army list as well. I won't try to argue that it was absolutely wront to take away the heavy stubbers from the command Squad or the Gorgon as a DT.

That felt unnecessary. Since they remade the arvus i wonder why it isn't a DT anymore. I don't understand that. Or why the carnodon isn't in the list or the bikes from gene stealer cults. They added the cargo hauler though. 

We don't have ro talk about templates as well. Apparently they thought that every template over 3" is a monster and way to effective. 

At least militia is the army which can field baneblades without crippling the army and you can play dozens of Leman russ if you want to but yeah there were some weird decisions. 

Just a small addition is removing the weapon upgrade from the Argus. I mean I know the shuttle is OP and gamebreaking with a gun but... 

[Gorgoff]

1 hour ago, Brother Sutek said:

Just a small addition is removing the weapon upgrade from the Argus. I mean I know the shuttle is OP and gamebreaking with a gun but... 

I gues they did it because the model comes without any weapons but it is still a strange decision. 

[Brother Sutek]

On 12/26/2023 at 11:37 PM, Gorgoff said:

I gues they did it because the model comes without any weapons but it is still a strange decision. 

It's that painful moment where the limited usefulness is made even less. Gw don't you want my money!?!

[Noserenda]

Just remembering they definitely discontinued all the aircraft weapons didnt they? :( 

[The Scorpion]

18 hours ago, Brother Sutek said:

It's that painful moment where the limited usefulness is made even less. Gw don't you want my money!?!

They could've allowed it to have hunter-killer missiles at least.

But oh well, at least we will have the new Sentinel soon. Plastic voidsmen are a go!

 

[Brother Sutek]

13 hours ago, The Scorpion said:

They could've allowed it to have hunter-killer missiles at least.

But oh well, at least we will have the new Sentinel soon. Plastic voidsmen are a go!

 

Since pretty much every vehicle gets that option you'd think it would as well... 

[MichaelCarmine]

For everyone living under a rock... xD

 

Well damn!  I'll take 3 Battlegroups to go and make 'em extra spicy!